The Arms Compendium

[Pigglix]

Trauma and Rend build should be close enough from each other that will come down to preference.

Now as in Arms VS Fury idk, to me i simm higher as fury because im itemized for fury, but even then, my arms specs its not so far behind, like, 30k behind i guess, before the 4% nerf, but with the trauma nerf rolling in.

[orgonutil]

BC in execute phase with t20: Bladestorm or execute rotation inside battle cry?

[Deleted]

I'm getting best results on single target now with a build that uses Overpower, Rend and Titanic Might, but this is may only be doable with the legendary gloves (Archavon's Heavy Hand) that reduce Mortal Strike's rage cost.

Priority I use:

1. CS/WB
(1b. I assume Execute would go here with Ayala's Stone Heart procs, but I don't have that legendary)
2. MS (I even prioritize this over CS, if it comes off CD a few split seconds before CS, which can happen if no procs)
3. Rend if <2.4s or not applied
4. OP
5. Slam

Execute is the same as in Trauma build.

The reason why this works well for me: Not using Dauntless talent means high rage costs for Rend and Slam. Both will reset CS more often that way (<- sry, this is wrong as explained in posts below). By keeping cheaper MS (via legendary gloves) pretty much on cooldown I save (the necessary) extra rage for (the more costly) Rends and Slams, while Overpower helps managing rage in case of failed CS procs while still doing high damage.

Typical course of rotation: If MS fails to reset CS, either Rend with its high rage cost will do so after MS. If not, I can recuperate while an unused OP proc is used and then either Slam or next MS will reset CS.

It's also important that if you get "chain procs" on CS from MS not to put Rend in between, even if the dot falls off, since Rend has the highest propability of resetting CS but lower dps per activation than MS.

[Anuibus]

Not using Dauntless talent means high rage costs for Rend and Slam. Both will reset CS more often that way. By keeping cheaper MS (via legendary gloves) pretty much on cooldown I save the necessary extra rage for the more costly Rends and Slams, while Overpower helps managing rage in case of failed CS procs while still doing high damage.

I don't know why people still don't understand that tactician uses the base rage cost of the ability, so using dauntless doesn't decrease your chance to reset cs.

[Deleted]

I don't know why people still don't understand that tactician uses the base rage cost of the ability, so using dauntless doesn't decrease your chance to reset cs.

My bad, sry for not looking that up. Either way I generally get better results using Overpower over Dauntless when testing in practice.

However, I'm no theory crafter so my findings are certainly debatable from that point of view and those who trust in it to be the best basis for playing can probably put me on ignore at this point ;-)

I do excessive dummy testing, meaning about 30 3-5-10 minute parses on a dummy for each build and then compare results and, if results* suggest that, adjust rotation based on calculating DPS per activation and overall DPS contribution of each ability used and finding the balance between the two.

I am aware that this is an unusal and debatable method, but it has led me to optimizing DPS rotations on several classes on other MMOs before, so I stuck to that. It's rather time consuming, but since I like dummy testing, I don't mind that. The good thing is, that I can rely on a build and rotation derived from that will reliably work in the field.

[Archimtiros]

I don't know why people still don't understand that tactician uses the base rage cost of the ability, so using dauntless doesn't decrease your chance to reset cs.

This. Same with the gloves (why would anyone think Dauntless reduces Tactician but Archavon's doesn't?).

[Deleted]

This. Same with the gloves (why would anyone think Dauntless reduces Tactician but Archavon's doesn't?).

It would have made sense to me if Dauntless affected Tactician with regard to balancing talents: You'd trade a mid frequent direct damage ability against less frequent resets on the core mechanic of the spec. With the gloves I assumed the bonus would be very underwhelming if Tactician was affected by it.

[Archimtiros]

It would have made sense to me if Dauntless affected Tactician with regard to balancing talents: You'd trade a mid frequent direct damage ability against less frequent resets on the core mechanic of the spec. With the gloves I assumed the bonus would be very underwhelming if Tactician was affected by it.

Originally it did work like that, and significantly devalued the talent. It was changed shortly into the beta.

[Deleted]

Originally it did work like that, and significantly devalued the talent. It was changed shortly into the beta.

Interesting, thanks for explaining :-)

The problem I am having with Dauntless is that too many failed procs on CS ultimately lead to a lot of phases of auto attacks in the rotation. Even though OP does not contribute to Tactician it allows the use of more abilities that actually can, after it was used.

I am aware that mathematically the proc chances for CS and OP do not depend on another, every proc or no proc has to be looked at independently. In practice I very very rarely get so unlucky as to not have CS procs AND no OP procs. So OP will often iron out unlucky procs on CS for me (and enabling Slams and MSs after it) and vice versa.

That's what makes this build strong and reliable imo.


EDIT: I edited my first post including the correction you guys made, so the rest of the idea can be discussed independently from that.

[Archimtiros]

Interesting, thanks for explaining :-)

The problem I am having with Dauntless is that too many failed procs on CS ultimately lead to a lot of phases of auto attacks in the rotation. Even though OP does not contribute to Tactician it allows the use of more abilities that actually can, after it was used.

I am aware that mathematically the proc chances for CS and OP do not depend on another, every proc or no proc has to be looked at independently. In practice I very very rarely get so unlucky as to not have CS procs AND no OP procs. So OP will often iron out unlucky procs on CS for me (and enabling Slams and MSs after it) and vice versa.

That's what makes this build strong and reliable imo.


EDIT: I edited my first post including the correction you guys made, so the rest of the idea can be discussed independently from that.

OP is about 0.5% or so behind Dauntless. That might be the difference between rank 10 and rank 50, but it's not going to be the difference between rank 60 and rank 400 or rank 1000. If you like using OP for the proc-gameplay, there's nothing wrong with that; just use it.

[Deleted]

The FoB/Trauma Rota still sounds a bit odd (I see you updated it a little though).

3. MS if SD buff up or NO EP debuffs

So basically I shall apply CS+SD, then when I have 1 EP stack NOT use MS? Instead spam WW to proc another CS which I won't use since SD is still up?

Oh wait, I think I'm getting it. When you have SD up you use MS. But if no SD and 1 or 2 EP stacks, save MS until you can apply SD to go with the stacks?

[raxybest]

Is the FoB/Trauma build still viable after the trauma nerf?

[Rafalga]

Is the FoB/Trauma build still viable after the trauma nerf?

You can check warcraftlogs for relevant info. It is pretty viable but every high parse has the execute ring no exception. Looks like It became even more mandatory.

[Drtydeeds]

The FoB/Trauma Rota still sounds a bit odd (I see you updated it a little though).

So basically I shall apply CS+SD, then when I have 1 EP stack NOT use MS? Instead spam WW to proc another CS which I won't use since SD is still up?

Oh wait, I think I'm getting it. When you have SD up you use MS. But if no SD and 1 or 2 EP stacks, save MS until you can apply SD to go with the stacks?

Really interested in the answer to this.

[Hoeth]

Really interested in the answer to this.

With EP stacks up (even 1, but especially 2) and no SD the opportunity cost of delaying MS is overcome by the increased damage of a EP/SD buffed MS.

As far as Trauma/FoB vs OP/Rend/TM, the second just FEELS better to me. I had no rage starvation with the latter either. Seems like the former really can't compete with the latter without Ayalas either.

[Deleted]

Seems like the former really can't compete with the latter without Ayalas either.

I'm experiencing the same.

[LazyCoding]

The ToS fights seem to be cleave heavy. So FoB does better than Rend there. It gets better and more fun when you put Cleave into rotation which you do when you see at least one add.

[Archimtiros]

The FoB/Trauma Rota still sounds a bit odd (I see you updated it a little though).

So basically I shall apply CS+SD, then when I have 1 EP stack NOT use MS? Instead spam WW to proc another CS which I won't use since SD is still up?

Oh wait, I think I'm getting it. When you have SD up you use MS. But if no SD and 1 or 2 EP stacks, save MS until you can apply SD to go with the stacks?

No; there's an or between the two, not an and.

Your edit is correct. The idea is to take advantage of the multiplicative bonuses when EP is up.

[Bigbazz]

The Ravager based Rend builds that sim like hot garbage but did well in game are showing up on the logs doing pretty decently, outside of Execute phase I was getting better numbers with this build than with any other when I tested in prior weeks. It's a lot weaker in Execute, has a small margin of error and is less flexible than other builds but for sure it seems it's quite capable, if Ravager keeps showing up when people are T20 geared I think for sake of completion you could do a lot more to address Ravager in your guide, .

Also the compendium is still showing to Rend before using CS with TM talented, which makes no sense since not only do you risk wasting a tactition proc but you're doing less rend damage. Archi talked about it above, so I assume a change is in the works?

[Archimtiros]

The Ravager based Rend builds that sim like hot garbage but did well in game are showing up on the logs doing pretty decently, outside of Execute phase I was getting better numbers with this build than with any other when I tested in prior weeks. It's a lot weaker in Execute, has a small margin of error and is less flexible than other builds but for sure it seems it's quite capable, if Ravager keeps showing up when people are T20 geared I think for sake of completion you could do a lot more to address Ravager in your guide, .

Also the compendium is still showing to Rend before using CS with TM talented, which makes no sense since not only do you risk wasting a tactition proc but you're doing less rend damage. Archi talked about it above, so I assume a change is in the works?

Ravager performs well with T19 because of Helm, but much poorer without Helm, or with T20. The guide is written for T20, not T19, so while Ravager is a decent choice, it's quite simply not going to get a lot of attention in the guide. The expectation of T20 is to get T20, and within a week it'll be trivial information in an already bloated document.

Ravager is still strong on multi-target, especially in conjunction with CoF and Pants, which the guide mentions, though that section could be better fleshed out.