Page 1 of 2
1
2
LastLast
  1. #1
    Deleted

    Kil'jaeden using the void? wat?

    So during the last phase of the kil'jaeden fight, when its dark and the adds are summoned, which appear to be void creatures? How is this possible?

  2. #2
    For Azeroth!
    15+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Azeroth
    Posts
    5,220
    Warlocks use void walkers too.

    Also there's always been a connection Naaru vs Void creatures. KJ is an eredar after all.

    Doesn't mean he's a servant of the void lords however.

    On broken shore, the legion was summoning void creatures as well.

  3. #3
    All demons are half void? So why wouldn't they be able to use void stuff? Just because most of them use fel magic, doesnt mean that's all they can do.

  4. #4
    The Legions connection to the void has always annoyed me. Sargeras is meant to be opposed to the void, which is why he created the Legion (scour reality so there's nothing for the Void to claim). But the Legion uses/allies with it so often. The Nightmare, Elementals, Void creatures and Void magic.
    RETH

  5. #5
    How can warlock PCs fight the Legion if they're summoning demons? Makes no sense!!!!


    /sarcasm

  6. #6
    Fire against fire. It's not that crazy. Sometimes the best way to end your enemy is use its same weapons.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Dundebuns View Post
    The Legions connection to the void has always annoyed me. Sargeras is meant to be opposed to the void, which is why he created the Legion (scour reality so there's nothing for the Void to claim). But the Legion uses/allies with it so often. The Nightmare, Elementals, Void creatures and Void magic.
    Same logic as warlocks and demon hunters.

  8. #8
    The Insane Raetary's Avatar
    7+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Location
    Base Camp
    Posts
    19,043
    The legion has been using shadow magic for ages...


    Formerly known as Arafal

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Teri View Post
    Warlocks use void walkers too.

    Also there's always been a connection Naaru vs Void creatures. KJ is an eredar after all.

    Doesn't mean he's a servant of the void lords however.

    On broken shore, the legion was summoning void creatures as well.
    Sorry I'm not getting the second line where you bring up the Naaru and say KJ is an eredar.... You do realize the Naaru didn't contact them until they were fleeing Argus.

  10. #10
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Epic Premium
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Philadelphia, PA-US
    Posts
    45,574
    Quote Originally Posted by purebalance View Post
    Sorry I'm not getting the second line where you bring up the Naaru and say KJ is an eredar.... You do realize the Naaru didn't contact them until they were fleeing Argus.
    The Naaru actually contacted the Eredar well before the exodus of the Draenei - they gave them the Ata'mal crystal which was used by the leaders of the Eredar for quite a long time to steer their society and advance their knowledge of magic and the Arcane. This crystal was split into seven parts on the occasion of Velen's departure and meeting the Naaru again.
    "We're more of the love, blood, and rhetoric school. Well, we can do you blood and love without the rhetoric, and we can do you blood and rhetoric without the love, and we can do you all three concurrent or consecutive. But we can't give you love and rhetoric without the blood. Blood is compulsory. They're all blood, you see." ― Tom Stoppard, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    The Naaru actually contacted the Eredar well before the exodus of the Draenei - they gave them the Ata'mal crystal which was used by the leaders of the Eredar for quite a long time to steer their society and advance their knowledge of magic and the Arcane. This crystal was split into seven parts on the occasion of Velen's departure and meeting the Naaru again.
    Wrong Chronicle retconned that. It specifically says that the Naaru didn't come until after Sargeras came.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Bamboozler View Post
    Going with Aucald on this one. He's generally very knowledgeable and thorough, and I believe he knows his shit. All you've done is say "retcon," and that hardly gives you credibility. Find an excerpt from Chronicle and quote it, perhaps? Not really that important, however, as it's rather off-topic.

    And yeah, I'm sure this is a clear example of fighting fire with fire as another poster has mentioned. By this logic, all Warlock characters should be executed immediately, along with Shadow Priests, because there's no way we can oppose the Void as long as they're around using their magics, right? Nah.
    The page is right there in Chronicle. He's wrong. He isn't knowledgeable if he's wrong. Page 52 of Chronicle at the very top.

    "Velen despaired at the fate of his people. In this moment of desperation, the same beings who had granted him his vision of the eredar's downfall had reached out to him. One of the naaru, K'ure, contacted the eredar leader and offered to shepherd him and his closest allies to safety. Filled with renewed hope, Velen sought out other eredar whom he believed he could trust"

    If the naaru had been there before it would have been worded as such. Instead it 100% implies that the naaru had never been to Argus at that point. It would have said "the beings who granted the Atmal crystals" or something akin to that. It 100% shows that these are still something they had not met and Velen only just now is knowing what they are.
    Last edited by purebalance; 2017-06-22 at 09:23 PM.

  13. #13
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by purebalance View Post
    Wrong Chronicle retconned that. It specifically says that the Naaru didn't come until after Sargeras came.
    Aucald is right. The Ata'mal crystal and the piece of T'uure led Velen to the Naaru priesthood before Sargeras contacted Kil'jaeden and Archimonde.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by purebalance View Post
    The page is right there in Chronicle. He's wrong. He isn't knowledgeable if he's wrong. Page 52 of Chronicle at the very top.
    Read page 51 then. It's right there.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Tauror View Post
    Aucald is right. The Ata'mal crystal and the piece of T'uure led Velen to the Naaru priesthood before Sargeras contacted Kil'jaeden and Archimonde.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Read page 51 then. It's right there.
    That doesn't mean he met them or knew what the naaru were. The wording on the next page implies that they had no idea what the naaru were and had never met them which would imply that without the knowledge Velen now has, they wouldn't know of the void. That is the point of this argument. The eredar had potentially 0 knowledge of the void that we know of and the Atmal crystal being present doesn't mean they've lived alongside the naaru which is what he is implying.

  15. #15
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by purebalance View Post
    That doesn't mean he met them or knew what the naaru were. The wording on the next page implies that they had no idea what the naaru were and had never met them which would imply that without the knowledge Velen now has, they wouldn't know of the void. That is the point of this argument. The eredar had potentially 0 knowledge of the void that we know of and the Atmal crystal being present doesn't mean they've lived alongside the naaru which is what he is implying.
    There is nothing implied there.

    Also, Thal'kiel knew how to use Void and Fel, several years before Sargeras contacted the Eredar. So they knew about it. And a piece of T'uure was on Argus.


    "T'UURE, BEACON OF THE NAARU

    T'uure is one of the purest physical embodiments of the Light in existence. The dynamic energies that flow through this artifact can heal wounds both physical and mental. They can inspire hope in times of overwhelming darkness, and fortify timid hearts with courage.

    But perhaps T'uure's greatest strength is what we can learn from its past. If there is one thing to take away from its history, it is this: even one brave soul wielding the Light can save the lives of thousands.

    PART ONE

    The draenei have many legends about the benevolent naaru. Few are as cherished as the tale of T'uure.

    Like other naaru, T'uure vowed to protect all mortal civilizations in the universe from the clutches of darkness. This noble quest eventually led the holy being to a world called Karkora. Its mortal denizens faced annihilation at the hands of a monstrous entity known as Dimensius the All-Devouring.

    As Dimensius shrouded Karkora in Void energies. T'uure expended its own life force to spare the world from doom. The naaru shattered into fragments and sparked a colossal holy nova. The energy cascaded over Karkora, washing away the void and banishing Dimensius from the world.

    PART TWO

    From a draenei holy tome entitled Lessons in Hope and Sacrifice:

    " T'uure had shattered, but even broken, its Light was undiminished. Each piece blazed like a star, drawing naaru from the far corners of creation. They scooped up T'uure's glittering fragments, and they sang songs of the sacrifice that had saved a world.

    " The naaru gifted these shards to various races that they believed showed potential for good. The largest piece of T'uure was passed to our own ancestors: the ancient eredar of Argus.

    " It is said that this artifact plummeted from the sky like a falling star. Night turned to day, and T'uure's glorious Light painted the heavens in shades of gold for a full week."

    PART THREE

    The eredar were a highly erudite people who cherished learning, and they studied T'uure with great curiosity. The first among them to truly harness the artifact's power for good was the wise leader named Velen.

    During Velen's time, a strange curse spread across Argus. The victims found their minds addled, their memories diminished. Few things terrified the eredar as much as losing their precious knowledge. They reacted with fear and paranoia.To prevent others from contracting the affliction, many of the eredar considered quarantining the cursed or even banishing them from Argus.

    Yet Velen would not abandon his people. At great risk to himself, he walked among the cursed with T'uure in hand. Velen called upon the artifact's powers and cured all of the stricken eredar."

  16. #16
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Teri View Post
    Warlocks use void walkers too.

    Also there's always been a connection Naaru vs Void creatures. KJ is an eredar after all.

    Doesn't mean he's a servant of the void lords however.

    On broken shore, the legion was summoning void creatures as well.
    You realise the entire reason Sargeras went crazy and on a world-ending rampage is due to the Void? Why the hell would he use what he fears the most? Makes literally 0 sense.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Tauror View Post
    There is nothing implied there.

    Also, Thal'kiel knew how to use Void and Fel, several years before Sargeras contacted the Eredar. So they knew about it. And a piece of T'uure was on Argus.


    "T'UURE, BEACON OF THE NAARU
    Nothing in that quote says that the story of the void was not told to them when they actually met the naaru. Also it says "draenei" which implies the story was told to them after they fled Argus more than likely. Still have 0 proof they had intimate contact with the naaru before they left Argus. I mean hell it literally says T'uure came falling to the planet which also implies the Atmal crystals could have.

    Also going to need a citation that Thalkiel used the void. He used fel, not void to my recollection.

  18. #18
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Epic Premium
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Philadelphia, PA-US
    Posts
    45,574
    Quote Originally Posted by purebalance View Post
    That doesn't mean he met them or knew what the naaru were. The wording on the next page implies that they had no idea what the naaru were and had never met them which would imply that without the knowledge Velen now has, they wouldn't know of the void. That is the point of this argument. The eredar had potentially 0 knowledge of the void that we know of and the Atmal crystal being present doesn't mean they've lived alongside the naaru which is what he is implying.
    The passage in "Chronicle Vol. 1" you're describing details Velen's first meeting with K'ure - the first time Velen specifically had ever met a Naaru. The Ata'mal crystal predates Velen and Kil'jaeden's reign as the Duumvirate of Argus - it had likely been on Argus for several millennia before Sargeras showed up to corrupt the Eredar in nearly their totality. The Eredar had forgotten all about the Naaru by that time, having only the artifacts they left behind and few pieces of legend - they were completely new to Velen and his Eredar followers that would go on to become the Draenei.

    From the T'uure Artifact the key text portions are:
    "The naaru gifted these shards to various races that they believed showed potential for good. The largest piece of T'uure was passed to our own ancestors: the ancient eredar of Argus."
    Then:
    "During Velen's time, a strange curse spread across Argus. The victims found their minds addled, their memories diminished. Few things terrified the eredar as much as losing their precious knowledge. They reacted with fear and paranoia. To prevent others from contracting the affliction, many of the eredar considered quarantining the cursed or even banishing them from Argus.

    Yet Velen would not abandon his people. At great risk to himself, he walked among the cursed with T'uure in hand. Velen called upon the artifact's powers and cured all of the stricken eredar."
    Velen used a portion of a Naaru relic, the Beacon of the Naaru, to cure Eredar stricken by a plague - denoting that Naaru influence existed on Argus well before the Exile of the Draenei and the coming of Sargeras.
    Last edited by Aucald; 2017-06-22 at 10:08 PM.
    "We're more of the love, blood, and rhetoric school. Well, we can do you blood and love without the rhetoric, and we can do you blood and rhetoric without the love, and we can do you all three concurrent or consecutive. But we can't give you love and rhetoric without the blood. Blood is compulsory. They're all blood, you see." ― Tom Stoppard, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead

  19. #19
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by purebalance View Post
    Also going to need a citation that Thalkiel used the void. He used fel, not void to my recollection.
    "Before the eredar served the titan Sargeras, one of their greatest leaders, Thal'kiel, had unprecedented skill with summoning and binding magics. Driven by ambition, he reached into the Void and was answered with knowledge of dark creatures unlike any the eredar had seen before. Thal'kiel's apprentice, Archimonde, discovered his master's dark pact and revealed it to Thal'kiel's fellow rulers, who banded together to strike Thal'kiel down. After his defeat, they had his skull gilded and placed on display as a warning. Today the dreadlord Mephistroth uses it to enhance his ability to summon and command demon armies for the Legion."


    All in all, Legion still uses Void all the time.

  20. #20
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by StationaryHawk View Post
    Same logic as warlocks and demon hunters.
    It's really not. We are not going on a rampage to kill every demon in the entire world/universe.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •