Chaos theory overrated?

[ZaraniaWoW]

so people actually think they can believe theorycrafters and sims 100%?

According to sims shoulder+ring have the highest dps for most people, but according to some theory crafters shoulders aren't optimal in most situations so belt>shoulders. whereas according to logs. the top 100 parses of krosus/spellblade/trilliax/anomaly etc, the usage of shoulders is about the same if not higher than belt.

The actual performance in raids> any sims and theories

the only reason i see people hating on shoulders is probably because being flexible of your cd usage is too much thinking for them.

all they want is meta jump on boss and REEEEEEE use whatever shines on their action bar.. kek

As one of the people doing the theorycrafting, I rather disagree with this statement. Shoulders are quite good when the timings work for them. And with the current speed kill timings and gear progression (so you have higher crit and haste for more fury spent per second than before) the shoulders have improved a lot from when we first hit the patch.

Using a 152-168 kill timing, which is in the range of what most of the Trilliax kill times are:
https://imgur.com/a/afoYs

However, when you change the kill time to be 238-263:
https://imgur.com/a/8qTaR - you'll notice that if you get very lucky you can get an extra meta in with the shoulders still, which is why their top end is the highest, but the average case they don't.

You'll notice on my listing for pure ST that shoulders are very high up:
https://imgur.com/a/8gNSv

I've never said that shoulders aren't good. Just that you have to be aware of fight timings and that if you're bad at CD timing then you'll not use them well.

[Deleted]

Then where do I find the correct client version? Who for the love of Pete would host a bad client in the downloads section of their own website?

If you're saying I should be using the Nightly build, I am.

Simbot nightly build is fine. On the official simcraft website the nightly builds are fairly hidden, saw a lot of ppl complaining they got bad results similar to yours and it was found out, that is was due to having an outdated version. Could be just your gear not being suited towards using CT or not having a good replacement item. The sim dps of CT is very reliant on having a fair amount of haste and usually not ahead enough to not make having bad replacements be an issue.

[Deleted]

It's only bis in tomb with t20, probably has been said numerous of times now (skimmed the thread) but just throwing it out there anyway.

[ehxy]

Ya demon hunters have really been around soooo long. Stop crying your eyes out, demon hunters are fine.

Your ability to read is definitely not equal to your understanding.
Get on my level or go back to school.

[Sylvaeres]

Your ability to read is definitely not equal to your understanding.
Get on my level or go back to school.

You basically made a paint by the numbers response and probably thought to yourself "I sure showed him". I can practically see the cheesy smile on your face. As far as your oh so eloquent response, I did read, and it seemed like a ton of Qs with no real substance and extra lubrication

[prydzz]

Any fight lasting 2:30 and on the shoulders surpass the belt. One full extra meta is worth more damage than the shit you get from the Cinidaria. Period. Sims show that is true. Logs show that is true. Common sense shows that as true.

I do not have either of the new legendaries. Doing a bit of guesswork along with napkin math, I would guess that the shoulders probably outperform the new cloak as well. I do believe people are overrating the cloak - just as they overrate the garbage known as Cinidaria.

I am very interested in seeing results with the new ring though. I could be wrong - but I do not believe the current build of SimC uses the new ring correctly. I am actually quite excited to get my hands on one to fully test it. I do believe it has some good potential... and if I had to throw out a prediction now, I would guess it will be BiS. It's certainly better than Cinidaria.. I mean who the fuck are you people that keep talking about it being good? There's a reason why all other leather DPS specs call it garbage, lmao.

[xmr1]

Any fight lasting 2:30 and on the shoulders surpass the belt. One full extra meta is worth more damage than the shit you get from the Cinidaria. Period. Sims show that is true. Logs show that is true. Common sense shows that as true.

I do not have either of the new legendaries. Doing a bit of guesswork along with napkin math, I would guess that the shoulders probably outperform the new cloak as well. I do believe people are overrating the cloak - just as they overrate the garbage known as Cinidaria.

I am very interested in seeing results with the new ring though. I could be wrong - but I do not believe the current build of SimC uses the new ring correctly. I am actually quite excited to get my hands on one to fully test it. I do believe it has some good potential... and if I had to throw out a prediction now, I would guess it will be BiS. It's certainly better than Cinidaria.. I mean who the fuck are you people that keep talking about it being good? There's a reason why all other leather DPS specs call it garbage, lmao.

Sims do not accurately represent Cinidaria due to disproportionate amount of time spent below 90% in their model. You can check a large number of logs and see that on average it does nearly twice the damage that it sims at. Other leather classes also don't have the same opening burst so that's irrelevant.

[ItsSpiRo]

I am very interested in seeing results with the new ring though. I could be wrong - but I do not believe the current build of SimC uses the new ring correctly. I am actually quite excited to get my hands on one to fully test it. I do believe it has some good potential... and if I had to throw out a prediction now, I would guess it will be BiS. It's certainly better than Cinidaria.. I mean who the fuck are you people that keep talking about it being good? There's a reason why all other leather DPS specs call it garbage, lmao.

Jesus Christ are you serious?

[Sarevokcz]

Sims do not accurately represent Cinidaria due to disproportionate amount of time spent below 90% in their model. You can check a large number of logs and see that on average it does nearly twice the damage that it sims at. Other leather classes also don't have the same opening burst so that's irrelevant.

sims also dont show how cinidaria is almost worthless on progress as it needs boss to be one long phase with little variance in required output, like krosus, for it to be worth it, as it doesnt help with burst phases and doesnt help nearly as much with cleave/aoe or priority add zergs as other legs. And basically same goes for CT. its nice for epeen stroking with that one lucky pull with 80% anni crit tho

[Svisalith]

It's certainly better than Cinidaria.. I mean who the fuck are you people that keep talking about it being good? There's a reason why all other leather DPS specs call it garbage, lmao.

Yeah, and that reason is that they have way less burst damage than Havoc.

Cinidaria overperforms if you're doing far above the raid average damage on pull and underperforms if you're doing far below the raid average damage - there's basically a single shared 100-90% HP window and with high burst damage you get to steal it from everyone else. That's why it's good, it's why it was insanely strong when you could run dinner bell + mastery food with old chaos blades and burst to 6 mill.


---------


Soul of the Slayer looks good on paper but it loses a ton of stats - it just can't make up for the fact that even an unprocced Sephuz has 60k DPS worth of extra Crit and Haste over it passively. It would have to have an insanely good legendary effect to overcome that and the effect is good but it's not absolutely amazing to the point of being way better than any other legendary.

[Deleted]

Any fight lasting 2:30 and on the shoulders surpass the belt. One full extra meta is worth more damage than the shit you get from the Cinidaria. Period. Sims show that is true. Logs show that is true. Common sense shows that as true.

I do not have either of the new legendaries. Doing a bit of guesswork along with napkin math, I would guess that the shoulders probably outperform the new cloak as well. I do believe people are overrating the cloak - just as they overrate the garbage known as Cinidaria.

I am very interested in seeing results with the new ring though. I could be wrong - but I do not believe the current build of SimC uses the new ring correctly. I am actually quite excited to get my hands on one to fully test it. I do believe it has some good potential... and if I had to throw out a prediction now, I would guess it will be BiS. It's certainly better than Cinidaria.. I mean who the fuck are you people that keep talking about it being good? There's a reason why all other leather DPS specs call it garbage, lmao.

Maybe because demon hunters have something over other leather classes.. you know meta/CB biggest burst in the game LMAO

Only Dh i have seen cry about belt are the ones who suck and can't do a decent opener.. you seem to fit that category.. it's by far a top 3 probably 2 legendary in NH

[Sarevokcz]

Maybe because demon hunters have something over other leather classes.. you know meta/CB biggest burst in the game LMAO

Only Dh i have seen cry about belt are the ones who suck and can't do a decent opener.. you seem to fit that category.. it's by far a top 3 probably 2 legendary in NH

top 3 are by by far ring and then shoulders/wrists. heck, you can check top 100 for every boss and there are like two fights where cinidaria is relatively popular and one of them is tich padding and basically all of them are dinnerbell users...

altho I dont know if this post was serious or not anyway, claiming dinnerbell cinidaria rotation is hard to pull of when youre literally spamming Anni as much as RNG fury gen allows you to...

[Deleted]

top 3 are by by far ring and then shoulders/wrists. heck, you can check top 100 for every boss and there are like two fights where cinidaria is relatively popular and one of them is tich padding and basically all of them are dinnerbell users...

altho I dont know if this post was serious or not anyway, claiming dinnerbell cinidaria rotation is hard to pull of when youre literally spamming Anni as much as RNG fury gen allows you to...

My point is that I have only seen dh with belt complain about it cause it gets them only 2-3% of damage.. if that's the case they don't know how to do a proper opener no matter how "easy" it is

Also its not "By by by far" wrists are good on 3 fights out of 10.. belt turns up 7/10 fights, its debatable at best same with the shoulders vs belt due to timing/boss kill times etc

[xmr1]

sims also dont show how cinidaria is almost worthless on progress as it needs boss to be one long phase with little variance in required output, like krosus, for it to be worth it, as it doesnt help with burst phases and doesnt help nearly as much with cleave/aoe or priority add zergs as other legs. And basically same goes for CT. its nice for epeen stroking with that one lucky pull with 80% anni crit tho

For sure, I noted that about progression in an earlier post. I wasn't necessarily advocating for the belt but his points against it were way off.

[Zyrosis]

It's only bis in tomb with t20, probably has been said numerous of times now (skimmed the thread) but just throwing it out there anyway.

I have a question. If you're going to be taking First Blood and using Blade Dance already, why does the cloak become better only with the T20 sets?

[Mamut]

I have a question. If you're going to be taking First Blood and using Blade Dance already, why does the cloak become better only with the T20 sets?

Thats a good question, everyone keep saying Back BiS with T20 but why not now if most people use already FB?

[ItsSpiRo]

I have a question. If you're going to be taking First Blood and using Blade Dance already, why does the cloak become better only with the T20 sets?

I think when people say with t20 they mean when all gear is changed to appropriate stats. Not just 4 items. So when your whole gear is stacked with haste/versa, cloak will be a lot stronger. Because you are now siming shit with 40% mastery and wondering why is cloak not good, yeah because you need to use brain for a second.

[Svisalith]

Yeah, check again when you have 20% haste and a bit of vers.

[Zyrosis]

I think when people say with t20 they mean when all gear is changed to appropriate stats. Not just 4 items. So when your whole gear is stacked with haste/versa, cloak will be a lot stronger. Because you are now siming shit with 40% mastery and wondering why is cloak not good, yeah because you need to use brain for a second.

I was only asking why everyone saying it was better, not why it was simming worse for me, considering it's actually simming better for me. Thanks for the answer and all, but maybe don't be such a douche about it?

[ehxy]

I have a question. If you're going to be taking First Blood and using Blade Dance already, why does the cloak become better only with the T20 sets?

#1 To proc the cloak you need to blade dance
#2 t20 makes blade dance better
#3 when you blade dance and get a proc the first skill that gains benefit from it? you got it, blade dance
#4 with more haste means, you got it more blade dances