prot dev's Q&A

[Dascha]

Can we at least lol at this guy?

"any plans to take a look at protection warrior artifact ability? Feels very underwelming compared to say Guardian ability.
Being able to move during the ability or at least being immune to knockbacks during channel would go a long way to helping it fit in more than niche encounter abilities.

We discussed a lot of different implementations for Neltharion's Fury, but in the end we felt like the focus should be on the shield, and it's relation to Neltharion. There's something cool about standing your ground as the tank, and the power within the Artifact breathing Shadowflame on your enemies.
It is difficult to directly compare the two abilities to each other, as in different situations they may be stronger or weaker than the other one, but they are both powerful tanking tools. We decided that part of the mastery of using the ability would involve knowing when a good and safe time to activate Neltharion's Fury would be."

well...we have been asked not to shout in forums and etc about firing people from their job...but laughing should be fine i guess....what does he mean??? like we should ask the bosses nicely not to kill us for like 3 more sec so we can use our "defensive" ability when it's "safe" to use?!!!

[Valech]

Can we at least lol at this guy?

"any plans to take a look at protection warrior artifact ability? Feels very underwelming compared to say Guardian ability.
Being able to move during the ability or at least being immune to knockbacks during channel would go a long way to helping it fit in more than niche encounter abilities.

We discussed a lot of different implementations for Neltharion's Fury, but in the end we felt like the focus should be on the shield, and it's relation to Neltharion. There's something cool about standing your ground as the tank, and the power within the Artifact breathing Shadowflame on your enemies.
It is difficult to directly compare the two abilities to each other, as in different situations they may be stronger or weaker than the other one, but they are both powerful tanking tools. We decided that part of the mastery of using the ability would involve knowing when a good and safe time to activate Neltharion's Fury would be."

well...we have been asked not to shout in forums and etc about firing people from their job...but laughing should be fine i guess....what does he mean??? like we should ask the bosses nicely not to kill us for like 3 more sec so we can use our "defensive" ability when it's "safe" to use?!!!

I find myself using nelth´s mostly in certain situations.

1) channeled physical barrages like annihilate or fel claws
2) with a number of melee adds on you like the murlocs at harjatan

I never find myself using it as a part of my normal rotation. This is my main source of grief, not that I cannot move while channeling.

[Dascha]

I find myself using nelth´s mostly in certain situations.

1) channeled physical barrages like annihilate or fel claws
2) with a number of melee adds on you like the murlocs at harjatan

I never find myself using it as a part of my normal rotation. This is my main source of grief, not that I cannot move while channeling.

well...it's strong when it's strong if u know what i mean...i use it once or twice per week too...my point was having devs who know so little about this game.
it's a defensive ability with some "iconic" shadowfire damge for the good old "class fantasy" which is being used when it's needed not when it's safe...that one is Draught of Souls!!! which btw....you were immune to knock back and stuns when u were channeling it...
and also i agree with you (i guess) the ability needs a total rework...being immune to knock back and etc will most likely not make it any more useful than it is now.

[Deleted]

but they are both powerful tanking tools.

I loled hard at this... every single tank articaft ability is usefull if not for defensive, surely for offensive...

Except Neltharion's Fart
The damage is minimal
the "powerfull" effect is almost exactly the same as pressing shield block
and you cannot use offensive abilities to generate rage for IP making it survivability loss even...
Not to mention when something pushes you 1 milimeter it's gone

So far I found astounding 2 bosses that it can be usefull if everything other fails: Cenarius and Spell Blade
But in fact, I could do both bosses without it

[Valech]

I loled hard at this... every single tank articaft ability is usefull if not for defensive, surely for offensive...

true, to some extent

The damage is minimal

true.

the "powerfull" effect is almost exactly the same as pressing shield block

false. If you find the difference between blocks and critical blocks to be minor, the whole class design might be just not for you. look at our mastery. For certain situation, nelth´s is powerful.

and you cannot use offensive abilities to generate rage for IP making it survivability loss even...

true. You really to plan ahead to have enough rage available to IP during its cast. I dislike this as well.

Not to mention when something pushes you 1 milimeter it's gone

happens rarely but true.

So far I found astounding 2 bosses that it can be usefull if everything other fails: Cenarius and Spell Blade

Kil jeaden perhaps. Might have some use on other bosses with a lot of melee adds.

But in fact, I could do both bosses without it

yeah, you could probably kill both bosses without thunderclap as well.

Don´t get me wrong, I dislike the design of the ability and I as well think, that it´s usefulness is very limited. But let´s not paint it worse then it is.

[Deleted]

false. If you find the difference between blocks and critical blocks to be minor, the whole class design might be just not for you. look at our mastery. For certain situation, nelth´s is powerful.

I mean with 60% mastery + t19 2p poping shield block and chanelling NLF is almost exact same effect. You will probably crit block in those 3 seconds of shield block anyways compared to NLF and you can also generate rage for IP

And that is also my biggest complain about it...
NLF is just our mastery (that is very high %) but 100%, Nothing new, nothing great

[Dascha]

I mean with 60% mastery + t19 2p poping shield block and chanelling NLF is almost exact same effect. You will probably crit block in those 3 seconds of shield block anyways compared to NLF and you can also generate rage for IP

so early to go this much off topic but. well it actually is strong. it's free so you can invest that 15 rage into another IP...plus it doesn't use the charges of your shield block, so while you are channeling recharged and also it always critically blocks. but of course it scales negatively as we gear up and become more useless?!!!! ( can't even imagine at this point)
but that's not the point,
what i was trying to say was the fact that a developer doesn't really understand the difference between dps and a tank. we don't use our CDs to optimize we use them to survive. it's like when there is a big blockable hit(5th stack of fel claw) and the knock back are coming at the same time...and please don't go on and tell me...ok use another CD for this situation, yea i know... but it only makes an already useless ability even more useless.

the big problem for me here is ....when i tank on a paladin, i use Eye of Tyr almost on CD because, it deals damage, it reduces my damage taken there is no draw back and also, the rotation actually has a free GCD for it (again don't go smart on me, i know i should save it when it's needed) but when it comes to NF, we don't realistically use it beside once or twice a week...

[Anuibus]

well since 7.2.5, it no longer resets your swing timer, so its slightly better than it was.

[Deleted]

I use it. In M+ when I'm low on rage, and both TC and SS are on CD, when tanking a huge pack of stuff, I'll channel it for something like 3 seconds until my real spells are back up. Even then I lose on potential devastator resets.

This thing is a joke outside of Spellblade / KJ.

[Deleted]

Well at least the damage component need to be at least trippled.

Right now, my NLF is doing 444k damage over 3 sec... One and a half revenge or thunder clap does the same

That would make is usefull at least as big AoE dps CD


Did a little test on dummy:
NLF with booming voice and Battle cry did 1,075,000 damage on a single target
My Shield slam can crit 1.1-1.3 milion in one GCD

[Anuibus]

I feel like the only good time to use it is right after a swing that doesn't proc a shield slam, while both thunderclap and shield slam are on cool down and revenge is not procced free. And shield block needs to be down and not have full charges, the incoming damage needs to be physical, and movement needs to not be coming up.

All that said, you may as well just never use it and be as well off since improper use reduces your damage and survivability.

[Jastall]

It should do more damage, generate Rage and make you immune to knockback and other forms of CC. Where's the fantasy in raising your shield in a wall of steel if a murloc can still punt you?

[Heladys]

happens rarely but true.

Happens far too often, actually. Sure with a boss you can plan around stuns/knockbacks, but often the better time to use it is when you're facing a lot of adds, and guess what - one of them is going to have a stun/knockback and willing to use it unpredictably in terms of avoidance, but entirely predictably so it goes off half a millisecond into our channel to break it. Starting the channel is also a great way (sarcasm) to bait a ground-effect cast that you have to move away from, too.

[gonzajd777]

true, to some extent

false. If you find the difference between blocks and critical blocks to be minor, the whole class design might be just not for you. look at our mastery. For certain situation, nelth´s is powerful.

its true, shield block effect its almost the same with 50% and old tier T19, shield blocking with 70% of crit bloking... Nelth fury its a crap... only use when not charge of SB and losing the buff... until the new charge is up.

shitty migation/damage/healing compared to another tank class artifacts

[Deleted]

Cenarius' spear, Mage Tower Kruul's Annihilate, Spellblade Annihilate and Felclaws are literally the only 4 abilities where this ability is extremely useful, and then it collects dust pretty much everywhere else.

[KrotosTheTank]

Cenarius' spear, Mage Tower Kruul's Annihilate, Spellblade Annihilate and Felclaws are literally the only 4 abilities where this ability is extremely useful, and then it collects dust pretty much everywhere else.

Best part is, that's once per "tier" (at least this time it's the last boss) and on a boss that once you beat you cannot do again.

I appreciate that where it's good, it's great, but being able to borderline use it out of our spellbook due to infrequency is horrible.

[Toppy]

I think its fairly safe to assume that very few people at blizzard, certainly no one working on class balance, actually actively plays Warrior.

Remember how they flat out stated in the past they ignored Warrior feedback? That in some way does imply they had no inhouse feedback. Even just looking at how long it takes for any work to get done regarding Warrior (and how they likely get the least dev feedback) backs the assertions that no one at blizzard is playing it. We know Holinka did, but he's (thankfully) gone.

[Valkien]

"any plans to take a look at protection warrior artifact ability? Feels very underwelming compared to say Guardian ability.
Being able to move during the ability or at least being immune to knockbacks during channel would go a long way to helping it fit in more than niche encounter abilities."

We discussed a lot of different implementations for Neltharion's Fury, but in the end we felt like the focus should be on the shield, and it's relation to Neltharion. There's something cool about standing your ground as the tank, and the power within the Artifact breathing Shadowflame on your enemies.

The highlighted part just seem to be self contradicting, as standing your ground would exactly mean not getting knockbacked or stunned.

And their argument about an ability being alright due the aesthetics, yeah I laughed quite hard at that "At least you look pretty while doing it", I'm sure raid leaders around the world won't bench you for that.

[KrotosTheTank]

The highlighted part just seem to be self contradicting, as standing your ground would exactly mean not getting knockbacked or stunned.

And their argument about an ability being alright due the aesthetics, yeah I laughed quite hard at that "At least you look pretty while doing it", I'm sure raid leaders around the world won't bench you for that.

If that's their only goal, why not go for more? The flame is tiny at best, make it a wave of flames like those goblins in BRH. Make it at least look impressive, not like we're holding up a lighter at a concert.

[Arenis]

I wouldn't mind the immobility if it actually felt like a powerful skill. Something that actually makes you feel powerful, even if it were for just 3 seconds. Immune to knockbacks, and either going massive damage or reducing damage taken by an absurd amount.

But no. It does 'meh' damage, decent reduction vs spammy melee.... and has an underwhelming animation.

I think that would be the best description of the skill. underwhelming.