ToS NM Cleared Day 1 by pugs and Heroic by Guilds, Yet LFR has to wait 2 months.

[Rusken]

Long story short, and avoiding all the elitism in these sorts of threads that tell you to do normal mode (totally ignoring all the bullshit that goes along with pugging a new raid through group finder eg "LFM Norm ToS 920+ ilvl link AotC, and download our stupid obscure voice program because we're too stupid to used Discord, and pull 1.5m dps consistently.")
LFR is gated to keep you subbed, you'll wait and pay for those 2 months while you wait for the whole thing, and so will the other 5 million people waiting for LFR. It also appeases the vocal minority of hardcore raiders on the forums who make whinge threads everytime they see someone with an item with the same name as theirs but without the little "heroic" or "mythic" tag under it.

Edit: I feel it also should be pointed out that 99% of pugs of a new raid, will fail at or before the first boss. Unless they're being led by organised raiders who have read up on or tested the fights, it's just like running into LFR but the raid is tuned waaaay too high.

[mysticx]

I understand why LfR is gated, so even the crappy guilds (Historically the biggest complainers about LfR) can clear the raid before LfR-players can, but would it have hurt to open up LfR wing 1 the first week? It would have given LfR-players at least some new content to do, and probably have stopped off part of the complaining going on too... (Not all of it, there must always be some grumbling on the forums! :P )

[Eazy]

I agree with OP. It should be queable since the first day, no reason why it shouldn't be.

Everyone who says "go pug it" or "you shouldn't' raid because normal is easy as fuck" should be ashamed of themselves.

[Lochton]

It's a stupid outdated practice. People saw the end cinematic before raids opened, and guilds cleared it on day 1 or day 2 depending on the raid. So no point holding onto it for 2 months.

People chose to see the cinematic, really. And it was out at the first US kill. Why it was cleared day one, I have no idea and shouldn't have been, sounds like undertuned. As for the waiting, tough? If it can be cleared so easily, then getting a group or a pug shouldn't be a problem. If it is, then wait for LFR. LFR is afterall not meant to be in tow with the main difficulties.

[Cosmic Janitor]

Oh my this pathetic whinging about LFR again. And no, I'm not talking about the OP, I'm talking about the people here that are so desperate to get validation for their own worth by constantly shitting on people who just "raid" LFR. Pugging is a pain in the ass, even more so than LFR, especially because you usually have to commit to the whole fucking raid and can't just cue for little chunks of it. Especially whenever I just want to quickly finish one of the chest quests I'm thankfull for LFR. The atmopshere in most pugs is hardly better than LFR, probably worse because there are more wipes undless you have the GS to apply for a high level one and then you have to the whole thing in one sitting or find one that happens to look for a replacement somewhere in the middle.

For once I have to agree with the OP, that they withold at least the first LFR unlock is garbage and probably just happens because the aforementioned people don't start laying eggs in this blind and senseless rage. How could Blizzard dare to let more casual players see some new bosses. There is really no reason to stretch it paper thin once again for 2 months. It's just another sub-baiting scheme tbh.

[Todesbote]

The reason LFR is gated is to keep people playing and paying longer. Otherwise you would just get carried through LFR on Day 1 and then keep complaining for 4 months how there is no content while the actual content (Mythic) is done by the real players. Deal with it.

[deadman1]

If you admit that it can be pugged, then why not pug it?

[Vrothgar]

"There is ZERO good reasons to gate LFR for 2 months." Yes there is and completly logical: some people are going to lfr, they clear all bosses and unsub cuz they saw raiding content. As a company would you like this type of players go, clear, unsub and go to forums to complain? You wanna do whole raid? Put some effort like blizz did creating raids and do this right. You don't like it? Wait for lfr.

[arel00]

LFR is gated for a very simple - and horrifying - reason. If you open the whole raid on day 1, then all the shitty guilds that can't clear Normal the first week (let alone the first night) will start pressuring their members to run LFR each reset just so they can have extra tier pieces to count on.
Unfortunately, that is a very large number of people, and possibly the largest sector of the raiding community. Since you can't get rid of the "grab more gear to overpower mechanics" mentality, you get to live with the consequences. For guilds that do normal and heroic from week 1, LFR wouldn't matter much anyway, for those that don't... well there you are, and LFR is gated.

On a more serious note: it's most likely so people that are forced to wait for LFR start fidgeting and try to join up old fashion pugs, doing normal.

[Ulfric Trumpcloak]

I wish lfr was available so I would have more chances at tier. 9/9N, 8/9H and 0 tier pieces.

Its not available so some scrubs can feel like they are better than the LFR raiders.

LFR isn't raiding, and everybody is better than the people that regularly run LFR.

[nekobaka]

I understand why LfR is gated, so even the crappy guilds (Historically the biggest complainers about LfR) can clear the raid before LfR-players can, but would it have hurt to open up LfR wing 1 the first week? It would have given LfR-players at least some new content to do, and probably have stopped off part of the complaining going on too... (Not all of it, there must always be some grumbling on the forums! :P )

Well looking back at WotLK the F&F guilds like of Injin's did not clear normal 10 man until after 4.0. I do agree though that two months is too long at this point. A number of casual PuGs will likely be clearing the raid before then. I agree with the gate being an artificial form of progression that is otherwise not there for LFR due to it being designed for non-raiders with no interests in progression raiding.

With that said I expect the majority of players as usual running the raid content at their appropriate difficulty will be spending weeks if not months clearing their appropriate difficulty. Day one clears are from mythic and heroic raiders clearing difficulties bellow them.

[lockybalboa]

Go pug normals then, normals aren't much different from lfr imo.

[TheVaryag]

How is that fair at all really? You can get max ilvl gear from WQ's that require you to collect squirrel nuts. You can get max ilvl doing NM dungeons.

So its clearly not a issue with gear.

So why is LFR getting gated 2 months when ToS is already being cleared by pugs day 1 and heroic by guilds day 1. It makes zero sense and just shows blizzard is trying to please a few at the cost of many.

Before someone jumps in and just goes "go pug it scrub" or some shit. Those types of reply's are one of the many reasons people avoid LFG and Progression guilds.


At this point and with the current loot system gating LFR the way they do is not needed. My $15 a month holds the same value as anyone elses, So why must my content be gated 2 months to please a small minority.

It's just Blizzard's newest time gating business, make people wait more for no bloody reason, It's nothing but "Just wait guys"... so dumb, instead of a month and a half for LFR to release, It's 2-3 months now.

Blizzard Is actually always trying the same thing... and that's please EVERYONE, they try at It so badly, like a woman who thinks any man will loves her, but only a few do and even than that's probably not true. They try to please the casuals, the hardcores, the PvPers, they try to please EVERYONE since like... forever, but only since Cataclysm did they really start catoring to casuals more than anything. As a 12 year long player of WoW and a hardcore lover of the game, I see nothing challanging, or Interesting In WoW anymore. And I'd love to just do a LFR and see the story, even the cinematic for the first time right there and then, and not from MMO-champ. Cause my raiding days are over, I stopped In Wrath. All I do since then Is hardcore PvPing and RPing, kept separately of course.

Imean ever since Emerald Nightmare we saw that LFR has no gear for anyone, by the time that thing came around, our gear from WQs and dungeons was waaaay better which already foretold you the pace of the future content, non existant that Is. Before, even in WoD you went Into LFR and everything was an upgrade, I liked that, just casually upgrade my PvE gear, I didnt care that much, for I had high end PvP gear which was my bees knee, PvPing. So you don't go there for gear, not with Nighthold either, and not with ToS either. So the only reason to go there Is to experience the story and the raid like a casual raider that -I am- now.

So In the end, they're just trying to give the Illusion of content, with their whole time gating shizzle. Starting with LFR, continuing with 7.2 and continuing with ToS LFR. In reality, they have on average the same content any previous expansion had on -average- If you don't count WoD. But they just spoon feed us that content over time, time gated If you will to give the Illusion of consistent content.

The first warning sign of that to me was 7.1s Suramar Story continuation being part of that patch, like what? I'm PRETTY sure that whole suramar story was all done before hand and they only cut up half of the story to be put into the next patch and give the Illusion of consistent content. It should've been there before 7.1, and 7.1 Itself was released too soon for me as well, even though It's the first major patch ever in WoW history to be revealed and hyped before an expansion even released.

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

My $15 a month holds the same value as anyone elses, So why must my content be gated 2 months to please a small minority.

Your $15 a month gives you the same options for completing the content right now as everyone else. So why must you sit around complaining instead of doing?

[Deleted]

LFR is for fast equipping newly dinged twinks and people returning to wow midcontent. Also it's for people who want to watch the content instead of playing it. It does not matter if half the raid slacks, is totally drunk, stoned or afk, it still works just fine to down any boss. You can see the graphics of some abilities, but they just don't matter. I don't mind it gated. I Would support LFR for the first wings only, some extra Bosses for normal raiders, some for heroic raiders and a final boss for mythic only on any given content. And attunements by clearing the lower difficulties first. Currently it feels like clearing content on day1, then doing it again with higher numbers. Loot comes raining from anywhere, just hit the slotmachines hard and grind hard as fuck to get a competetive weapon.

[Sylvaeres]

How is that fair at all really? You can get max ilvl gear from WQ's that require you to collect squirrel nuts. You can get max ilvl doing NM dungeons.

So its clearly not a issue with gear.

So why is LFR getting gated 2 months when ToS is already being cleared by pugs day 1 and heroic by guilds day 1. It makes zero sense and just shows blizzard is trying to please a few at the cost of many.

Before someone jumps in and just goes "go pug it scrub" or some shit. Those types of reply's are one of the many reasons people avoid LFG and Progression guilds.


At this point and with the current loot system gating LFR the way they do is not needed. My $15 a month holds the same value as anyone elses, So why must my content be gated 2 months to please a small minority.

Go clear normal, and of discussion

[Orangetai420]

And the usual ignorant assumption it is all about choice.
What about the barriers being raised in the traditional raiding format, which are very anti-social in themselves.
You have plenty of opportunity to help people out of LFR if you really believe it to be anti-social.
But I suspect this is more a case of you trying to "prove" some social superiority which really doesn't exist.
If anything those of us willing to interact with randoms are more social, instead of hiding behind closed doors, sticking with our safe options in guilds.

Nice strawman but nothing is stopping you from pugging, I said nothing about guilds.

[SupBrah]

Take away LFR as it is currently (as a difficulty, not as a grouping tool), merge it with normal mode, and open up normal and heroic modes to queues. You should have the option to use the queues or use the premade finder, and Mythic should be the only mode that does not allow a queue.

No
No
No
No
No

The queue system is garbage. I much, MUCH prefer the premade tab system. Honestly I wish Blizz had just introduced the premade tab over LFR in the first place.

Unfortunately, LFR will be here to stay because bads want to feel good, and those who want to see the content but don't have a few hours to raid (LFR also breaks it up into tiers, where raids, if you quit mid-section, you almost always have to skip a boss or 2 to get into a another pug.

[primalmatter]

There was a time I cared.

Titanforging has killed my ability to. Until we fix that I don't really see a point in restraining any of the other systems in the game.

[Soulsyphon]

I want LFR to open that way i can go in there with my normal and heroic ToS gear and feel like a LFR hero because that is what makes my life! On a serious note I truly don't see why people complain about this I work and have a life and blah blah blah and am still able to find a guild to raid with on a schedule that works for me. The group I run with raids 4 hours a week split between Wednesday and Friday and we are able to clear heroic content at a decent rate. at the pace we are going now we should have heroic down before LFR fully opens. With that said there is no reason anyone shouldn't be able to find a group that works for them with the right mindset for them and can clear the content. I honestly think LFR should have never been created the only benefit of it is to gear my alts quick and speed up a few quests.