How Did the Navy Get Space - and not the Air Force

[Deleted]

Going to say the same many already have: spacecraft and their operation are much more analogous to seafaring vessels than aircraft.

Ain't nothing to it.

[brimdog]

consider the two terms: Space Marines, Space Airmen and now tell me which one you vote for

[Kellhound]

Lets face it, even today all you need is the navy and the marines, the army and air force are just specialist that can (and should) be replaced by the more versatile services.

[Auxora]

Just conjecture, but some of it probably has to do with the rocket program up until the shuttle all were water/ocean landings. I know a lot of the training for astronauts focused on practicing the water landings in large pools and what to do if they had trouble getting out or if they took a while to retrieve them.

But more than likely it was just a political tug-of-war in the early days and the Navy won.

[I Push Buttons]

Fun question for you sci-fy people (including me). The question is how did the Navy get consistent "ownership" of outer space while the Air Force is left in atmospheric conundrum?

Hey got an update for you on this guy, looks like the Air Force is going to get it.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/mili...-the-military/

Lawmakers within the House Armed Services Committee have introduced legislation that would require the U.S. Air Force to establish a "Space Corps" as a distinct branch of the military by January 1, 2019, according to Space News. The proposed legislation would create a Space Corps to serve "as a separate military service within the Department of the Air Force and under the civilian leadership of the Secretary of the Air Force."

"There is bipartisan acknowledgement that the strategic advantages we derive from our national security space systems are eroding," said Republican Rep. Mike Rogers of Alabama and Democrat Rep. Jim Cooper of Tennessee in a statement. "We are convinced that the Department of Defense is unable to take the measures necessary to address these challenges effectively and decisively, or even recognize the nature and scale of its problems."

Rogers and Cooper are the top representatives of the Strategic Forces Subcommittee, which oversees military space operations. The House Armed Services Committee is preparing to vote on the National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA), and the subcommittee led by Rogers and Cooper introduced the new Space Corps legislation to the bill on Tuesday, June 20.

There are currently five branches of the United States Armed Forces: the Army, Navy, Marine Corps, Air Force, and Coast Guard. However, there are only three subordinate departments within the Department of Defense: the Department of the Army, the Department of the Navy, and the Department of the Air Force. The Marine Corps falls under the Department of the Navy, and in many cases Marines operate from Navy vessels, such as Marine Corps fighter squadrons that fly missions from Navy aircraft carriers. The Space Corps would be structured in much the same way, receiving its own four-star command but working closely with the Air Force to carry out its missions.

Command of the Space Corps would fall to its own chief, equal in rank to the Chief of Staff of the Air Force, who would sit on the Joint Chiefs of Staff and answer to the Secretary of the Air Force. The legislation would also establish a U.S. Space Command under the U.S. Strategic Command.

Congress believes rapidly increasing space infrastructure from nations around the world presents a potential threat to U.S. assets in orbit. If an adversary destroyed satellite networks, it could cripple communications and surveillance systems that the military depends on. Lawmakers and military commanders envision a future where space is much more accessible and crowded, and U.S. leaders worry that an adversary such as China or Russia could gain a strategic edge over the United States by establishing military capability in space first.

While a number of Air Force generals said in May that the creation of a Space Corps would ultimately be necessary, Air Force Chief of Staff Gen. David Goldfein maintains that the Air Force should manage military space operations for the time being. "I don't support it at this time," Goldfein said of the Space Corps proposal. "Whether there's a time in our future where we want to take a look at this again, I would say that we keep that dialog open, but right now I think it would actually move us backwards."

The introduction of legislation by the Strategic Force Subcommittee is just the beginning of a long road to actually establishing a Space Corps. The subcommittee will hold a formal legislative markup session to discuss the new portions of the bill on Thursday, June 22. After the subcommittee's session, the entire House Armed Services Committee will need to vote on the bill before it can be debated on the House floor, which is not expected to vote on the NDAA bill until after July 4. The Senate Armed Services Committee will also hold a markup session for the NDAA on June 28. If the Space Corps legislation in the bill makes it through votes from the entire House and Senate, then it will finally be sent to the White House to be signed into law.

Even if a Space Corps is not established by January 1, 2019, as currently proposed, lawmakers and military officers will continue to discuss the best way to provide for defense in orbit and beyond. In all likelihood, these debates will eventually lead to the sixth branch of the United States Armed Forces.

[cubby]

Hey got an update for you on this guy, looks like the Air Force is going to get it.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/mili...-the-military/

Wow, that is really interesting. Thanks for posting it - great read. A 6th branch . . . love it! Makes sense, too.

[Myrryr]

Yeah was kinda wondering why there was so much about the Navy in space, when most anyone in the USAF can tell you that pretty much all current military operations remotely dealing with space are within the AF's purview. I mean, most of our astronauts were/are in the Air Force, not the Navy.

In regards to Congress, it's about time. I had been hoping it'd be it's own thing, similar to the Navy/Marines. Push it down another 100-200 years and we should merge our military command structure to a Space Force and Planetary Force.

[PainREIGN]

My husband is in the Navy (E5, aviation electrician), and I've played the Mass Effect trilogy... which kinda did that. Except they went with a weird ranking mash up between the Marines and Navy.

The Navy actually has control over a lot of planes. P3s, p8s, jets, helicopters... etc You'd be surprised at how much the Navy actually flies :P My husband is assigned to a p3 squadron, which isn't attached to any boat. They typically deploy to Qatar, Japan, Turkey, Greece, and several other det sites. He's currently in Hawaii helping the other p3 commands move up to where we're currently at.

Where are you currently stationed out of NAS Whidbey? My brother served as an SS3 on P-3's and just retired from the Navy a few years ago and was stationed out in Hawaii for several years as a part of VP-4

Back on topic....... Spaceships not Spaceplanes. The Navy is suited to tight quarter long term missions.

[Kellhound]

Yeah was kinda wondering why there was so much about the Navy in space, when most anyone in the USAF can tell you that pretty much all current military operations remotely dealing with space are within the AF's purview. I mean, most of our astronauts were/are in the Air Force, not the Navy.

In regards to Congress, it's about time. I had been hoping it'd be it's own thing, similar to the Navy/Marines. Push it down another 100-200 years and we should merge our military command structure to a Space Force and Planetary Force.

Its time to merge the Army and the Air Force into the Navy and Marines.

[cubby]

Its time to merge the Army and the Air Force into the Navy and Marines.

That would make a lot of sense. All the branches have a terrific history and a closely defended existence, so this won't ever happen without a major outside upheaval. But I would back it.

[Kellhound]

That would make a lot of sense. All the branches have a terrific history and a closely defended existence, so this won't ever happen without a major outside upheaval. But I would back it.

The USAF is young with little history, no loss.

[cubby]

The USAF is young with little history, no loss.

That's right - they are post-WWII. I always forget that. Give 'em to the Navy!

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

Because spaceMARINES?

That's an example of the navy getting space...not a reason.

[Elim Garak]

When you send a jet into space it becomes a space junk floating in space slowly falling to the nearest gravity well.
When you send marines into space they become space marines.

[cubby]

That's an example of the navy getting space...not a reason.

Technically, that is a reason. The Marines are the Navy's soldiers and have always been about getting there rather than after you arrive (generally speaking, of course). If you expand on what the Navy already "owns" you cover everything space exploration and colonization require. The Air Force and Army can stay on Terra while the Navy expands the universe.

[Deleted]

Ships in the navy, ships in space. You make landfall with a ship, you make planetfall with a space ship. You have marines in the navy, and you need space marines in space. Ships at sea navigate by relying on the stars, ships in space navigate through the stars.

Also, you fly in atmosphere. You do not fly in space.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

Technically, that is a reason. The Marines are the Navy's soldiers and have always been about getting there rather than after you arrive (generally speaking, of course). If you expand on what the Navy already "owns" you cover everything space exploration and colonization require. The Air Force and Army can stay on Terra while the Navy expands the universe.

Space Marines is just a byproduct of Warhammer 40k giving Space to the Navy instead of another branch.

[Deleted]

Space Marines is just a byproduct of Warhammer 40k giving Space to the Navy instead of another branch.

And, again, if you look at my reply above yours, you'll see exactly why the navy fits, and air force does not.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

And, again, if you look at my reply above yours, you'll see exactly why the navy fits, and air force does not.

And I'm not making the argument that Air Force fits better than Navy...so your post is irrelevant.

[Deleted]

And I'm not making the argument that Air Force fits better than Navy...so your post is irrelevant.

No. You're saying that space marines are "just a byproduct" of WH40K and so on. However, since the realm of space obviously should be under the navy, logically there would obviously have been space marines, whether WH40K existed, or not. Hence, your comment I replied to, was wrong.