Why I think Europeans can't understand conservative US views

[Skroe]

Well I think both sides can't understand the other's view.

This infographic is crap.

The foreign and security policy section of this chart is embarassingly wrong.

Liberal Hawks and Conservative doves are a thing. Some of this country's finest diplomats have been conservatives, and it's greatest war-leaders liberals. And that is because foreign and security policy operates in it's own sphere outside of the left/right realm.

And that "instilling moral" "instilling strength" stuff stinks like looking for words to put in arrows.

Also there are many center-right scientists. Science also isn't a "liberal" thing. That's ridiculous. Unless now the only "science" that matters is climate science.

And society "Survival of the Fittesst"...? Really what is this cartoonish shit.

[Deleted]

Most europeans I've met are defined by their condescension towards America and their belief that the EU can do no wrong.

must be why one country just left and all the others saw a rise in eurosceptic movements

as for condescension well its not like you guys elect the brightest people

[Skroe]

Most europeans I've met are defined by their condescension towards America and their belief that the EU can do no wrong.

Most Europeans I've met have been nothing but respectful of America and Americans, and both happy and frustrated by the EU and their national governments.

You know.

Like normal people.

Oh and for the record, as Americans, the EU is our geopolitical masterpiece and we should encourage it in every way possible. Bastions of tyranny around the world once feared America and the smaller, weaker allies it had its orbit. Human freedom on a global scale had a single point of failure: the United States. Now with the EU we can make it so that we have a partner. A Wonder Woman to our Superman. The twin pillars of freedom and democracy on Earth.

Or more to the point, if the "West" is to survive, Americans, 320 million Americans are going to have to team up with 650 million Europeans (and another 300 million of our other assorted allies) to win against the 1.2 billion person Chinese economic, military and political juggernaut that wants to tear down the post 1945 world order and build a replacement in its image.


In other words, if you want the West to survive and win the 21st century, the success of the EU is at the very center of our grand strategy

[Rukh]

It might shock you but Europeans have radical right-wingers too, they're just not one of two main parties.

[Wyrt]

Most European countries have crazy far-right extremists, they just aren't one of the major parties. So I'm sure they understand the crazy far right in the US, they just don't agree and wouldn't vote for that shit in their own country.

[Mittens]

must be why one country just left and all the others saw a rise in eurosceptic movements

as for condescension well its not like you guys elect the brightest people

Condescensions towards America predates Trump. And has little to do with him, just go and take a look at the thread about GMOs.

As for EU worship, most of the rejection is a backlash to immigration, rather than a rejection to the EU itself. The only exception that comes to my mind is Italy, but that has more to do that they got fucked by the EU, other countries in the region might be the same.

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Most Europeans I've met have been nothing but respectful of America and Americans, and both happy and frustrated by the EU and their national governments.

You know.

Like normal people.

Oh and for the record, as Americans, the EU is our geopolitical masterpiece and we should encourage it in every way possible. Bastions of tyranny around the world once feared America and the smaller, weaker allies it had its orbit. Human freedom on a global scale had a single point of failure: the United States. Now with the EU we can make it so that we have a partner. A Wonder Woman to our Superman. The twin pillars of freedom and democracy on Earth.

Or more to the point, if the "West" is to survive, Americans, 320 million Americans are going to have to team up with 650 million Europeans (and another 300 million of our other assorted allies) to win against the 1.2 billion person Chinese economic, military and political juggernaut that wants to tear down the post 1945 world order and build a replacement in its image.


In other words, if you want the West to survive and win the 21st century, the success of the EU is at the very center of our grand strategy

The key to fight against China is to cut off it's growing influence in Asia. That has little to do with the EU and it's not like they could do something aid. And it doesn't seem like they want to.

[Skroe]

Condescensions towards America predates Trump. And has little to do with him, just go and take a look at the thread about GMOs.

As for EU worship, most of the rejection is a backlash to immigration, rather than a rejection to the EU itself. The only exception that comes to my mind is Italy, but that has more to do that they got fucked by the EU, other countries in the region might be the same.

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The key to fight against China is to cut off it's growing influence in Asia. That has little to do with the EU and it's not like they could do something aid. And it doesn't seem like they want to.

China's end-game is the New Silk Road to bind the EU to China economically.

Or let me put it another way. If CHina dominates it's near-abroad in Asia-Pacific, and builds the New SIlk Road that binds countries across it to it (supplanting economic and political ties with the US), what does that make the United States?

The weird country isolated on the other side of the planet from where most of the human race lives, so very far away on the other side of two immense oceans.


The New Silk Road moves the center of the World from the New York-London-Paris axis to Beijing-Shanghai-Hong Kong.

The US needs to block it, and trade and tighter relations with a singular Europe is the best way to do it.

China's vision:



Our solution:

[mvaliz]

Your logic is completely flawed. How does Government that encourages people to not work lead to a more successful and productive country?

Because your logic is LITERALY flawed and wrong as evidence by Germany, France, and the rest of europe NOT being lazy and yet still working. If that logic is flawed, how come those countries are so prosperous and are only increasing their standards of living?

How is your logic flawed is your assuption that people would want to suddenly "Give up" and just eat basic food and sit at the table and do nothing. The aforementioned programs of Europe only grant you the basics to live, but do NOT give you a well-lived adventuresome life. THAT is the factor you are missing. ^_^

[Deleted]

Condescensions towards America predates Trump. And has little to do with him, just go and take a look at the thread about GMOs.

Yes, when you declare that America can force EU to accept GMOs, you should expect condescension towards you (single person).

[Deja Thoris]

I don't agree with you OP.

I'm probably better travelled in America than most Americans. I've cycled across the country twice and saw first hand a lot of the idiosyncrasies as you pass from state to state etc. A price on the shop floor you need to add x% at the till because of sales tax. In one state you can buy a beer in a supermarket but the next one you need to go to some kind of government depot thing to purchase alcohol and so on and so on. It always struck me as funny after this that you're considered "United" since a lot of you don't agree on much or anything or have much in common.

I digress.

What does this have to do with "conservative" views?

[Mittens]

Yes, when you declare that America can force EU to accept GMOs, you should expect condescension towards you (single person).

My comment is not refering to your nonsense in that thread.

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Because your logic is LITERALY flawed and wrong as evidence by Germany, France, and the rest of europe NOT being lazy and yet still working. If that logic is flawed, how come those countries are so prosperous and are only increasing their standards of living?

How is your logic flawed is your assuption that people would want to suddenly "Give up" and just eat basic food and sit at the table and do nothing. The aforementioned programs of Europe only grant you the basics to live, but do NOT give you a well-lived adventuresome life. THAT is the factor you are missing. ^_^

France literally has a shit labour market. I'm not sure thats a model anyone wants to follow.

[mvaliz]

Also there are many center-right scientists. Science also isn't a "liberal" thing. That's ridiculous. Unless now the only "science" that matters is climate science.
.

And biological science behind embryos/birthing...

...and zoological/biological science of the existence of different variants of sexuality in male/female animal nature...

...and any science in regards to recycling, of course...

...oh yeah, and lets not forget the biological and zoological science behind Darwin's nasty little theory that schools teach...

...oh, and Paleontology - can't forget those pesky dinosaurs and Million-year geological history! That's also a part of science!

...did we mention genetic research? Can't be using those sacred Stem Cells cuz "Planned Parenthood farms babies and sells them" or whatever BS...

But yes... I guess if you disregard all THOSE aspects - it's just about Climate Change...

Skroe, bud, I love ya and all - but you still have a lot more waking up to what your side has been and IS doing right now. :P

[Deleted]

Because your logic is LITERALY flawed and wrong as evidence by Germany, France, and the rest of europe NOT being lazy and yet still working. If that logic is flawed, how come those countries are so prosperous and are only increasing their standards of living?

How is your logic flawed is your assuption that people would want to suddenly "Give up" and just eat basic food and sit at the table and do nothing. The aforementioned programs of Europe only grant you the basics to live, but do NOT give you a well-lived adventuresome life. THAT is the factor you are missing. ^_^

You realize that America has weflare, correct? It hasn't worked, and it will not work in the future. And don't give me this BS that Europe is more prosperous economically. Quite simply, it's not. There's a reason America dug itself out of the recession faster than the Europeans did. Europe's unemployment rate is still over 9%, meanwhile America has an unemployment rate of 4.7%.

https://tradingeconomics.com/euro-ar...mployment-rate

[Felya]

I don't agree with you OP.

I'm probably better travelled in America than most Americans. I've cycled across the country twice and saw first hand a lot of the idiosyncrasies as you pass from state to state etc. A price on the shop floor you need to add x% at the till because of sales tax. In one state you can buy a beer in a supermarket but the next one you need to go to some kind of government depot thing to purchase alcohol and so on and so on. It always struck me as funny after this that you're considered "United" since a lot of you don't agree on much or anything or have much in common.

I digress.

What does this have to do with "conservative" views?

Because unlike Europe the continent, in American the country, we have federalism vs statehood debates. Statehood being currently defines as a conservative value, while federalism is seen as liberal.

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You realize that America has weflare, correct? It hasn't worked, and it will not work in the future. And don't give me this BS that Europe is more prosperous economically. Quite simply, it's not. There's a reason America dug itself out of the recession faster than the Europeans did. Europe's unemployment rate is still over 9%, meanwhile America has an unemployment rate of 4.7%.

https://tradingeconomics.com/euro-ar...mployment-rate

I can see his reply... can you?

[Deleted]

And biological science behind embryos/birthing...

...and zoological/biological science of the existence of different variants of sexuality in male/female animal nature...

...and any science in regards to recycling, of course...

...oh yeah, and lets not forget the biological and zoological science behind Darwin's nasty little theory that schools teach...

...oh, and Paleontology - can't forget those pesky dinosaurs and Million-year geological history! That's also a part of science!

...did we mention genetic research? Can't be using those sacred Stem Cells cuz "Planned Parenthood farms babies and sells them" or whatever BS...

But yes... I guess if you disregard all THOSE aspects - it's just about Climate Change...

Skroe, bud, I love ya and all - but you still have a lot more waking up to what your side has been and IS doing right now. :P

Conservatives against recycling? First I've ever heard of this.
Biologically humans have two genders: male and female. That's it. It doesn't matter that other species have more than two. In this scenario you are actually denying science. SJW fundamentalist, I guess.
Religious fundamentalists are not the same as conservatives.

[Felya]

Biologically humans have two genders: male and female. That's it. It doesn't matter that other species have more than two. In this scenario you are actually denying science. SJW fundamentalist, I guess.

No, you are denying free will. It doesn't mater if someone wants to be a woman or man. We as humans have cognitive thought and are not driven by instinct. The same way you don't violate some natural order when you take an airplane ride, no force will strike you down if some dude wants to be a chick.

Religious fundamentalists are not the same as conservatives.

You are entitled to your opinion, but the intertwining religious fundamentalism with conservatives, is exactly why both Goldwater and Ayn Rand demolished what Reagan was turning conservatives into.

[mvaliz]

Biologically humans have two genders: male and female. That's it. It doesn't matter that other species have more than two.

I guess you can add a failure for Reading Comprehension into that list as well. >_<

I said "Variants of sexuality in male/female animal nature". Not that there were multiple different genders. There are entire pods (or a school, as you probably wouldn't know what a "pod" is) of gay dolphins out there. That Homosexuality/bisexuality is indeed a part of nature.

Religious fundamentalists are not the same as conservatives.

Ben Carson isn't Conservative? Sarah Palin isn't Conservative? o_O

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=
You are entitled to your opinion, but the intertwining religious fundamentalism with conservatives, is exactly why both Goldwater and Ayn Rand demolished what Reagan was turning conservatives into.

/shudder

To think I actually agree with one thing that Ayn Rand said. >_<

[Masark]

Biologically humans have two genders: male and female. That's it.

Incorrect. Try catching up with this century's scientific discoveries.

Furthermore, gender has little to do with biology. You're referring to sex. Gender is all the societal stuff that we like to stack on top of it and has many variations.

[lordsphinx]

I don't agree with you OP.

I'm probably better travelled in America than most Americans. I've cycled across the country twice and saw first hand a lot of the idiosyncrasies as you pass from state to state etc. A price on the shop floor you need to add x% at the till because of sales tax. In one state you can buy a beer in a supermarket but the next one you need to go to some kind of government depot thing to purchase alcohol and so on and so on. It always struck me as funny after this that you're considered "United" since a lot of you don't agree on much or anything or have much in common.

I digress.

What does this have to do with "conservative" views?

Actually, you're exactly agreeing with me. My concept is that, though we are a country, we have innumerable differences from state to state. There are very few things that are best handled at the federal level, namely the 8 areas specifically called out in the constitution (I also agree with @Skroe for the record, when you get to brass tax, there are some additional things that could be handled by the feds)

[Mittens]

China's end-game is the New Silk Road to bind the EU to China economically.

Or let me put it another way. If CHina dominates it's near-abroad in Asia-Pacific, and builds the New SIlk Road that binds countries across it to it (supplanting economic and political ties with the US), what does that make the United States?

The weird country isolated on the other side of the planet from where most of the human race lives, so very far away on the other side of two immense oceans.


The New Silk Road moves the center of the World from the New York-London-Paris axis to Beijing-Shanghai-Hong Kong.

The US needs to block it, and trade and tighter relations with a singular Europe is the best way to do it.

China's vision:



Our solution:

You mean the TTIP? The thing that exposes how fundamentally broken negotiating with the EU is? The TPP was better in that it had strong support among its members, was more effective in restricting China and forced Asia to adopt our trading rules.

EDIT: Forgot to mention, you are misunderstanding the purpose of the TTIP, it wasn't conceived to restrict China, it was conceived to open the EU to US products and further strenghten already existing relations.