Stormblood MSQ Discussion (THERE ARE SPOILERS IN HERE)

[Eleccybubb]

The thing is, the last boss as a mechanic that can wipe you after 5 seconds. If you don't know what to do and no one tells the new guy, he will probably die unless he is aware of what the rest of the team is doing at that point.

And when people leave after *that*, it's just annoying.
If people leave after the 2nd wipe @ 35% or something, it's even more annoying.

I mean - that's superb progress... I can't stand it when people are getting pissed because of a single wipe or two. No need to try this for 90m.. but at least give it a couple of tries when progress is being made.
During my MSQ run in Castrum Abania, we wiped at the end boss. Once! - people didn't know what to do. Everything before that, first try, very fluid progression, mobs and pulls were swiftly killed and it was a quick run.

And when we wiped, the healer got all pissed about how we "fucking suck" and that he "is the new guy" and not us.

If I could, I would have punched him in the face right there. How freaking toxxic can a single human being be? Makes me believe they/he suffers from a mental illness. Socially awkward imbeciles, all of them!

I have noticed it more recently in DF. People expect new content to go down on day 1 or the entire group is bad. As I said I first noticed this stigma personally with Weeping City when it first came out.

I hate it too man and my view to people who act like that is this. Respect that there might be new players entering and try to help them. As much as I hated getting Nidhogg on Trial and I do admit I did insta leave a couple of times due to not being in the mood for that fight. I did help people. I told them what to avoid, to soak and which add to focus.

[MrTharne]

First time I did last boss, we wiped something like 5 times I think but everyone stayed and we won after people explained mechanics and all. After that I got it two times via roulette...first wipe...half of the group leave. Fucking L...O...L...

[Katchii]

First time I did last boss, we wiped something like 5 times I think but everyone stayed and we won after people explained mechanics and all. After that I got it two times via roulette...first wipe...half of the group leave. Fucking L...O...L...

I'll never understand this. Especially as a DPS right now, why would you leave and take a 30 minute deserter penalty when you could take 5 minutes (AT MOST) to explain a fight and be done with it?

OT: Reached Ruby Sea last night after my voyage with the ninja turtle. I am really loving this expansion. The zones, the story, the music, the characters...they're all so amazing! I can't wait to keep going and I'm only level 63, I can't believe I still have so much to go.

[Aurimas]

Yeah people at launch seem to have this mentality of "you must know what to do in content on day 1". It's moronic at best. I remember people crying in Weeping on wipes on day 1. And Creator too.

I'm not excusing the mentality. I've sure as hell never understood why a 30min cooldown was better than a few wipes and explaining things.

However, I have to admit that I've been trying to grab a SAM or RDM from the guild in their 50s to knock out my trial roulette. Specifically to avoid the new content wipes. So I'm... half an asshole?

[Katchii]

I'm not excusing the mentality. I've sure as hell never understood why a 30min cooldown was better than a few wipes and explaining things.

However, I have to admit that I've been trying to grab a SAM or RDM from the guild in their 50s to knock out my trial roulette. Specifically to avoid the new content wipes. So I'm... half an asshole?

There's a difference though when going specifically for a duty and doing a roulette.

When you queue for a roulette (or anything through the duty finder really), the whole point is that you will get grouped with random people in a random dungeon so you know you're gambling a little bit. Either live with the results of the gamble, or don't gamble.

[Aruhen]

Man you guys are unlucky with the people you get haha. I get 9/10 times really awesome groups. Heck the group I got for Lakshmi was mostly new players except two people who've already done it. Someone was goes "can we try going in blind?" and everyone agreed and on the third try we got it without any explaining.

But... of course you get the special dipshits here and there. I sometimes question how they function at all in real life if something as small as that triggers their brain to go full retard.

[Eleccybubb]

Just watched some of the 70 story dungeon and the first boss certainly brought a smile to my face.

Guess you could say I SEARCHED far and wide with a SCOPE to find a boss with a STING of this magnitude.

[Faroth]

I would argue it depends on the situation, I understand where you're coming from though, I'll pm you my opinion on the matter and maybe you'll understand my pov.

I can understand your point of view and ultimately I can see why you'd say that, but he was still a fantastic villain. Still tops my list alongside Kefka (who is pretty cowardly in his own way). There's a few reasons I'd question if the last scene works to be so, though.

@KrayZee I loved Heavensward, but totally agree. The characters got more time to flesh out and really look behind the outward presentation of who they are.

[Kazgrel]

Heck, the most trouble I had with that fight was the 90k crits knocking me clear out of the game.

I laughed when I saw tidal wave cause I was like "ok there's a fount over - SHIT I NEED TO GER OVER - *bloop*

Amusing as hell how he uses that early on, just like in FF5. It's also nice the one instawipe mechanic occurs 15 seconds in instead of 5 minutes in.

- - - Updated - - -

Man you guys are unlucky with the people you get haha. I get 9/10 times really awesome groups. Heck the group I got for Lakshmi was mostly new players except two people who've already done it. Someone was goes "can we try going in blind?" and everyone agreed and on the third try we got it without any explaining.

But... of course you get the special dipshits here and there. I sometimes question how they function at all in real life if something as small as that triggers their brain to go full retard.

I lucked out and got a group that one shot that fight. Even with my stupid ass running off the platform when she was at 10% (I wanted to get near the edge with the cross pattern thing on me).

[Thage]

I did enjoy that, but after wiping the floor with so many big bads that could literally end the world.....getting out asses handed to us by a seemingly normal person who just ranks high in the Empire seems really stupid and honestly felt kind of forced. I did like Raubahns comment right after saying he had to be something special to be able to best the likes of us.

Well, Garleans can't channel aether and offset this with magitek. It could very well be that Garlean magitek has begun to outpace the Eorzeans' use of aether, which would explain why the Garleans so freely and readily identify Eorzeans as backwoods savages. Especially from what we've seen of the Empire's technology levels even since ARR, they're leaps and bounds ahead, to the point where I'm not willing to rule out that they've managed to begin using magitek enhancements the same way the Warrior of Light is empowered by Hydaelyn's blessing (at least in terms of raw power and stamina/durability). We may well be facing our opposite number in much the same way we faced the Warriors of Darkness, and this time we didn't have the twins around to whip out a big fuck-off Blade of Light at the last minute.

- - - Updated - - -

Just watched some of the 70 story dungeon and the first boss certainly brought a smile to my face.

Guess you could say I SEARCHED far and wide with a SCOPE to find a boss with a STING of this magnitude.

Just remember, Cloud is a fucking liar.

[turboether]

The post-credits scenes were better than anything in the MSQ.

[zito]

So I'm nearing the end and what was the point of rescuing doma? They haven't shown up in a la mhigo at all and I'm almost at the final boss

[turboether]

It could very well be that Garlean magitek has begun to outpace the Eorzeans' use of aether, which would explain why the Garleans so freely and readily identify Eorzeans as backwoods savages. Especially from what we've seen of the Empire's technology levels even since ARR, they're leaps and bounds ahead, to the point where I'm not willing to rule out that they've managed to begin using magitek enhancements the same way the Warrior of Light is empowered by Hydaelyn's blessing (at least in terms of raw power and stamina/durability).

Zenos' scientists discovered a way to genetically modify an artificial Echo into people. This is entirely against the common Garlean ethos, which is why his father didn't care that his son died.

To Garleans, man is his own god and only savages rely on the crutches afforded by false gods (as all gods are, being manifestations of strong feelings and desires of people + aether). They clawed themselves from being weak and oppressed to world power through 'human' ingenuity. There is a logic to Garlean ethos: The Scions themselves share the Garlean thought of suppressing aether-born gods. The Scions however do it in the name of Hydaelyn, which we know isn't necessarily good for the world. The Garleans are in that way the neutral party on FF14's star on the bigger stage, even though their bitterness from being oppressed pre-magitech make their actions as the top world power spiteful and cruel to their previous oppressors.

[Cattleya]

So I'm nearing the end and what was the point of rescuing doma? They haven't shown up in a la mhigo at all and I'm almost at the final boss

The point was that while the resistance in Ala Mhigo was recovering and rebuilding, you liberate Doma to force the empire to fight on multiple fronts, making them wary of fully committing to the Ala Mhigo fight in case Doma attacks them, or after hearing of Doma's liberation, other oppressed people start rebelling as well.

[Nikkaszal]

Okay while the overarching story itself so far is really good and engaging, I really fucking hate the way they're going about it.

For every new place you visit, it follows this formula:

1) turn up to town
2) people decry you, want no part in the war etc
3) "lets win their trust by performing chores for random people"
4) gain grudging respect, but still no commitment
5) "lets do something grand to show them that it's the right time to fight!"
6) climax
7) area commits to your cause

Rinse. Repeat. Over and over and over and OVER.

Alisae even makes a meta comment about exactly this in the Ruby Sea town... and then you immediately follow the rote again.


Also, Namai village in Yanxia can eat a bag of dicks. Running up and down all those cliffs back and forth was balls.

[Thage]

Zenos' scientists discovered a way to genetically modify an artificial Echo into people. This is entirely against the common Garlean ethos, which is why his father didn't care that his son died.

This is true, but a shift in ethos isn't unheard of when a power-hungry son takes power from the previous emperor in fiction. Especially when the Eorzeans have been routinely handing the Garleans their collective ass ever since this upstart adventurer showed up out of nowhere five years after the Calamity and began wrecking the Ascians.

To Garleans, man is his own god and only savages rely on the crutches afforded by false gods (as all gods are, being manifestations of strong feelings and desires of people + aether). They clawed themselves from being weak and oppressed to world power through 'human' ingenuity. There is a logic to Garlean ethos: The Scions themselves share the Garlean thought of suppressing aether-born gods. The Scions however do it in the name of Hydaelyn, which we know isn't necessarily good for the world. The Garleans are in that way the neutral party on FF14's star on the bigger stage, even though their bitterness from being oppressed pre-magitech make their actions as the top world power spiteful and cruel to their previous oppressors.

Point of note, the Scions go after the Primals because the amount of aether they consume to stay active is dangerous to the land around them. In cases like Ramuh, they're generally willing to let well enough alone in the short term because the area has a surplus and Ramuh isn't actively hostile unlike most of the others, but even then he'd have to be addressed in due time if that surplus is threatened.

The Garleans aren't really a neutral party considering we have cutscenes with Garleans actively consorting with the Ascians. And knowing the Ascians' penchant for manipulation, a shift in the Garlean ethos toward embracing an artificial Echo to become more human than human (to borrow a phrase from my favorite movie), to show the Eorzeans their superiority by going so far as to offhandedly master something the Eorzeans believe is a gift from a goddess, isn't that far-fetched considering what we've seen of the new emperor in Heavensward.

[Graeham]

Bear in mind, Zenos wasn't working for Garlemald - he was doing his own thing, appointing the likes of Yotsuyu and Fordola into prominent positions because he wanted to fuel the hatred aimed at him to ensure he received a great fight at the hands of the famed Warrior of Light. He frequently speaks against his father's cause and makes foolish sacrifices that do not benefit Garlemald in any way.

Places like Kugane and Thavnair, meanwhile, do not suffer under despite having a Garlean presence - in fact, they prosper. The lore team have been very careful and deliberate in treating each legion like a separate entity. Nael wasn't necessarily working for Garlemald, many in the capital - including the current Emperor - were opposed to the Meteor project. Even Gaius, who wished to conquer Eorzea for Garlemald was disowned due to his failure and this ended up acting on his own accord...which is likely a large part as to why he teamed up with Lahabrea.

What's interesting is that Elidibus appears to have no problem with the Emperor slaying his fellow Ascians, which suggests that his methods and goals may differ to their own. I believe that unlike the other Ascians, Elidibus genuinely cares for the world of Hydaelyn and desires balance. A well intentioned extremist, albeit one who will go to questionable lengths to achieve such a result.

Bear in mind, though, that too much 'Light' is just as bad as too much 'Dark'. The state of the Warrior of Darkness' home world is a testament to that.

[Faroth]

Okay while the overarching story itself so far is really good and engaging, I really fucking hate the way they're going about it.

For every new place you visit, it follows this formula:

1) turn up to town
2) people decry you, want no part in the war etc
3) "lets win their trust by performing chores for random people"
4) gain grudging respect, but still no commitment
5) "lets do something grand to show them that it's the right time to fight!"
6) climax
7) area commits to your cause

Rinse. Repeat. Over and over and over and OVER.

Alisae even makes a meta comment about exactly this in the Ruby Sea town... and then you immediately follow the rote again.


Also, Namai village in Yanxia can eat a bag of dicks. Running up and down all those cliffs back and forth was balls.

I thought it worked well in Ala Mhigo, but I only did side quests in the first town in the Peaks. I left all others in Peaks and Loch for other jobs later. Even then, you only get a handful of volunteers.

The Confederacy makes sense. Pirates aren't going to stick their neck out easily.

I wouldn't say that's the case with the Xaela. You're not doing chores to win their trust and support of the cause. You have no such motive at Reunion and you're basically just helping the Mon in preparation for the required ritual. You're forced to do chores for the seating khan and they only commit because you claim victory in their contest.

And the Kojin didn't follow that formula.

I wouldn't mind if Doma had been more ready to fight, but unable to and Gosetsu's arrival had been the glimpse of what they needed, leading you to work with them in preparation of defense and then attack (basically Namai village could have been designed to have a "hire the samurai to fight the bandi-er, Empire" vibe of Seven Samurai.

But I thought it did a good job showing just how broken many people were under the Empire's oppression when many MANY stories, movies, shows, games only pay lip service to it while the towns are same as everywhere else and the people are all itching to fight.

[turboether]

The Garleans aren't really a neutral party considering we have cutscenes with Garleans actively consorting with the Ascians. And knowing the Ascians' penchant for manipulation, a shift in the Garlean ethos toward embracing an artificial Echo to become more human than human (to borrow a phrase from my favorite movie), to show the Eorzeans their superiority by going so far as to offhandedly master something the Eorzeans believe is a gift from a goddess, isn't that far-fetched considering what we've seen of the new emperor in Heavensward.

The Scions also actively consorted with the Ascians. Treating with them is not in and of itself proof of the Garleans being allied with them. Both sides have taken information from the white-robed Ascian and the Emperor does not trust that their goals align, as seen in the post-credits scene.

I could certainly be wrong, but there's no evidence the Emperor will take his sons research and use it, he seems very much against it by principle.

[Graeham]

The Scions also actively consorted with the Ascians. Treating with them is not in and of itself proof of the Garleans being allied with them. Both sides have taken information from the white-robed Ascian and the Emperor does not trust that their goals align, as seen in the post-credits scene.

I could certainly be wrong, but there's no evidence the Emperor will take his sons research and use it, he seems very much against it by principle.

The Scions have also consorted with Eikons, too - at least in the case of Ramuh. Furthermore, throughout Stormblood they even ally with some pretty dubious characters in the form of the Confederacy. (Who are pretty great, don't get me wrong - but they're still pirates who admit outright to stealing from anyone who cannot pay their 'ruby tithe'.)

As for the Emperor, I'm hoping that they won't have him become a puppet for Elidibus who ends up going off of the deep end because he buys into false promises - but if he does then I still hope we end up allying with a significant part of Garlemald as it is in itself as much of a victim as any of the other 'oppressed' nations we've encountered thus far.

Garlemald needs reform and to cut out the rot that exists in the form of people like Zenos but we've seen people like Regula who have proven to be pretty honourable and heroic. Ultimately there's two sides to every tale - and one of the largest reasons as to why Garlemald looks down on outsiders is due to being pushed around by 'savages' and forced to live in a wasteland back before they gained the power to defend themselves through the use of magitek. Most cannot wield aether and they do not have the luxury of a 'Warrior of Light' to solve all of their problems.

It's going to be very interesting to see how things play out as of 4.1 onwards.