Elune & The Void Lords

[Combatbutler]

It's not really what Khadgar thinks, per se; Elune being the creator of the Naaru is something related by certain texts in the library in Karazhan. It's not been confirmed one way or the other, but the information existed in book form for Khadgar to relate to us in the Xe'ra quests concerning Light's Heart. Very tellingly it's not something related in "Chronicle Vol. 1" which covers the origins of the known Warcraft universe including the Naaru - although it's possible that that's a truth Blizzard opted to conceal even in the seemingly all-inclusive "Chronicle" series.

Elune isn't really covered at all in the "Chronicle" series as of yet, as well; she's one of the few enduring mysteries of the Warcraft universe.

A hint of a real connection to the naaru is there though,considering her tear made it possible to speak to X'era. Something only someone of the same line of naaru should have been capable of doing. So I am inclined to agree with the theory that elune would be something akin to a light lord.

[Noomz]

I don't know if this topic has been discussed before but could it be that Elune is to the Light what the Void Lords are to the Shadow. The most powerful Light being, Elune, possible creator of the Naaru as Khadgar thinks. The equivalent of the Void Lords but with more light. Our only hope to stop Sargeras and the Void Lords (apart from Azeroth)?

Elune is far weaker than the Void Lords. The Void Lords ARE the void, not just creatures of it like the Naaru are creatures of the Light.

[Qualia]

Elune is far weaker than the Void Lords. The Void Lords ARE the void, not just creatures of it like the Naaru are creatures of the Light.

Um, no. The Void Lords are NOT the Void. They are void creatures, just extremely pure / powerful ones ("Void lords are monstrous entities composed of pure shadow energy" / "From the moment the cosmos came to be, dark spirit within the Void sought to twist reality into a realm of eternal torment")

[Noomz]

Um, no. The Void Lords are NOT the Void. They are void creatures, just extremely pure / powerful ones ("Void lords are monstrous entities composed of pure shadow energy" / "From the moment the cosmos came to be, dark spirit within the Void sought to twist reality into a realm of eternal torment")

"Dark spirits from within the void" aka the Void Lords, the Void made sentient. Their opposite are not the Naaru. The Naaru exist in our reality, within our universe. The Void Lords don't, because they can't. They ARE the Void. That's the reason they created the Old Gods, because they themselves couldn't enter our reality. And even the Naaru can't remotely compare to the power of an Old God.
We've so far yet to encounter any beings of the Light that are on par with Old Gods or ever heard of any that are similar to the Void Lords.

[tikcol]

It's quite obvious at this point that Elune is N'zoth

[Ryon21]

"Dark spirits from within the void" aka the Void Lords, the Void made sentient. Their opposite are not the Naaru. The Naaru exist in our reality, within our universe. The Void Lords don't, because they can't. They ARE the Void. That's the reason they created the Old Gods, because they themselves couldn't enter our reality. And even the Naaru can't remotely compare to the power of an Old God.
We've so far yet to encounter any beings of the Light that are on par with Old Gods or ever heard of any that are similar to the Void Lords.

Well I haven't said that Elune is a Naaru. I think is the creator of the Naaru. We haven't seen her form so she could be like the Void Lords but made of Light.

[Qualia]

"Dark spirits from within the void" aka the Void Lords, the Void made sentient. Their opposite are not the Naaru. The Naaru exist in our reality, within our universe. The Void Lords don't, because they can't. They ARE the Void. That's the reason they created the Old Gods, because they themselves couldn't enter our reality. And even the Naaru can't remotely compare to the power of an Old God.
We've so far yet to encounter any beings of the Light that are on par with Old Gods or ever heard of any that are similar to the Void Lords.

"Dark spirits from within the void" doesn't mean they are the Void made sentient. They are sentient void *energy* - powerful, pure void elementals, to make it simple. They are, however, not the Void. The Void is a zone, not a being, and there isn't any indication that the Void (or the Light) is sentient or that the Void Lords are any kind of avatar of that zone. If the Void Lords are the Void, killing them would end up destroying / damaging the Void - which I doubt would ever happen (although I'm very sure we'll be fighting the Void Lords eventually).

Obviously the Naaru isn't the equivalent of the Void Lord, I didn't say that and I'm sure no one claimed so. What people are speculating is that Elune, not the Naaru, can be the Light equivalent of the Void Lords. Personally, I'm not too sold on that theory yet, but I don't think there is anything that outright contradict it either, mainly because we know so little about Elune that we can't say what her true nature or how powerful she really is. Of course, that remains their speculation for now.

Lastly, I wouldn't say that the Naaru can't compare to the power of an Old God. A'dal, given his description in "Illidan", definitely is as powerful as any Old God we know as they were described. T'uure unleashed a massive holy nova that covered an entire planet, immediately clear its of void corruption and banished Dimensius from the world. That's more than anything the Old Gods ever done - none of them has did something on the continent level, much less planet.

Show me where you specifically see that Elune did this? For all we know it was just Ysera dying naturally.

In Blizzcon, they stated that that cinematic was "The manifestation of an ancient Night Elf's goddess", "The manifestation of the goddess to her people all within the veil of an eclipse", "Those long tendrils that she can use, almost like arms, to pick up Ysera and bear her up towards the heaven" and "Her (Ysera)'s eyes gave upon the presence of Elune" among other lines.

[Noomz]

Well I haven't said that Elune is a Naaru. I think is the creator of the Naaru. We haven't seen her form so she could be like the Void Lords but made of Light.

But the Naaru are known to have been on many other places, even on Argus waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay before anything on Azeroth was even relevant. So I dunno.

[Aucald]

A hint of a real connection to the naaru is there though,considering her tear made it possible to speak to X'era. Something only someone of the same line of naaru should have been capable of doing. So I am inclined to agree with the theory that elune would be something akin to a light lord.

I think it's the most rational theory so far, yes. Just not confirmed as it were. It would also help to know just what the Tear of Elune is, exactly; it's obviously connected to Elune in some manner given the cinematic with Ysera and her direct or indirect cleansing of it. But did Elune cleanse the Tear because it is connected to her (e.g. containing a portion of her essence or created by her) or merely because she knew the denizens of Azeroth would need it in their struggle against the Legion? I'm thinking Elune, whatever her actual specification, is an opposing force at a similar level to the Void Lords - but I also wonder if she is part of a greater pantheon of beings, or if she is alone against the panoply of the Void.

[Ryon21]

But the Naaru are known to have been on many other places, even on Argus waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay before anything on Azeroth was even relevant. So I dunno.

Yep but we don't truly know the nature of Elune. Maybe the "Light Lords" are just spread across the Great Dark Beyond and it just happens to be that there is one on one of the moons of Azeroth (or it is the moon itself). There are to many posibilites to know exactly how things were and how they can turn into.

[Noomz]

"Dark spirits from within the void" doesn't mean they are the Void made sentient. They are sentient void *energy* - powerful, pure void elementals, to make it simple. They are, however, not the Void. The Void is a zone, not a being, and there isn't any indication that the Void (or the Light) is sentient or that the Void Lords are any kind of avatar of that zone. If the Void Lords are the Void, killing them would end up destroying / damaging the Void - which I doubt would ever happen (although I'm very sure we'll be fighting the Void Lords eventually).

I never said the Void was sentient so why are you arguing it? I said the Naaru and the Void Lords, and all underlings, are creatures of it. They're those energies made sentient.

I've seen no indication that attacking the void lords would do anything like that. Assuming we could actually do such a thing, seeing as how we would have to ENTER THE VOID to do so.

Obviously the Naaru isn't the equivalent of the Void Lord, I didn't say that and I'm sure no one claimed so. What people are speculating is that Elune, not the Naaru, can be the Light equivalent of the Void Lords. Personally, I'm not too sold on that theory yet, but I don't think there is anything that outright contradict it either, mainly because we know so little about Elune that we can't say what her true nature or how powerful she really is. Of course, that remains their speculation for now.

I'm just making the comparison in regards to their level of power and origin.
Yeah I agree, Elune is not that kind of equivalent. More likely it's a Titan watcher of some sort.

Lastly, I wouldn't say that the Naaru can't compare to the power of an Old God. A'dal, given his description in "Illidan", definitely is as powerful as any Old God we know as they were described. T'uure unleashed a massive holy nova that covered an entire planet, immediately clear its of void corruption and banished Dimensius from the world. That's more than anything the Old Gods ever done - none of them has did something on the continent level, much less planet.

Then it seems that Naaru powerlevels are unpredictable.
Old Gods express their power in a different way, rather than overt displays of power, theirs is a power that corrupts, taints and influences. They're parasites after all. Their physical bodies though, have been nigh impossible to deal with. If a Naaru could cleanse an Old God in such a fashion, I'd think the Titans would've considered that option as well.

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Yep but we don't truly know the nature of Elune. Maybe the "Light Lords" are just spread across the Great Dark Beyond and it just happens to be that there is one on one of the moons of Azeroth (or it is the moon itself). There are to many posibilites to know exactly how things were and how they can turn into.

The Void Lords cannot manifest in our universe. I think it's safe to assume that goes for any possible Light-borne equivalents. It could be the equivalent of an Old God though. Or maybe more reasonably, a Titan construct of some kind that was meant to babysit Azeroth.

[Raetary]

Elune is far weaker than the Void Lords.

i really want to know how you actually came to that conclusion.

we literally dont know a single thing about her except that she's somehow related to the light and prime naaru.

[Qualia]

I never said the Void was sentient so why are you arguing it? I said the Naaru and the Void Lords, and all underlings, are creatures of it. They're those energies made sentient.

I've seen no indication that attacking the void lords would do anything like that. Assuming we could actually do such a thing, seeing as how we would have to ENTER THE VOID to do so.

Ok, if it's that, then I fully agree - as I also said they are sentient void energy. I only disagreed originally because you use "the Void" instead of Void energy, which I misunderstood and thought by "the Void", you meant the zone / area / dimension instead of the form of energy.

[Combatbutler]

i really want to know how you actually came to that conclusion.

we literally dont know a single thing about her except that she's somehow related to the light and prime naaru.

And is so far the only entity that has purified a demon.

[Noomz]

Ok, if it's that, then I fully agree - as I also said they are sentient void energy. I only disagreed originally because you use "the Void" instead of Void energy, which I misunderstood and thought by "the Void", you meant the zone / area / dimension instead of the form of energy.

But also that the Void Lords are so powerful and so closely tied to the Void as an energy, that they're practically one and the same! But yeah, not the place but the energy of that place.

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i really want to know how you actually came to that conclusion.

we literally dont know a single thing about her except that she's somehow related to the light and prime naaru.

Because Elune exists in our universe. The Void Lords don't, because they're far too powerful to exist in it. The latter is something that's been stated many times.
Ontop of the fact that when you consider that kind of power, Elune has yet to show anything so powerful or actually acted at all with any particular excertion of power by herself.

[Shelly]

I'm not sure where the whole "Elune created the Naaru" thing came from - I'm not saying she didn't just that I don't know of any specific references to that.

What we do have is knowledge that the tear of Elune resonated with Lights Heart so it is somehow related to the prime Naaru.

We also have a set of windchimes in the necropolis above Suramar where the plaque says they recreate the sounds that Elune makes - ie Naaru sounds.

So from those I can only surmise that she's a Naaru of some sort.

[Aucald]

I'm not sure where the whole "Elune created the Naaru" thing came from - I'm not saying she didn't just that I don't know of any specific references to that.

What we do have is knowledge that the tear of Elune resonated with Lights Heart so it is somehow related to the prime Naaru.

We also have a set of windchimes in the necropolis above Suramar where the plaque says they recreate the sounds that Elune makes - ie Naaru sounds.

So from those I can only surmise that she's a Naaru of some sort.

The connection comes from Light's Heart, the sentience core of the "Prime Naaru" Xe'ra, only being unlockable by an entity in her line of descent - in this case the Naaru O'ros in the Exodar. O'ros was unfortunately destroyed by Rakeesh and that left the sentience core locked and inaccessible as Xe'ra had no other descendants or ancestors that could be used. Khadgar discovered that there was some literature in Karazhan that stated that Elune had created the Naaru (including Xe'ra) and so hypothesized that the Tear of Elune might serve in the capacity of unlocking Light's Heart as she would thus be an effective progenitor or ancestor in Xe'ra's line.

Using Light's Heart worked, and the memories within Xe'ra become accessible. This seems to confirm Khadgar's hypothesis that Elune has a definite and familial connection to the Naaru, and so all signs point to her being their direct creator.

[darkoms]

And is so far the only entity that has purified a demon.

Do not forget about Lothraxion

[Combatbutler]

Do not forget about Lothraxion

He is a denizen of the twisting nether, he is simply infused with the light, which is different from a mortal night elf, becoming a demon and being transformed back into an ordinary night elf.

[Aucald]

He is a denizen of the twisting nether, he is simply infused with the light, which is different from a mortal night elf, becoming a demon and being transformed back into an ordinary night elf.

Lothraxion definitely seems to be a "redeemed" Dreadlord given the nature of his appearance - removed horns which appear to have been burned off someho), altered features, and even his armor itself (which still has the skull and sinister motifs of a standard Dreadlord) is now gleaming gold and glows with the Light. I'd wager something serious went down in his personal history that caused these changes.