Infrastructure Plan Set to Break Trump's Promises. Again.

[melodramocracy]

The long and short here is the usual story. You, the taxpayer, are going to ultimately foot this bill either way. Either through taxes or tolls (though likely both).

The privatization angle certainly does a much better job of lining pockets of the upper echelons while providing little in return, and tends to appeal to silly libertarians who tend to relish the concept of paying 8+ bucks to cross a bridge, as long as they believe they're not forced to contribute to some other road they aren't currently using.

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I understand infrastructure is important for economic stability and movement of goods and basic function of society. However, how does a private company funding it make it bad? Elon Musk apparently wants to go to Mars. Many thought space travel is strictly NASA government business but look at him. (Not profitable but he can do it).. Why do you have such little faith in the private industry? The private industry makes the cars and trucks that go on the roads and USES the infrastructure.

Elon Musk, or anyone else wanting to go to mars is completely un-associated with the running of a nation.

[Mayhem]

Seems like the average Trump supporter actually is happy with tax increases as long as they aren't called taxes.

[Allybeboba]

"But her emails!" Really?

BOOM! There it is!!

[Elegiac]

BOOM! There it is!!

What, pointing our your lot's inability to counter criticism of the Trump regime without deflecting to Clinton despite the fact that she is not in public office?

[Elegiac]

How many people are grateful to have a road free of debris and potholes? You can't demand people drive hybrids, electrics, car pool and require 50mpg engines and then act perplexed when the revenue from gasoline drops. It's almost as if the Bernie crowd truly doesn't grasp economics and cause and effect. Read Friedman. You'll thank me later.

Good thing we invented this fantastic thing called road tolls.

[Deleted]

How many people are grateful to have a road free of debris and potholes? You can't demand people drive hybrids, electrics, car pool and require 50mpg engines and then act perplexed when the revenue from gasoline drops. It's almost as if the Bernie crowd truly doesn't grasp economics and cause and effect. Read Friedman. You'll thank me later.

The tax is also a fixed rate, not a percentage, and hasn't been increased for two decades.
Also, one can fund road maintenance by other means than gasoline taxes.

[Allybeboba]

What, pointing our your lot's inability to counter criticism of the Trump regime without deflecting to Clinton despite the fact that she is not in public office?

Who is this "your lot"?

To answer the question, I stated a while back that those who supported the left side of the political spectrum would end up uttering that phrase more often than those who support the right. Thus far that statement has pretty much come to fruition.

[Belize]

Who is this "your lot"?

To answer the question, I stated a while back that those who supported the left side of the political spectrum would end up uttering that phrase more often than those who support the right. Thus far that statement has pretty much come to fruition.

Your inability to comprehend basic principles such as using "But her emails" as a parody of Conservatives continually deflecting to Clinton this long after the election, never fails to amuse me.

It must be easy living in such a black and white life.

[Allybeboba]

Your inability to comprehend basic principles such as using "But her emails" as a parody of Conservatives continually deflecting to Clinton this long after the election, never fails to amuse me.

It must be easy living in such a black and white life.

The predictability of the political spectrum is well, shall we say, all too predictable. That is how I was able to come up with that easy prediction that came true. One side of the political spectrum simply likes to make fun of people more than the other. They also tend to call other people names more often as well. They also tend to stoop to personal attacks. Thats not saying both sides are guilty of all doing these. One side seems to do it more often than one. We witness on this forum quite often as a matter of fact. The sheer entertainment factor of it is quite inescapable.

[unfilteredJW]

The predictability of the political spectrum is well, shall we say, all too predictable. That is how I was able to come up with that easy prediction that came true. One side of the political spectrum simply likes to make fun of people more than the other. They also tend to call other people names more often as well. They also tend to stoop to personal attacks. Thats not saying both sides are guilty of all doing these. One side seems to do it more often than one. We witness on this forum quite often as a matter of fact. The sheer entertainment factor of it is quite inescapable.

That cross looks heavy.

[Belize]

The predictability of the political spectrum is well, shall we say, all too predictable. That is how I was able to come up with that easy prediction that came true. One side of the political spectrum simply likes to make fun of people more than the other. They also tend to call other people names more often as well. They also tend to stoop to personal attacks. Thats not saying both sides are guilty of all doing these. One side seems to do it more often than one. We witness on this forum quite often as a matter of fact. The sheer entertainment factor of it is quite inescapable.

Don't ever become a catcher for any sport, because you continue to miss the point spectacularly.

[Lenonis]

The predictability of the political spectrum is well, shall we say, all too predictable. That is how I was able to come up with that easy prediction that came true. One side of the political spectrum simply likes to make fun of people more than the other. They also tend to call other people names more often as well. They also tend to stoop to personal attacks. Thats not saying both sides are guilty of all doing these. One side seems to do it more often than one. We witness on this forum quite often as a matter of fact. The sheer entertainment factor of it is quite inescapable.

This observation without qualification of timeframe is incredibly disingenuous.

As is criticizing the use of "But her emails" while completely ignoring the posts that create that response.

Have a great day!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Fugus]

How many people are grateful to have a road free of debris and potholes? You can't demand people drive hybrids, electrics, car pool and require 50mpg engines and then act perplexed when the revenue from gasoline drops. It's almost as if the Bernie crowd truly doesn't grasp economics and cause and effect. Read Friedman. You'll thank me later.

Actually, the Bernie crowd seemed to grasp it more than Clinton and while Trumps seems to grasp it about like Drax the Destroyer and Metaphors (Going from part 1, hasn't seen the sequel yet).

That is why Sanders was actually planning on investing into our infrastructure as well as a healthcare plan that was cheaper with better quality and coverage than what we had under the ACA or Trump/Ryan-Care and a tax plan to actually play for it all and was estimated to potentially balance our budget and have us actually starting to pay down our debt by the end of his second term.

[Matchles]

How many people are grateful to have a road free of debris and potholes? You can't demand people drive hybrids, electrics, car pool and require 50mpg engines and then act perplexed when the revenue from gasoline drops. It's almost as if the Bernie crowd truly doesn't grasp economics and cause and effect. Read Friedman. You'll thank me later.

Perhaps that is why liberal states are developing alternative taxes to incorporate those type of vehicles into paying towards infrastructure. Oregon is currently doing a pilot program where people pay a per mile tax instead of the gas tax. They are also looking into a tax on the sale of new adult bicycles to also contribute to the building and maintenance of roads. You are attacking a straw man.

[Sesshou]

They will be expecting to make a profit. Any thoughts as to what will happen to those prices?

Yup. And it isn't even just the tolls. The new toll road going up near here is internationally funded. They are not only guaranteed a minimum return on the investment (taxpayers pay up to a certain amount if the tolls don't make it), but they limited the addition of other competing roads by essentially imposing a fine should one be built.

[Elegiac]

private business lack the bureaucracy, fraud, waste and abuse common with government organizations.

Someone's clearly never worked in the private sector.

You can't praise globalism and claim open borders on one hand, then be mad when it's possible a foreign company might be able to do something cheaper than an America one. You don't get to have it both ways.

Sure we can. It's called 'accepting being part of a global community while simultaneously believing that infrastructure's owners and financiers should be directly accountable to the public'. They aren't mutually exclusive.

[Matchles]

It's not a strawman. It's a fact that the Federal government, whom provides most of the money for the interstate systems, derives its money primarily through fuel tax. Vehicles are becoming increasingly fuel efficient, and hybrids and electric cars only further limit potential revenue. The states sure as shit aren't going to pony up billions more to repair and maintain the interstate systems. So rather than just increase sales tax or income tax to help cover infrastructure costs, Trump is proposing we in part, privatize some of our roads as private business lack the bureaucracy, fraud, waste and abuse common with government organizations. They won't be obliged to hire union contractors or other unnecessary road blocks.

You can't praise globalism and claim open borders on one hand, then be mad when it's possible a foreign company might be able to do something cheaper than an America one. You don't get to have it both ways.

It is a straw man. You act like no one has thought of this issue and that it is impossible to adjust or change the tax. I'm simply stating that most of the states where hybrid and electric vehicle use are the highest are already addressing the shortfall. The choice isn't between a failing infrastructure or all of use driving SUVs and trucks that get 13-15 mpg.

[Elegiac]

It is a straw man. You act like no one has thought of this issue and that it is impossible to adjust or change the tax. I'm simply stating that most of the states where hybrid and electric vehicle use are the highest are already addressing the shortfall. The choice isn't between a failing infrastructure or all of use driving SUVs and trucks that get 13-15 mpg.

Again, per mile tolling is extremely useful in this case. As is congestion pricing in urban areas, which some cities (looking at you, Los Angeles) desperately need.

[Fugus]

It's not a strawman. It's a fact that the Federal government, whom provides most of the money for the interstate systems, derives its money primarily through fuel tax. Vehicles are becoming increasingly fuel efficient, and hybrids and electric cars only further limit potential revenue. The states sure as shit aren't going to pony up billions more to repair and maintain the interstate systems. So rather than just increase sales tax or income tax to help cover infrastructure costs, Trump is proposing we in part, privatize some of our roads as private business lack the bureaucracy, fraud, waste and abuse common with government organizations. They won't be obliged to hire union contractors or other unnecessary road blocks.

You can't praise globalism and claim open borders on one hand, then be mad when it's possible a foreign company might be able to do something cheaper than an America one. You don't get to have it both ways.

Your best bet would be probably to start charging trucking companies the full cost of the damage their vehicles do to the roads instead of having the other drivers subsidize them through the gas taxes as the truckers cause far more damage to the roads than their gas taxes pay for so either they go back to the rails which gets rid of the damage or they start paying for the damage they do.

And the federal government can address the funding for it as well so long as you don't get those "No new taxes" crowd to actually start doing something constructive for a change. One way to deal with it that has been drafted would be to tax the vehicles per mile driven which has multiple ways to figure it out while another I have heard would be to attach a tax onto the electric fueling stations to pay for it as well as to the electrical grid in general when most vehicles are charged home. There are ways to deal with it.

And, from what I have read, Trump isn't proposing what most think it is. It won't solve the waste and abuse you are talking about and would actually make it worse. His proposal as I have read involves the US tax payer paying the bulk of the costs for the roads with the private company paying like a total of 20% of the total costs or so and then given ownership of the road/bridge to charge access to far into the future. So the tax payer pays for it while the company owns it.

They have ways of dealing with it, giving tax payer funding to private corporations and allowing them to own the finished product is not one of them.

[Rasulis]

I was involved with the South Bay Expressway project in San Diego. The builder South Bay Expressway Partnership spent $843M building the toll road. It opened late 2007 and by 2010, they filed for Chapter 11. San Diego Association of Government (SANDAG) ended up buying it for a sweet deal of $341M.

So I guess that is good. Not to mention for 2 years, we got to keep 3 lab technicians working around the clock in the lab, and 4 inspectors out in the field.