Legion - Subtlety discussion

[shaunika123]

No idea, but if you do DfA just a split second before that transition you aren't stunned. Then you fly across the map to her.

you still get stunned even if you DFA at the right time, plus it throws you into the orbs and if you're unlucky you get bombed

[Valentyn]

you still get stunned even if you DFA at the right time, plus it throws you into the orbs and if you're unlucky you get bombed

Can't say I see any stun here, and got to the other side before the orbs even spawned.

https://clips.twitch.tv/IntelligentC...ntAmazonLitFam

[Won7on]

Pretty meh at the moment really.

Shoulders + Bracers, or Shoulders + Ravenholdt Ring for best results.

How good is ring? Actually worth using on any of the ToS fights? Bracer does have the downside that boss downtime is punished more heavily, and lots of ToS bossed have downtime. If the fight also has a decent amount of cleave, I could see actually using the Ring not just as a welfare Bracer replacement.

[Valentyn]

How good is ring? Actually worth using on any of the ToS fights? Bracer does have the downside that boss downtime is punished more heavily, and lots of ToS bossed have downtime. If the fight also has a decent amount of cleave, I could see actually using the Ring not just as a welfare Bracer replacement.

Can't say I've used the ring at all yet, although I probably should.

The Bracers are great for "cleave" though, since ShurikenStorm pumps up Evis for more damage, so with extra CPs you push out a lot more finishers.

[Won7on]

https://ravenholdt-tc.github.io/comb...rogue_t19.html

So are these sims still worth looking at? They seem to suggest the best build is... T19 2pc + T20 2pc Shoulders + Bracers with WM SF Alacrity DFA.



It seems like with how strong Symbols is (especially with Specter of Betrayal, our BiS), you'd really want the T20 4p to use it more often.

I'm gonna take those sims with a heavy grain of salt and shoot for for T20 4p + Bracers/Shoulders with a Specter, I think. My feelycraft says that that will be the correct build going forward, but I'm curious to see if anyone has any other evidence on this.

[Valentyn]

https://ravenholdt-tc.github.io/comb...rogue_t19.html

So are these sims still worth looking at? They seem to suggest the best build is... T19 2pc + T20 2pc Shoulders + Bracers with WM SF Alacrity DFA.



It seems like with how strong Symbols is (especially with Specter of Betrayal, our BiS), you'd really want the T20 4p to use it more often.

I'm gonna take those sims with a heavy grain of salt and shoot for for T20 4p + Bracers/Shoulders with a Specter, I think. My feelycraft says that that will be the correct build going forward, but I'm curious to see if anyone has any other evidence on this.

The Sub APL is a broken mess right now. Sims can only really be used to compare trinkets and stat weights at the moment. According to the folks at Ravenholdt in Discord, and Riff.

I have a Specter at 910 + Socket, and it's a damn odd trinket.
It's like a weak Nightblooming frond, but is consistent. Negative is that in some cases Frond can proc more and if you're on the target you're going to beat Specter a lot.

Blizzard also stated in their Q&A

"What you described seems to imply that given T20 pieces being +10 ilvls higher, T20 2pc+4pc is still a downgrade over T19 2pc+4pc? If that's the case, we did not hit our intended tuning target and I would want to look into adjusting this. This applies to any spec."

So expect tuning to prevent the combo of tiers most likely.

[Won7on]

"What you described seems to imply that given T20 pieces being +10 ilvls higher, T20 2pc+4pc is still a downgrade over T19 2pc+4pc? If that's the case, we did not hit our intended tuning target and I would want to look into adjusting this. This applies to any spec."

So expect tuning to prevent the combo of tiers most likely.

Good call. Damn, I wish the Shoulders weren't so good cause a 30 sec Nightblade is much nicer to play with.

[Valentyn]

Good call. Damn, I wish the Shoulders weren't so good cause a 30 sec Nightblade is much nicer to play with.

I get ya! Going to miss it a lot when we go 4 set in ToS. Crit is just so good for Sub now, speciall with Weak Point and Dark Shadows + Symbols. Lots of synergy for lining up great burst.

[Raidenwrath]

Is the dmg from Specter of Betrayal calculated when activated and stays like that for the duration, or is it calculated every three seconds when it actually deals dmg?

[Valentyn]

Is the dmg from Specter of Betrayal calculated when activated and stays like that for the duration, or is it calculated every three seconds when it actually deals dmg?

It deals damage once, for 3 seconds for the minute it's alive. If you then activate a second Specter one before the first disappears, both explode dealing damage again for 3 seconds.

No Idea how the Sim folks calculated it however.

[Raidenwrath]

Ah, now I get it. I misinterpreted the effect and thought it deals dmg every 3 seconds for a 60s duration.
Is the trinket off GCD though?

[Jaronicity]

?
i didnt run WM with DFA
so what's weird about it

How are you using mfd? I've been playing with dfa pretty strictly. Are you just using it on cd? Saving it at any point in particular?

[shaunika123]

How are you using mfd? I've been playing with dfa pretty strictly. Are you just using it on cd? Saving it at any point in particular?

basically if SoD is gonna come back in less than 5 seconds i hold on to it, but otherwise i just use it on CD

[Jaronicity]

basically if SoD is gonna come back in less than 5 seconds i hold on to it, but otherwise i just use it on CD

SoD on CD or did you line that up with dance? I'm used to lining everything up for DfA so just want to check if things changed with the other build. Cheers.

[Won7on]

Hmmmm...



- - - Updated - - -

SoD on CD or did you line that up with dance? I'm used to lining everything up for DfA so just want to check if things changed with the other build. Cheers.

Someone posted an APL that that holds DFA for Symbols, I believe, and it simmed higher. Check it out yourself: https://pastebin.com/iC5q4Wd3

Was about a 19k DPS gain for me, which is significant.

[milkbonez]

what kind of build you guys running for m+?

[Jaronicity]

Hmmmm...



- - - Updated - - -



Someone posted an APL that that holds DFA for Symbols, I believe, and it simmed higher. Check it out yourself: https://pastebin.com/iC5q4Wd3

Was about a 19k DPS gain for me, which is significant.

Yea I'm pretty well-versed in the DFA build and what to hold for when, but I've never really played the MFD build so I wasn't sure if I was to line SoD with anything or just use it when it comes up.

[shaunika123]

SoD on CD or did you line that up with dance? I'm used to lining everything up for DfA so just want to check if things changed with the other build. Cheers.

SoD on CD, and keep 1-2 dances for it every time

[Valentyn]

Ah, now I get it. I misinterpreted the effect and thought it deals dmg every 3 seconds for a 60s duration.
Is the trinket off GCD though?

Yeah it's off GCD from what I've experienced.

[Won7on]

So the 945 Specter seems to be... good. Quite good. Here's a log of a H Goroth where it did 5.23% of my damage: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...pe=damage-done

I basically used it off CD - with the 0:45 CD, every 2nd one lines up with the Vanish-Symbols-DFA-Dance combo. And these things CAN crit and are buffed by all of those damage increases. And my usage was far from perfect, too - this was just a pug, and many of my uses did not double hit because of boss movement.

So not only is that a 25k upgrade over my 905 NBF from Agility alone, it seems to do as much or more damage as NBF, even with less than perfect usage.

I suspect it will work even better with 4 pc, where it can be used with Symbols-Dance every time, as every second Symbols is 0:50 apart. It's a tough call whether that will be better than wearing 2pc+2pc though. That sort of thing will be hard to sim since I don't think the APL is clever enough to use this trinket optimally in both setups.

P.S. Yes it's off GCD