*Potential Spoilers* Sargeras is/was...

[Hctaz]

This was rewritten in Chronicle to instead just have him shunted back into the Twisting Nether.

Chronicles also states that what possessed Aegwynn and Medivh were possessed only by a sliver of Sargeras' will and spirit. Not Sargeras' full soul. Sargeras uses avatars, pretty much the same way you use your WoW character. You certainly control your avatar with your will. But it's not all of your true self.

So yeah, by all accounts Sargeras true form is fine. And it's clear he was never Argus, as he was travelling the universe, and became corrupted, before he came to Argus. It's possible he could possess another planet. I mean, he is an expert at possession. But it would seem very counter-productive, when he could be out there, pummeling planets apart with his fists.

I mean he could be Argus now for reasons... What those are, we might not know. I would presume it has something to do with... well anything. Maybe failing so many times and shit has given him issues and he needed to use Argus to heal.

I wonder, too, about something else. We can presume that the races on Azeroth grew strong to protect the titan for a couple of reasons: The Well of Eternity transformed trolls into Night elves until they became smart enough to then learn magic and use the energy of well for their own growth. Other creatures like the Humans, dwarves, and gnomes were all titan creations "gifted" with the curse of flesh. So a little bit of titan and a little bit of old god giving them free will to get where they are. But what about the Draenei and the Orcs? Neither of their planets had a world soul. I know the orcs had fel magic and whatnot, but they have lived so long without it and the brown skinned orcs that were not fel-touched were also strong. The draenei were such a powerful race of individuals that Sargeras sought them out personally to be the most powerful race in his army. These races are just as strong as those who formed and evolved over many thousands of years WITH a titan in their planet... I wonder, then, if part of the strength of a planet is determined by the kind of creatures that can be formed on its surface. Like a planet seeped in magic and power will naturally form stronger species on its surface.

So an alternative theory to Sargeras ever being beaten and forced into finding a new body is this: What if he saw Azeroth and realized that he, too, could become that strong if he used a suitable planet to reform his body. What if Argus was just so full of latent energy and raw power that he thought that his rebirth through their planet would strengthen him to new, unreachable heights; heights that Azeroth's titan and the void lords would not be able to touch.

Instead of him losing and being forced to rebirth, he chose this willingly as part of a larger master plan.

[Skoll Shorties]

I've never seen Blizzard confirm or say that Sargeras' body was destroyed. Not in Chronicles or in any of the new or recent lore at the least, since pieces of Lore have been retconned.. If that's true I suppose that might debunk my theory here. But otherwise I cannot find any posts by Blizzard saying this.

[Zyky]

I don't think it is necessary for you to call into question people's ability to grasp things.

That aside, we are in disagreement. Sargeras' body was not destroyed. Chronicles clearly states he was simply shunted back through the portal, not crushed, during the War of the Ancients (If that even was his true planet-sized body, but that's a different discussion with no real answer beyond speculation). It's also confirmed in several sources that he creates Avatars that carry but a sliver of his spirit and power. And that what possessed Medivh, was such a sliver. Not his full self, but a small part of him.

Sargeras can't get here with his true form because it is very far away. This is confirmed. He relies on avatars containing a portion of his spirit, to bring his will and power across the cosmos, as that is more easily to transport.

Sargeras is indeed a Titan first. His soul won't regenerate a new body when his Titan form is destroyed. Which is what I am sure will happen. But there is no standing evidence in lore that states this has already happened.

War of the Ancients: Sargeras crushed Broxigar, however, unlike the orc, Sargeras bore no smile as the portal he was going to use to enter Azeroth through was rapidly closing. Sargeras stepped into the midst of it, and while he was in the middle of the portal, it imploded and he ceased to be.

Aka DESTROYED

[Calfredd]

I've never seen Blizzard confirm or say that Sargeras' body was destroyed. Not in Chronicles or in any of the new or recent lore at the least, since pieces of Lore have been retconned.. If that's true I suppose that might debunk my theory here. But otherwise I cannot find any posts by Blizzard saying this.

Pretty sure it was the fact that Sargeras approached the Eredar with an army already in tow that debunks your theory. Sargeras had already built up an army but acknowledged the Eredar's abilities as tacticians and wanted to use them to better lead his forces.

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War of the Ancients: Sargeras crushed Broxigar, however, unlike the orc, Sargeras bore no smile as the portal he was going to use to enter Azeroth through was rapidly closing. Sargeras stepped into the midst of it, and while he was in the middle of the portal, it imploded and he ceased to be.

Aka DESTROYED

Chronicles is THE source of canon right now so if it says different than what you put, Chronicles wins by default.

[Caerule]

@Hctaz, I'm putting aside your theories about Sargeras's reasons for possibly being inside Argus for now, as I've given my own view already, and neither can be proven true with full certainty until 7.3 is out. But I'm interested in discussing another part of your post.

I wonder, too, about something else. We can presume that the races on Azeroth grew strong to protect the titan for a couple of reasons: The Well of Eternity transformed trolls into Night elves until they became smart enough to then learn magic and use the energy of well for their own growth. Other creatures like the Humans, dwarves, and gnomes were all titan creations "gifted" with the curse of flesh. So a little bit of titan and a little bit of old god giving them free will to get where they are. But what about the Draenei and the Orcs? Neither of their planets had a world soul. I know the orcs had fel magic and whatnot, but they have lived so long without it and the brown skinned orcs that were not fel-touched were also strong. The draenei were such a powerful race of individuals that Sargeras sought them out personally to be the most powerful race in his army. These races are just as strong as those who formed and evolved over many thousands of years WITH a titan in their planet... I wonder, then, if part of the strength of a planet is determined by the kind of creatures that can be formed on its surface. Like a planet seeped in magic and power will naturally form stronger species on its surface.

It's true, every race on Azeroth holds power of some sort. Some were Titanforged. Some, were changed by Azeroth's magic. Some hold pacts with powerful spirits, or rose from Azeroth's wilds. Azeroth is indeed confirmed to be a special place. So your question about how Orcs and Draenei can compare is an interesting one.

Chronicles II shed some light on the Orcs, as coming from a planet unique in its own right. Unlike Azeroth, where the fifth element of Spirit was mostly absorbed by the Titan soul within, Draenor was its opposite, and had more of it than ever seen, giving birth to extra-ordinary life-force. Nature so overwhelming, it grew sentient and all-consuming. So the Titan Aggramar built the gigantic elemental giant Grond to battle these sentient manifestations of nature. From the fragments and creations of the battle between Grond and the Sporemounds, would rise the colossi and Genesaur. The Magnarons. The Botani. And when nature's spores began to infect the elemental forces, the Gronn, the Ogres and the Orcs. So like Azeroth's mortals of Titan hands and Curse of flesh, Orcs are of Titan hands and nature's spirit.

Now what makes Draenei special? That, is unclear. They were in tune with magic, which could mean that they too were Titanforged. They embraced technology, science and all sorts of magic. This was aided in this artifact by an ancient artifact known as the Ata'mal Crystal, which seems to have ties to the Light, but could also be Titan in origin. Whatever made them special, those that rose would change further. Most of them, by the infusion of fel. The rest, by 25.000 years working with the Light. Were the original Eredar weaker than a race born to Azeroth, before 25.000 years of hardships and living with the Light? It is possible.

- - - Updated - - -

War of the Ancients: Sargeras crushed Broxigar, however, unlike the orc, Sargeras bore no smile as the portal he was going to use to enter Azeroth through was rapidly closing. Sargeras stepped into the midst of it, and while he was in the middle of the portal, it imploded and he ceased to be.

Aka DESTROYED

As @Calfredd said, Chronicles is the source of canon, and it tells us what truly happened:

"As Sargeras prepared to emerge from the portal, the Highborne's spellwork unraveled and an unstable vortex of arcane energies ignited within the Well of Eternity. The fount buckled in upon itself. In that moment, Sargeras was ripped back into the Twisting Nether. Volatile energies whipped out from the collapsing Well of Eternity, hurling most of the Legion's ranks into Nether as well. As their roars of fury echoes across the Nether, massive earthquakes began rupturing the crust of Azeroth."

[Mojo03]

Be prepared to be...

Extremely underwhelmed by how Sargeras plays out.

Calling it now.

[Camthur]

Some people seem to think not seeing Sargeras means he must asleep/floating around incorporeal/whatever. Look at it from another perspective. Sargeras is THE MOST POWERFUL being in known existence. Sure, you might try to say that the Void Lords are probably powerful too, but they can't even manifest themselves into our dimension. (and the Old Gods are basically chumps compared to a Titan) This of course is only true until Blizzard decides to pull some other lore out of their a... err imaginations. If they felt like it, they could totally say the Titans survived somehow or that Elune is some immense power in the cosmos.

Now, if you happen to be the most powerful being ever who can slice planets in half, you don't exactly skip around the cosmos doing chores. Sargeras is the nuclear option when the Burning Legion generally runs around with a fly swatter by comparison.

[Skoll Shorties]

The theory was already a stretch I stated that when I first made it. Its plausible but also not plausible. Though I tend to side with what many people are saying it is far more possible that my theory that Sargeras is Argus or rather inside of it at the moment, than the second part of my theory of Sargeras being Argus prior. Again both are pretty stretchy and I am fully aware i'm jumping the gun but I am intrigued by the thought that Argus itself is Sargeras resting.

[Devorandom]

That would be interesting.

[Hctaz]

@Hctaz, I'm putting aside your theories about Sargeras's reasons for possibly being inside Argus for now, as I've given my own view already, and neither can be proven true with full certainty until 7.3 is out. But I'm interested in discussing another part of your post.

It's true, every race on Azeroth holds power of some sort. Some were Titanforged. Some, were changed by Azeroth's magic. Some hold pacts with powerful spirits, or rose from Azeroth's wilds. Azeroth is indeed confirmed to be a special place. So your question about how Orcs and Draenei can compare is an interesting one.

Chronicles II shed some light on the Orcs, as coming from a planet unique in its own right. Unlike Azeroth, where the fifth element of Spirit was mostly absorbed by the Titan soul within, Draenor was its opposite, and had more of it than ever seen, giving birth to extra-ordinary life-force. Nature so overwhelming, it grew sentient and all-consuming. So the Titan Aggramar built the gigantic elemental giant Grond to battle these sentient manifestations of nature. From the fragments and creations of the battle between Grond and the Sporemounds, would rise the colossi and Genesaur. The Magnarons. The Botani. And when nature's spores began to infect the elemental forces, the Gronn, the Ogres and the Orcs. So like Azeroth's mortals of Titan hands and Curse of flesh, Orcs are of Titan hands and nature's spirit.

Now what makes Draenei special? That, is unclear. They were in tune with magic, which could mean that they too were Titanforged. They embraced technology, science and all sorts of magic. This was aided in this artifact by an ancient artifact known as the Ata'mal Crystal, which seems to have ties to the Light, but could also be Titan in origin. Whatever made them special, those that rose would change further. Most of them, by the infusion of fel. The rest, by 25.000 years working with the Light. Were the original Eredar weaker than a race born to Azeroth, before 25.000 years of hardships and living with the Light? It is possible.

Hmm... I mean they obviously possessed a higher intelligence then most sentient species that Sargeras saw... I guess most other titan world soul planets weren't as "fortunate" as Azeroth and had part of their outer shell ripped apart so that the magic energies could escape. Most didn't have races born from the old god's curse of flesh being used on titan creations. I assume those planets are almost devoid of anything powerful since I'm guessing the titan wouldn't let those energies seep out unless it was forced out. The stuff with Draenor makes sense as well, though I'm confused as to how a titan world soul would remove that aspect from other planets. But anyway, the way Argus is made to sound prior to it becoming a Legion world was like it was relatively conflict free, yet there were still a powerful race living there. You see the orc become strong through conflict, Azeroth became strong through conflict... But Argus seems to have bred a strong race without the need of conflict... or if there was conflict it seems to have ended long enough for the planet to be a sparkling utopia of science and magic, yet the race is still powerful. It stilled attracted Sargeras' eye even without a show of strength.

[Caerule]

I'm confused as to how a titan world soul would remove that aspect from other planets.

To answer your question, worlds seem to differ in the strength of their elemental forces. Spirit balances the other four, so worlds with much of it, have calm elemental forces. Worlds with little of it, have restless elemental forces. I don't think having so little Spirit as remained on Azeroth is natural for worlds with souls. Rather, it seems to be because Azeroth's world soul is much more powerful than other world souls. Azeroth is unique. Normally you can't even sense if a world is a Titan, before it awakens. Yet Azeroth's soul is powerful enough to be sensed, even before awakening. Chronicle describes its primal state as such:

"As the nascent Titan developed, elemental spirits roamed across the world's surface. Over the ages, these beings became ever more erratic and destructive. The burgeoning world-soul was so vast, that it had drawn in and consumed must of the fifth element, Spirit. Without this primordial force to create balance, Azeroth's elemental spirits descended into chaos".

This seems to indicate that this state is unusual, because Azeroth's soul is so massive and strong.

[VladimirM]

Sargeras is not Argus or any planet.

Sargeras was a fully matured Titan thousands of years before he discovered Argus and the Eredar.

Exactly
How isn't this common knowledge after over a decade of WoW universe...

[Jokubas]

I like this theory.

It's certainly a possibility, as we have no definite fact on what Sargeras' current state is. In the history of the franchise, he started out dead, then became a spirit that possessed Medivh that ended up dead, then he was implied to be missing a body but still floating around somewhere. As it currently stands, while the Chronicle didn't say he lost his body, it didn't exactly say he didn't either. As the original poster pointed out, his body has been conspicuously missing from the view of Gul'dan trying to summon his spirit, and Kil'jaeden was using some sort of communicator with no physical Sargeras in sight of Argus.

Also, with the Legion pulling off the biggest invasion of Azeroth ever, and the War of the Ancient culminating in Sargeras almost physically stepping through the portal, it seems weird he'd have someone put him in Illidan's body instead of just letting him in through a larger and more stable portal.

I believe that Sargeras is still a spirit in search of a host. With most eligible characters saved or gone, Argus seems like a pretty good bet. What better for an ex-planet to inhabit than another planet?

It would also put a different perspective on Kil'jaeden's comment about paying with his world, too. You'd think that even with all their fel magic, the eredar could be more careful with their world than splitting it and hollowing it out. However, if that was actually an active choice to give Sargeras a new host, it would make a lot more sense. Finally, it would give a pretty epic climax to the story, and make the new portal between worlds the perfect window for an urgent and dramatic showdown (I'm not even expecting much, but I've been working on the assumption that Sargeras is dead or close to it for years, so it doesn't really matter to me).

[purebalance]

Why is lore so difficult for so many players to grasp, his body was destroyed, Blizzard confirmed that Titans don't regenerate like Demon's do, his soul is around, but he'll never have a body unless he finds a host strong enough to contain his soul.

lol why is lore so difficult for you?!?!

Sargeras is a titan. If his body is destroyed, his soul is as well. Norgannon had to cast a massive spell that pretty much practically failed to send the titans into the keepers. Ra(den) got the memories and some power, but otherwise we have 0 indication anything else happened. It isn't/wasn't Amanthul himself inhabiting Ra which is why he went into a depression.

If Sargeras' body was destroyed, he would be gone completely.

[jcf190]

lol why is lore so difficult for you?!?!

Sargeras is a titan. If his body is destroyed, his soul is as well. Norgannon had to cast a massive spell that pretty much practically failed to send the titans into the keepers. Ra(den) got the memories and some power, but otherwise we have 0 indication anything else happened. It isn't/wasn't Amanthul himself inhabiting Ra which is why he went into a depression.

If Sargeras' body was destroyed, he would be gone completely.

Except Sargeras is a living font of fel energy, which is what gives demons the ability to have an immortal soul, which means none of what you said applies.

[purebalance]

Except Sargeras is a living font of fel energy, which is what gives demons the ability to have an immortal soul, which means none of what you said applies.

Uh no he isn't a font of fel energy. That is head canon. Literally that is head canon. Stop spewing head canon. He can harness it, but he is not a font of it.

[Radaney]

Sargeras found the Eredar and Argus whilst he was already a Titan so the only thing that could make sense in this theory is Sargeras sacrificing Argus after the WotA to restore himself.

But the Chronicle never stated Sargeras' body was vaporised so that might not of even happened now.