I hope M+ is scrapped

[Verdugo]

If you remove the timer the highest level of m+ would be about doing 1 pull with all your CD's and then going AFK until they're back. Or going with 3 tanks and 2 healers. The timer is there to ensure that you keep playing and somewhat stick to the formula Blizzard wants you to (1 tank, 1 healer, 3 dps).

Well, now we have a fucking aoe fest, I guess thats how blizztard intended m+ dungeons to be?

[Temp name]

Well, now we have a fucking aoe fest, I guess thats how blizztard intended m+ dungeons to be?

At the lower levels? Yeah. But when you get up to the level where you're supposed to be (instead of just farming +10's all day) suddenly you can't just pull the entire dungeon and AoE it all down

[DaHomieG]

Thats not even the point how the hell you get your AP? At this point you must be at least 10 points behind everyone.

Wym? I get my AP from WQs, first PvP win of the day and other random shit. My artifact is AK 30 and I have 41 traits purchased thus far. I have two more left to buy from the new traits from Power Unleashed.

Am I doing something wrong? :c

[Guyviroth]

Oh! Oh! I wanna get in on this!

-Extremely easy, no challenge at all

You probably haven't done anything past Mythic 10...

-Gives raid-equivalent gear for effort that does not equal to the effort that's put into raiding mythic

Because it's an alternative progression path for smaller groups, has been that and will continue to be that. So deal with it?

-Bred a whole generation of M+ heroes who think that they're hot shit

Oh, you mean like what top end raiding has done since WoW's inception? Case in point: You.

-3 tiers of cutting edge achievements isn't enough to get into a M+ run

I think this is a follow on from the last point, which is ironic. Get your guildies or make your own group. Simple, right?

-MANDATORY if you are a mythic raider because the weekly chest is too good to pass up

If by "Mandatory" you mean "I need to get this one piece of gear to up my ilvl because I'm too shit without it and probably shouldn't even be in a Mythic raid", then sure. It's mandatory. Lol.

Need I say more?

I hope to Green Jesus and Purple Moses you don't, because my IQ dropped more than wool does from mobs in Hillsbrad.

[Verdugo]

This is what people consider hard now? Please tell, do you also think that high level greater rifts are also hard when unavoidable damage instantly kills you?

[Temp name]

Wym? I get my AP from WQs, first PvP win of the day and other random shit. My artifact is AK 30 and I have 41 traits purchased thus far. I have two more left to buy from the new traits from Power Unleashed.

Am I doing something wrong? :c

I'm going to assume you're fairly casual, so no.
Most people on these forums are 52+ in several specs though with AK 40 (Which you can get in a couple days now)

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This is what people consider hard now? Please tell, do you also think that high level greater rifts are also hard when unavoidable damage instantly kills you?

Yes.
More damage, more health, and more punishment when you fuck up makes content harder.
If it doesn't, then no game with difficulty settings are any harder on the higher difficulties than on the easy one, because guess what, things do more damage, and they have more health.

[Destinas]

It's fine for those that enjoy it. For some people it's a challenge, for others simply fun. Personally, it doesn't affect me because I tend to do more laid back content in general. I would imagine it will be updated and tweaked in future patches/expansions, however.

Most of the complaints I notice are more about the playerbase than the system itself. This has always been a problem for some people when it comes to raids, but since WoD it shifted to Mythics, and now M+. The solution to most group content is to find people you trust and enjoy, whether that be guildies, RL friends, or whatever else is available to you.

[Northern Goblin]

When mechanics you can normally ignore suddenly are ramped up to be deadly, when bosses have enough health that you can't cheese them by popping lust and burning, the scaling mechanic of M+ makes things significantly different.

OP's argument is heavily flawed for reasons people have explained, keystones have given a lot more people access to content. It's not a case of difficulty, it's a case of finding the numbers for accessibility.

Content that requires smaller groups will always be popular by default, even if the skill level is equal or higher.

[Verdugo]

Yes.
More damage, more health, and more punishment when you fuck up makes content harder.
If it doesn't, then no game with difficulty settings are any harder on the higher difficulties than on the easy one, because guess what, things do more damage, and they have more health.

Now you are trying to tell me that shit like Skyrim difficulty slider somehow makes the game harder... please.

[Sliske]

-Extremely easy, no challenge at all
-Gives raid-equivalent gear for effort that does not equal to the effort that's put into raiding mythic
-Bred a whole generation of M+ heroes who think that they're hot shit
-3 tiers of cutting edge achievements isn't enough to get into a M+ run
-MANDATORY if you are a mythic raider because the weekly chest is too good to pass up

Need I say more?

1. High level m+ is harder than world 1k+ mythic raiding, which is what you're on, if you're even raiding at all.
2. It doesn't
3. I would take a group of no lifer m+ players that run +15s all day over some moron mythic raider who shows up, gets 70th percentile logs then logs off until next raid day
4. You probably got declined because of your spec, not your achievements. People really do not give a shit if you link keystone master - you're still not joining my run as an enhancement shaman.
5. Lots of things are mandatory when you play a game mode that requires you to min max. Cry me a river

[Wilfire]

That makes no sense, as the difficulty only increases

No it doesn't. With a few rare exceptions, all dungeon bosses have 1-2 mechanics that you need to watch out for and have just 1 phase. They are so easy in fact that Blizzard has to make them do 200% more dmg and inundate them with bonus "affixes" even to make them remotely resemble something of a challenge. No one cares about M+ past 15 because it doesn't give bonus rewards just as nobody cares about Proving Grounds past wave 30. 15+ is way too easy for the sort of ilvl that they give.

Gives people more things to do. Which people complained about in WoD.

Congratz, in a game with an already dwindling player base you just f*cked over the people who do raiding and PvP and redirected people to mind-numbingly easy Diablo 3-style grind. Very healthy for the game.

Who the fuck cares LMAO.

Mythic raiders and top-end arena players can and should have an inflated ego because they do the hardest content that the game has to offer. When casuals start to have an inflated ego as well all it does is make the toxic playerbase even more toxic.

-Never done hard M+

The only people who think that M+ is hard are casuals and people who delude themselves into thinking that M+ is top-end endgame PvE content.

-Bad at math

Yes, I was being a bit lenient. In most cases, M+ gives BETTER gear and in LARGER quantities than mythic raiding. The only exception is tier pieces and a couple of trinkets.

-conceited player getting carried in M raid

Ad hominem. Try again.

-Entitled

If I'm clearing the most difficult content in game, I deserve to have the best gear

Level appropriate M+ is way harder than Level appropriate raiding in that an individual is 20% of the success.
Once a raid is aware of the mechanics, in a raid a typical dpser is 5% of the success.

So I vote we scrap raiding instead OP.

Someone here never done any mythic raiding before. Mythic raids have mechanics that instantly wipe the raid if even 1 person fucks them up. In M+ you can have everyone except the healer playing with their thumbs up their butts and still clear it.

[Temp name]

Now you are trying to tell me that shit like Skyrim difficulty slider somehow makes the game harder... please.

Yeah, it does. That's literally the point of the difficulty sliders and difficulty options in games.

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Congratz, in a game with an already dwindling player base you just f*cked over the people who do raiding and PvP and redirected people to mind-numbingly easy Diablo 3-style grind. Very healthy for the game.

Giving the majority something to do at the expense of the minority?
Seems very healthy to the game for me.

[Verdugo]

Giving the majority something to do at the expense of the minority?
Seems very healthy to the game for me.

Thats why Diablo 3 has a healthy community.

Oh wait, its dead, just like your sense of difficulty.

[enak101]

Guys i'm linking cutting edge on my 880 DH alt and i'm not getting invited to +10 pugs what the frick

[Usagi Senshi]

Thats why Diablo 3 has a healthy community.

Oh wait, its dead, just like your sense of difficulty.

*compares a 1-4 player ARPG to an MMO*

Hilarity ensued!

[Dakara]

4. You probably got declined because of your spec, not your achievements. People really do not give a shit if you link keystone master - you're still not joining my run as an enhancement shaman.

I don't play a Shaman, but this right here is why (IMHO), Mythic + and the former challenge modes are garbage. Just like Arena, there's always going to be a top comp at one end with poorly tuned classes/specs that need to be carried by their guild mates at the other.

I'm all for interesting 5 man content but not this system of recycling content with affixes as if it's Diablo 3.

[Aeula]

I hope they at least stop trying to push us into Mythic dungeons with quests. Tired of hoarding quests in my questlog before doing a dungeon.

[Verdugo]

*compares a 1-4 player ARPG to an MMO*

Hilarity ensued!

*compares 1-4 player ARPG to an MMO with its only hypotetical endgame being 5-man instanced timed PvE*

Let the lol commence.

[muto]

@OP link your Wowprogress so I can see that +20 Tyrannical Cathedral of Eternal Night that you didn't do, since M+ is so easy.

[Temp name]

Thats why Diablo 3 has a healthy community.

Oh wait, its dead, just like your sense of difficulty.

It has a cyclical community that comes back each new patch. Like WoW does.