*Potential Spoilers* Sargeras is/was...

[Skoll Shorties]

Sargeras is or was Argus! I posted something similar of this on my Youtube Channel Skoll Shorties. I'm not allowed to link sadly.

Alright, so let me get my points across here I guess. First thread here so if I am not the best I apologize.
Now this idea is pretty far fetched of mine and I can definitly understand the need to point out its flaws, holes, and as to why this isn't possible but I want to at least get the idea around to get people's opinions on it. Okay? Okay.

Sargeras is current Argus : After Sargeras was thrown away from the portal to Azeroth he was thrown into a weaken state after expending his soul into that of an ancient, killing the Titans, and all those years of hunting demons, cleaving planets, and etc. Titans need a nap too, yeah? So Sargeras takes a long needed rest within the very core of Argus. Corrupting the already fel painted world more than any other planet in the Great Dark Beyond - pissing off Kil'jaeden (who is now the speaker for the planet of Argus, similar to Magni is to Azeroth currently). This would also explain why Sargeras was nowhere in sight or near Argus when Gul'dan was doing the ritual to pour Sargeras' soul (His Master) into Illidan's lifeless body during Nighthold - Sargeras was nowhere in sight - but what was? That's right Argus! ...Again pretty up in the air idea and its probably inaccurate, but it would be one boss cinematic to see Sargeras rip from the very world we're standing on and him becoming the very platform we fight on.

Sargeras was Argus: Another stretchy concept of mine that goes hand in hand with my previous paragraph, but hear me out at least. As we know all Titans came from a Planet at one point and they would shortly pull themselves out from said planet to walk amongst their fellow Titans. Sargeras was no exception and would be born from his planet and later would join with his fellow Titans (which he would promptly kill). Argus was that planet that Sargeras was once with as we do not know what happens to the planet after the Titan births from it. It would make sense why Sargeras was so drawn to the planet and why the Eredar were a must for his Legion - the very inhabitants of his planet would prove the most useful in his Legion.

So that is my far fetch idea, probably inaccurate. Probably wrong. Probably gonna get ignored or gonna be told why this isn't gonna work but that's okay. I hope you at least liked this idea and or might agree with it. Thanks for taking the time out of your day to read this or watch my video. Thanks!

[Ryon21]

I like the first part as it would explain what had happened in those 10.000 years that K'J and Archimonde were leading the Legion while Sargeras was... having a nap and thinking what to do with Azeroth? Something like that.

The second part I don't know why people is obsessed with Argus being Sargeras' birthplace but there is nothing leading to that theory. But that Tintans to cure themselves use the core of a planet I could see it.

[Justank]

Interesting ideas, I think the first one is more feasible and has more support to it. I would be okay with Titans having the ability to 'rest' inside a planet's core. The second idea, as Ryon said, doesn't have much supporting it. The Eredar were incredibly powerful magic users even before Sargeras corrupted them, leading him to them according to current lore.

Sargeras was no exception and would be born from his planet and later would join with his fellow Titans (which he would promptly kill).

On this note, Sargeras was a member of the pantheon for quite some time before he turned, so even if he did come from Argus he didn't kill the other Titans for a very long time after 'birthing' from the world.

[Aucald]

I would think the "birth" of a Titan from an inhabiting world-soul would desolate a host planet if not destroy it outright - given the nature of what the Azeroth world-soul has done to the elemental energies of Azeroth (siphoning off Spirit energy causing the Elementals to behave chaotically and grow immensely strong). Given Argus was a paradise world prior to the arrival of Sargeras it seems like it's more likely it was relatively normal like Draenor or K'aresh, not hosting a Titan world-soul of any kind. I do think Sargeras is slumbering within Argus, though; using it to heal his wounds caused by his possession and expulsion from Medivh and/or the death of his Avatar to Aegwynn.

I think, given the nature of Titanic maturation, it makes sense for a Titan to use a world to incubate within to heal themselves from critical injury. This process might not even be deleterious to the world itself except that Sargeras is steeped in destructive Fel energies, which probably suffused into Argus and caused it assume its current fractured and half-decimated state.

[n8four]

Corrupting the already fel painted world more than any other planet in the Great Dark Beyond - pissing off Kil'jaeden (who is now the speaker for the planet of Argus, similar to Magni is to Azeroth currently).

The problem with this is that Magni is communing with Azeroth, the unborn titan, not the planet itself, allegedly. Argus does not have an unborn titan in it, so there is no voice for this planet. It's dead. I do believe KJ is disgruntled with Sarg for destroying Argus, which apparently happened, but it's because it was KJ's home world, not because he talked to it. And if Sarg is using the planet as a cocoon then he would be the voice KJ is talking to and would probably sound like "zZzzz" or something about not enough pillows.

[Aucald]

What if Sargeras is dead?

Other than voices, do we have any proof he even lives? KJ may have just been schizo, and constantly talking to himself.

Seems doubtful, given that the Sargeras in the fire spoke to him with a different voice that we also heard as third parties in the cinematic. Kil'jaeden's final speech also posits that Sargeras is still alive to be defeated by Velen and the denizens of Azeroth.

[Rend Blackhand]

Sargeras is not Argus or any planet.

Sargeras was a fully matured Titan thousands of years before he discovered Argus and the Eredar.

[wind]

Well, if Azeroth can be a living being I don't see why Argus can't.

World Soul, thats why, Azeroth have one, Argus do not

[Wildmoon]

The WotA trilogy novels had Sargeras's body destroyed by the portal. If Blizzard is gonna stick to that then this speculation makes sense.

[Deleted]

World of Warcraft : Titans Returns

Story : Azeroth VS Argus(=Sargeras)
We need to help our planet to live and regen.
And destroy that Fel planet.

We'll see :
- Magni
- Titans
- Old gods
- etc..

Thank for Illidan and Khadgar for bringing it near our planet !

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World Soul, thats why, Azeroth have one, Argus do not

The Argus' World Soul may be Sargeras himself.

[Caerule]

The WotA trilogy novels had Sargeras's body destroyed by the portal. If Blizzard is gonna stick to that then this speculation makes sense.

This was rewritten in Chronicle to instead just have him shunted back into the Twisting Nether.

Chronicles also states that what possessed Aegwynn and Medivh were possessed only by a sliver of Sargeras' will and spirit. Not Sargeras' full soul. Sargeras uses avatars, pretty much the same way you use your WoW character. You certainly control your avatar with your will. But it's not all of your true self.

So yeah, by all accounts Sargeras true form is fine. And it's clear he was never Argus, as he was travelling the universe, and became corrupted, before he came to Argus. It's possible he could possess another planet. I mean, he is an expert at possession. But it would seem very counter-productive, when he could be out there, pummeling planets apart with his fists.

[Ulfric Trumpcloak]

It's possible i guess. Would be pretty disappointing if there's no physical manifestation of Sargeras, and we end up fighting adds and shit...

[Synros]

I've been speculating about this too. Something must have happened to Sargeras' body, & he's using the planet as a "shelter". That could explain that massive gash running down the planet, because he literally forced his way into it's core. We know the Eredar loved their planet, so this could be what KJ meant when he said "I paid for that destiny with my world". Maybe leaving Argus untouched to fel corruption was part of the original deal, but Sargeras broke that when things went wrong. Would explain why KJ was really pissed at Sargeras.

[DarkTZeratul]

This was rewritten in Chronicle to instead just have him shunted back into the Twisting Nether.

It wasn't really much of a rewrite; War of the Ancients was worded ambiguously enough that it could have gone either way.

[Synros]

So yeah, by all accounts Sargeras true form is fine.

Yes, Chronicle updated & changed a lot of lore. But only up to a certain point. We really don't know what else has happened to Sargeras during these last 10,000 years. When it comes to characters like Sargeras, it's entirely possible they've keep any new lore secret until the appropriate time in the xpac's narrative. OP made a good point when they brought up the fact we see Agrus, not Sargeras, during Gul'dan's ritual.

[Caerule]

Yes, Chronicle updated & changed a lot of lore. But only up to a certain point. We really don't know what else has happened to Sargeras during these last 10,000 years. When it comes to characters like Sargeras, it's entirely possible they've keep any new lore secret until the appropriate time in the xpac's narrative. OP made a good point when they brought up the fact we see Agrus, not Sargeras, during Gul'dan's ritual.

Perhaps, but that's only if you assume that Sargeras wanted his entire true World Soul transferred into Illidan. Which seems unlikely. He's shown plenty that he's adapt at using avatars, which only takes a sliver of his spirit, to enact his will upon a world. Illidan would have been an immensely powerful Avatar, especially as he comes pre-marked with tattoos that help contain and control fel energies. Meaning he can probably contain a lot more fel than most hosts.

Sargeras' advantage is that his soul and mind is an entire world. Even a small fraction of it is capable of being a whole person with his will and motivations. So it's a lot more likely that Argus simply has a strong avatar of Sargeras, or a connection to Sargeras, and what Gul'dan was trying to infuse Illidan with would have made him Sargeras's Avatar. Not True Complete World-Soul Sargeras. I mean, look how powerful even the empty vessel of Sargeras in the Tomb is. And that's just something that once held a sliver of Sargeras' spirit. No more than a small part. And it's not even there anymore, beyond the smallest echo. Full Avatar Illidan should have been more than enough to best us.

[Wildmoon]

Perhaps, but that's only if you assume that Sargeras wanted his entire true World Soul transferred into Illidan. Which seems unlikely. He's shown plenty that he's adapt at using avatars, which only takes a sliver of his spirit, to enact his will upon a world. Illidan would have been an immensely powerful Avatar, especially as he comes pre-marked with tattoos that help contain and control fel energies. Meaning he can probably contain a lot more fel than most hosts.

Sargeras' advantage is that his soul and mind is an entire world. Even a small fraction of it is capable of being a whole person with his will and motivations. So it's a lot more likely that Argus simply has a strong avatar of Sargeras, or a connection to Sargeras, and what Gul'dan was trying to infuse Illidan with would have made him Sargeras's Avatar. Not True Complete World-Soul Sargeras. I mean, look how powerful even the empty vessel of Sargeras in the Tomb is. And that's just something that once held a sliver of Sargeras' spirit. No more than a small part. And it's not even there anymore, beyond the smallest echo. Full Avatar Illidan should have been more than enough to best us.

Possessing a mortal host proved to not be a really good choice. It made him extremely vulnerable. A simple swing of a sword could kill Medivh. Just a glass canon.

[Calfredd]

The Argus' World Soul may be Sargeras himself.

Kind of hard for that to be true when he already had a sizable army in the Burning Legion before offering the Eredar (not to be confused with the demonic Man'ari, the refugee Draenei, or the corrupted Broken and Lost Ones) membership.

[Zyky]

This would also explain why Sargeras was nowhere in sight or near Argus when Gul'dan was doing the ritual to pour Sargeras' soul (His Master) into Illidan's lifeless body during Nighthold - Sargeras was nowhere in sight - but what was?

Why is lore so difficult for so many players to grasp, his body was destroyed, Blizzard confirmed that Titans don't regenerate like Demon's do, his soul is around, but he'll never have a body unless he finds a host strong enough to contain his soul.

[Caerule]

Possessing a mortal host proved to not be a really good choice. It made him extremely vulnerable. A simple swing of a sword could kill Medivh. Just a glass canon.

Well yeah. Even Illidan would have just been a host of insignificant power compaired to Sargeras' true form as well. Even his stone avatars laughably weak compared to his planet-sized self. It's part of why I think it's silly to think he'd ever willingly put his full soul into any host, when he is able to just use portions of it to create fully functioning avatars of himself, without risking his full self.

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Why is lore so difficult for so many players to grasp, his body was destroyed, Blizzard confirmed that Titans don't regenerate like Demon's do, his soul is around, but he'll never have a body unless he finds a host strong enough to contain his soul.

I don't think it is necessary for you to call into question people's ability to grasp things.

That aside, we are in disagreement. Sargeras' body was not destroyed. Chronicles clearly states he was simply shunted back through the portal, not crushed, during the War of the Ancients (If that even was his true planet-sized body, but that's a different discussion with no real answer beyond speculation). It's also confirmed in several sources that he creates Avatars that carry but a sliver of his spirit and power. And that what possessed Medivh, was such a sliver. Not his full self, but a small part of him.

Sargeras can't get here with his true form because it is very far away. This is confirmed. He relies on avatars containing a portion of his spirit, to bring his will and power across the cosmos, as that is more easily to transport.

Sargeras is indeed a Titan first. His soul won't regenerate a new body when his Titan form is destroyed. Which is what I am sure will happen. But there is no standing evidence in lore that states this has already happened.