[Megathread] Final Fantasy XIV

[dope_danny]

You don't know the pain yet.

THE PAIN

Oh i've heard you know who is worse than day one nidhogg pugs. My body is reggie.

[StrawberryZebra]

You're really going to have to explain how WHM has more offensive option.
Pretty much all healers got offensive neutered in a sense. They have more AoE option, kind of (Aeroga/Holy/Assize), but not really single target as they have the same 2 DoT 1 DD. Benefit we have at least is still shadowflare and energy drain for single target where as holy is pointless.

You're really looking at this in an extremely simple way.

As a quick comparison, the WHM has higher potency on most of their offensive spell counter parts, as well as having a couple of aces in the hole like Holy and Assize. Energy Drain can put the SCH ahead in terms of damage done, but at the cost of being unable to use those Aetherflow on something else. SCH damage spells deal damage exclusively, where the WHM ones have stuns and heals in the mix too giving them a little more flexibility in how they're used. Simply put, the WHM has more offensive spells not only for dealing damage, but ones that come with added bonuses too. You can use a WHM spell like Holy and Assize well and be rewarded for it, where as no such comparison exists for offensive SCH play.

You're right, all healers got their damage cut across the board. The SCH feels it far more acutely because they were the ones who had more opportunities to DPS, as well had more of those offensive spells removed. Aero, Blizzard 2, Bio's removal and Shadow Flare becoming a cooldown should leave you under no illusions that the the SCH is no longer "that DPS with the healer pet".

When you also consider that they no longer have access to Virus, which was a wonderful extra raid CD, and the MP increase on Adlo and Succor has made using them almost prohibitively expensive then the idea that the SCH was a preventative healer is also out. There's just nothing left that is uniquely the Scholars own anymore. Thats why people are upset, all the fun and the cool stuff about the job has been removed and nothing has been given back in return.

Looking at the SCH skills from 60 onwards it just feels like they ran out of ideas. Dissipation is at complete odd-ends with our job gauge. Chain Stratagem is an extremely odd choice when you consider that the SCH has had the rest of it's group utility stripped away. Excogitation seems like it was designed before the changes to Cleric Stance were finalised - It would have been awesome with the old CS, but now it feels like a slightly different version of Lustrate. The job has turned into an almost incoherant mish-mash of skills.

Pretty certain SCH is going to be the BRD and MCH of 4.0 - The job that complains about how much better off they were back before their mechanics were gutted.

[Kyanion]

snip

I echo that sentiment that SCH does not feel as good as it did before the expansion. Broil spamming is a MP hog like no other and only having 2 dots now instead of 4-5 just does not feel as fun to spread with Bane and that is even before the nerfs to Bane come into play. Already starting to feel like SCH is going to need some tweaks and changes to spells that just aren't very good such as dissipation.

[Anzaman]

Uhh.. members keep leaving, some of them being raid team members..

..and no idea how to stop, or even to slow it down.

Omega (EU) has taken so many, too many, of members. And even still most of FC leaders keep denying the idea of mass-transfer.

- - - Updated - - -

Was a bit disappointed how easy it is to obtain Materia VI's.

Hoped to get some Gil out of them, but with them dropping like candy in 70 dungeons, market board prices are very low.

[Lillpapps]

Got all my gatherers to 70 today Still have some farming to do though before I start with my crafters. Leveling times was very comparable to Heavensward except for Fishing which felt a bit slower, pretty low drop rate on the collectible fish.

[Remilia]

As a quick comparison, the WHM has higher potency on most of their offensive spell counter parts, as well as having a couple of aces in the hole like Holy and Assize. Energy Drain can put the SCH ahead in terms of damage done, but at the cost of being unable to use those Aetherflow on something else. SCH damage spells deal damage exclusively, where the WHM ones have stuns and heals in the mix too giving them a little more flexibility in how they're used. Simply put, the WHM has more offensive spells not only for dealing damage, but ones that come with added bonuses too. You can use a WHM spell like Holy and Assize well and be rewarded for it, where as no such comparison exists for offensive SCH play.

You're right, all healers got their damage cut across the board. The SCH feels it far more acutely because they were the ones who had more opportunities to DPS, as well had more of those offensive spells removed. Aero, Blizzard 2, Bio's removal and Shadow Flare becoming a cooldown should leave you under no illusions that the the SCH is no longer "that DPS with the healer pet".

When you also consider that they no longer have access to Virus, which was a wonderful extra raid CD, and the MP increase on Adlo and Succor has made using them almost prohibitively expensive then the idea that the SCH was a preventative healer is also out. There's just nothing left that is uniquely the Scholars own anymore. Thats why people are upset, all the fun and the cool stuff about the job has been removed and nothing has been given back in return.

Looking at the SCH skills from 60 onwards it just feels like they ran out of ideas. Dissipation is at complete odd-ends with our job gauge. Chain Stratagem is an extremely odd choice when you consider that the SCH has had the rest of it's group utility stripped away. Excogitation seems like it was designed before the changes to Cleric Stance were finalised - It would have been awesome with the old CS, but now it feels like a slightly different version of Lustrate. The job has turned into an almost incoherant mish-mash of skills.

Pretty certain SCH is going to be the BRD and MCH of 4.0 - The job that complains about how much better off they were back before their mechanics were gutted.

Aerora has a damage total of 300 and Aeroga 370, which does give credence that Aeroga does a bit more damage than Bioga but the difference is 20 potency. Miasma does 300 and Bioga 350 total.

Everything about Aetherflow is decision making. Even Energy Drain can be used for healing purposes due to the MP gain. Again, you're looking at it an extremely simple view. Assize is a mix bag as it's a MP regen and a heal / damage which doesn't make it straight forward (please don't use it in deep dungeon if you don't know what you're doing). Holy has a long cast and an additional delay after cast so again, not straight forward unless you use your instant cast CD.

Succor did not get an MP increase, only Adlo which is not by that much.
You're extremely exaggerating a lot of things. SCH's utility mostly came from their pet which hasn't changed. Eye for Eye and Virus were the only loss, both of which can be picked up by the other classes to begin with, granted Virus without the additional trait. Virus went to magic dps now.

It was not as before but you make it sound like it's the end. They more or less got normalized instead of being a gigantic power house healer.
Main reason I play SCH is because I have a pet I can control, not because I'm a DPS healing god.

[StrawberryZebra]

I echo that sentiment that SCH does not feel as good as it did before the expansion. Broil spamming is a MP hog like no other and only having 2 dots now instead of 4-5 just does not feel as fun to spread with Bane and that is even before the nerfs to Bane come into play. Already starting to feel like SCH is going to need some tweaks and changes to spells that just aren't very good such as dissipation.

I was hoping they'd just remove Disipation going in to Stormblood. Having a way to turn your Fairy off for a bonus effect is, in theory, just fine from a design point of view. You're trading off the healing of the pet for the advantages offered by having it disabled and that leads interesting decision making.

I don't hold out much hope at all that Squenix will go back and re-do the SCH for Stormblood at this point though, no matter how much I think it's needed. They tend to just roll forwards with their design mistakes rather than take a step back and try fix them.

--Edit, added a reply--

They more or less got normalized instead of being a gigantic power house healer.
Main reason I play SCH is because I have a pet I can control, not because I'm a DPS healing god.

Which is precisely the problem - SCH is now a slightly different version of the White Mage, not something unique in its own right. The AST is still it's own thing with it's own skills, so it's not as if normalising means homogenising.

[Katchii]

Uhh.. members keep leaving, some of them being raid team members..

..and no idea how to stop, or even to slow it down.

Omega (EU) has taken so many, too many, of members. And even still most of FC leaders keep denying the idea of mass-transfer.

- - - Updated - - -

Was a bit disappointed how easy it is to obtain Materia VI's.

Hoped to get some Gil out of them, but with them dropping like candy in 70 dungeons, market board prices are very low.

GOOD!

I hate having to spend an arm and a leg to properly gear my character. Especially when you have to repeat the process multiple times over the course of an expansion.

[Deleted]

They don't drop like candy.

It's really rare.
Like every third run or so, and then you must be lucky to get it and it must be the correct one.

considering how strong they are compared to the V Materia (+40 vs +12 stats) they will remain expensive.

[Anzaman]

They don't drop like candy.

I've done multiple runs with multiple materia VI's dropping. And if you're not that lucky, they are very cheap to grab from market board, at least on Odin.

For example during one run I got 2x V and 4x VI.

[Deleted]

You don't know the pain yet.

THE PAIN

Must be from a healer's perspective? Because Susanoo normal has basically no mechanics.

[Kyanion]

I've done multiple runs with multiple materia VI's dropping. And if you're not that lucky, they are very cheap to grab from market board, at least on Odin.

For example during one run I got 2x V and 4x VI.

I've gotten like 3 or 4 total out of like 14-15 dungeon runs. Also, 200k-400k is not very cheap to some players.

[Anzaman]

I've gotten like 3 or 4 total out of like 14-15 dungeon runs. Also, 200k-400k is not very cheap to some players.

I grabbed couple Piety VI's earlier for 30k each, while for example Strength VI went for around 110k.

I know my sample size is small, mostly just unlocked the dungeons and ran Ex roulette - but I've noticed during every run at least 2 VI's dropping.

[Remilia]

Which is precisely the problem - SCH is now a slightly different version of the White Mage, not something unique in its own right. The AST is still it's own thing with it's own skills, so it's not as if normalising means homogenising.

You're really looking at this extremely simple...

[Kyanion]

I grabbed couple Piety VI's earlier for 30k each, while for example Strength VI went for around 110k.

Yeah the core stat ones seem to be really cheap but the direct hit, crit ones and so on are quite high.

[Anzaman]

Yeah the core stat ones seem to be really cheap but the direct hit, crit ones and so on are quite high.

Mm, already managed to log out, so I'll check those once I get back online.

Currently got three sub-stat VI's in bag from runs that I didn't want to sell, waiting for healer stat priorities to be released before investing into them.

[StrawberryZebra]

You're really looking at this extremely simple...

So did Squenix. That's why we're in this mess

[Remilia]

So did Squenix. That's why we're in this mess

All of your reactions are extremely knee jerk and surface deep. No class is without fault, so seriously just think through and actually look at the abilities and use case instead of just these knee jerk reactions. It's not helpful to you or anyone with this silly 'discussion' if you can call it that that started out as just MP regen.

[dope_danny]

Got to a certain MSQ quest in the Peaks involving a certain character saying a certain something on top of a cannon that made me go "fucking WHAT?!?" out loud. Oh boy here we go.

[Anzaman]

Yeah the core stat ones seem to be really cheap but the direct hit, crit ones and so on are quite high.

Hmm, yeah - Crit VI listed for 418k, didn't check since I didn't get any of those during runs.

The materia I got were around 150k each top, for example Skill Speed.