If there is only one burning legion across all universes...

[solvexx]

If there is only one burning legion across all universes... How is there more than one Velen, one KJ etc.. That makes zero sense.

Cheers

[Ehrenpanzer]

If there is only one burning legion across all universes... How is there only one Velen, one KJ etc.. That makes zero sense.

Cheers

Welcome to "Why we told them not to open Pandora's Box" OR "Why W.o.D permanently fucked the lore for Warcraft beyond repair"

[Toppy]

If the Legion had an artifact capable of opening planet sized portals, why did they 1. Let it get stolen by Illidan by barely defending it. And 2. Why didnt they ever use it when their goal is always "Go to azeroth to open a planet sized portal"?

[TheFirstOnes]

If the Legion had an artifact capable of opening planet sized portals, why did they 1. Let it get stolen by Illidan by barely defending it. And 2. Why didnt they ever use it when their goal is always "Go to azeroth to open a planet sized portal"?

1. The Legion did try, they just died. And, well, Kil'jaeden was across the Universe on Argus.

2. No one knew about Illidan's plan. They just thought that they'd go to Argus on the Exodar, or something like that. However, Illidan made a Planet sized portal, something of which Sargeras HIMSELF can enter through...

TLDR= We're fucked.

[Ryon21]

It's just a matter of time that Blizz will say there is more than one Legion and the one we fight at Alternate Draenor was not our current Legion and when Archimonde sent Gul'dan to Azeroth he accidentally sent him to OUR Azeroth. So yeah. Time will tell us.

[Sigxy]

To make it more confusing: WoD involved time travel, so that Archimonde we fought was the same as we defeat on our timeline.

So... that Mount Hyjal raid in Caverns of Time makes it even more messy when we fought him there. If there's only one Archimonde in the different timelines, I'm certain he would know there would be wisps there. ;_:

[StationaryHawk]

1. The Legion did try, they just died. And, well, Kil'jaeden was across the Universe on Argus.

2. No one knew about Illidan's plan. They just thought that they'd go to Argus on the Exodar, or something like that. However, Illidan made a Planet sized portal, something of which Sargeras HIMSELF can enter through...

TLDR= We're fucked.

They meant why didn't the Legion use the Sargerite Keystone on Azeroth to open a gateway to Argus.

[DeicideUH]

Do not try to understand it, because it makes no sense at all. I mean, if there's one Legion, then what happens to all the extra corrupted versions of Kil'jaeden and Archimonde? Where is the corrupted Velen from an alternate timeline? Does Sargeras wastes his times travelling between multiple realities to recruit multiple eredar lieutenants? How can the single Kil'jaeden corrupt infinite Gul'dans from different timelines?

It was a big fuck-up from Blizzard because they introduced alternate universes but were too afraid to introduce multiple Legions. just ignore it and pretend WoD never happened.

They meant why didn't the Legion use the Sargerite Keystone on Azeroth to open a gateway to Argus.

I think it only opens portals to Legion worlds (the Legion probably leaves anchors or beacons in their worlds to locate them).

How Illidan opened a portal do Azeroth, then? Maybe he tinkered with it a bit and made some kind of anchor point in Azeroth?

[derpkitteh]

i feel like it probably works like when you become a demon, you're either erased from all other alternate realities, or you become one with the original that became a demon first.

[DeicideUH]

i feel like it probably works like when you become a demon, you're either erased from all other alternate realities, or you become one with the original that became a demon first.

It would still require one single demon to repeat history in every universe they find so they can corrupt others. Like the single Kil'jaeden recruiting infinite Gul'dan's to kill infinite Velens that exist because they exiled themselves after Sargeras spent time recruiting infinite Kil'jaedens despite already having a Kil'jaeden in his Legion.

It becomes even weirder when you realise that the Legion exists outside time, since WoD timewise happened 30 years before present Azeroth, but the Legion there was already aware of present Azeroth... It just makes no sense.

[derpkitteh]

It would still require one single demon to repeat history in every universe they find so they can corrupt others. Like the single Kil'jaeden recruiting infinite Gul'dan's to kill infinite Velens that exist because they exiled themselves after Sargeras spent time recruiting infinite Kil'jaedens despite already having a Kil'jaeden in his Legion.

since there's only one twisting nether, and only one kil'jaeden, then maybe corrupting gul'dan only happened twice.

maybe all the other universe gul'dans are just dead, good, or bad shaman or something. or pale orcs.

[zlygork]

It is rare for me to criticize lore, but this scenario was just a big messy excuse to... Make us feel like we were fighting our Archimonde because of reasons. Honestly, watch the flash and how he fights 20 times against different reverse flashes and it works much better that way.

[DeicideUH]

since there's only one twisting nether, and only one kil'jaeden, then maybe corrupting gul'dan only happened twice.

maybe all the other universe gul'dans are just dead, good, or bad shaman or something. or pale orcs.

But... if the Legion only payed attention to that reality after we reached it, how that reality could have a Velen and his draenei running from the Legion?

Also, that Gul'dan was already corrupted before Garrosh arrived, so the Legion didn't become aware of that reality due to Kairoz.

And... if the Legion is not spending time corrupting itself infinitely for no reason, then there's infinite realities in which Sargeras was never corrupted because all the "single existing demons" were being trapped and later recruited by our Sargeras, so there would be far less demons in other universes...

Ugh, my head hurts.

[StationaryHawk]

I think it only opens portals to Legion worlds (the Legion probably leaves anchors or beacons in their worlds to locate them).

How Illidan opened a portal do Azeroth, then? Maybe he tinkered with it a bit and made some kind of anchor point in Azeroth?

The point being, if it opens portals to Legion worlds, surely the Legion could have used it for that purpose while on Azeroth.

Which is off-topic, of course. I was just clarifying it on behalf of the person who originally asked the question.

[n8four]

A couple things I've picked up since everyone started talking about it this week. The keystone requires some level of attunement to a planet/location before it can work to create a gateway. The legion couldn't just say the magic words and open a portal to Azeroth. Illidan actually worked for a considerable amount of time to make this possible, has knowledge of the planet, and of the fel. The invasions the legion has had did not provide the power or time to do this themselves.

The multi-verse bs they introduced is impossible to explain. Velen exists on multiple universes because he's not a demon bound to the nether, which apparently transcends time/space/universe or some crap. At some point when a being accepts the demon life they are probably synchronized across all universes, turning all the KJs and Archimondes into a single being. That's how I rationalize it, but of course this is just an opinion/theory.

[derpkitteh]

But... if the Legion only payed attention to that reality after we reached it, how that reality could have a Velen and his draenei running from the Legion?

Also, that Gul'dan was already corrupted before Garrosh arrived, so the Legion didn't become aware of that reality due to Kairoz.

And... if the Legion is not spending time corrupting itself infinitely for no reason, then there's infinite realities in which Sargeras was never corrupted because all the "single existing demons" were being trapped and later recruited by our Sargeras, so there would be far less demons in other universes...

Ugh, my head hurts.

the thing about sargeras, our reality is probably the base reality. ours is probably the only one with the titans and world-souls, they probably transcend reality too.

it makes sense that kil'jaedan would try to kill velen in any reality he could find him, since he loved him so much before the legion. fel warps love into obsession and envy, it fueled him to want to kill velen wherever he could be found.

[Redcrow]

since there's only one twisting nether, and only one kil'jaeden, then maybe corrupting gul'dan only happened twice.

maybe all the other universe gul'dans are just dead, good, or bad shaman or something. or pale orcs.

I really don't understand how there is only 1 KJ but multiple Velens.

[derpkitteh]

I really don't understand how there is only 1 KJ but multiple Velens.

like i said, we can only assume how it works, but there's only one of each demon. there's no multiple universes of the twisting nether. there is no alternate universe demon.

kil'jaeden became a demon, so there should only be at least one demon version of him. whether that demonic transformation process leaves the alternate universe non-demon kjs alive, or destroys them, or whatever, we don't know.

when i say there's only one kj, i just mean there's only one demon kj.

[Aucald]

I'm of the impression that the Warcraft multiverse isn't one of those "all outcomes that could occur do occur in an infinity of alternative continuities." I'm thinking it's a sliding scale of continuities that create just a handful of stable universes where things are just a little difference from the primary continuity (e.g. the "one timeline" that the Bronze dragons were appointed to protect and cultivate). The other universes are unrealized realities - fragmented and patchwork, they likely exist only briefly before dissolving into nothingness. Kairoz and co. seized on one of the few universes where it was stable enough to be realized and made it a concrete instance that could be accessed and used for his own ends - one where the changes were minor enough to be stabilized.

As for how transcendent demons in the Nether function it can go one of two ways. Either on attaining true demonic status a mortal from a given universe is translated over to the Nether and his or her memories merge with their already demonic self, or the mortal in question is simply annihilated utterly as their "spot" is already occupied by a given demon (e.g. the case of Othaar/Socrethar in this case). Another possibility is that this merge is also universally transcendent, and that once a given mortal in a given universe becomes a demon then *all* their copies in alternate universes simultaneously do as well regardless of their current status.

[Heladys]

If there is only one burning legion across all universes... How is there more than one Velen, one KJ etc.. That makes zero sense.

Cheers

Is Velen burning legion? Cool story, bro.