Why I think Europeans can't understand conservative US views

[primalmatter]

Are you referring to the revolution?

I am referring to the founding of the country.

[Deleted]

No, you are denying free will. It doesn't mater if someone wants to be a woman or man. We as humans have cognitive thought and are not driven by instinct. The same way you don't violate some natural order when you take an airplane ride, no force will strike you down if some dude wants to be a chick.



You are entitled to your opinion, but the intertwining religious fundamentalism with conservatives, is exactly why both Goldwater and Ayn Rand demolished what Reagan was turning conservatives into.

Did I say that a male couldn't decide that they wanted to be a female? No. People can do what they want, I honestly don't care. Biologically humans have two genders. This is a fact.

[Felya]

Did I say that a male couldn't decide that they wanted to be a female? No. People can do what they want, I honestly don't care. Biologically humans have two genders. This is a fact.

Did I deny it was a fact? No.

So... why are you repeating it's a fact, instead of addressing my point, that it's an irrelevant thing to bring up. We agree it's a fact... now what? What does that defend? What point is that trying to make? Do you then agree it's a completely meaningless thing to say?

[Deleted]

I guess you can add a failure for Reading Comprehension into that list as well. >_<

I said "Variants of sexuality in male/female animal nature". Not that there were multiple different genders. There are entire pods (or a school, as you probably wouldn't know what a "pod" is) of gay dolphins out there. That Homosexuality/bisexuality is indeed a part of nature.


Ben Carson isn't Conservative? Sarah Palin isn't Conservative? o_O

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/shudder

To think I actually agree with one thing that Ayn Rand said. >_<

Religious fundamentalism is not the same as Conservatism. You can be conservative without being a religious fundamentalist.

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What outside WW2 era ie a bit more modern times would make you say that?

Are you being serious? Ever heard of the Cold War, pal? Or did that one just go over your head

[Deleted]

You don't have a left wing party in terms of what Europeans deem Left Wing.

It's not that we don't understand, its that our political climates are vastly different.

[Felya]

Religious fundamentalism is not the same as Conservatism. You can be conservative without being a religious fundamentalist.

Not true when it comes to voting. If religious fundamentalist are segnificant enough to for the party you support to lean towards them. When you are voting for a conservative candidate, you are voting in supporting the view of those fundamentalists. What's next, you are going to defend liberals, when ever the individual is defined by the actions of the few sharing their ideology? You can claim what you want, but I'll trust Ayn Rand and Goldwater, who denounced the Republican Party for ruining US conservatives, in intertwining religion during Reagan's terms.

[Zandalarian Paladin]

How is that an even remotely just and fair society?
Conservative for me is more of "law of the jungle", the strong feed on the weak.

And just like that, you've spotted one of the core values that separate the left from the right.

Survival of the fittest is, to my understanding, the belief that to survive and thrive we need to be aggressive and focus on "us" first rather than equality. Equality being a resource hog, it siphons resources from parts that would make the US thrive on an international level - economy and military just to name these two. It is the fundamental belief that if you want to make it, you have to always be at your best and lucky.

Technically, it's viable. That it widen the poverty gap is irrelevant as long that it works.

Obviously, anyone who'd rather focus on social issues the slightest may find themselves at odds with this line of thought. It doesn't mean it doesn't make sense, but it's not something (Read: Right values) I can get behind either.

[Felya]

Are you being serious? Ever heard of the Cold War, pal? Or did that one just go over your head

What about it? Ever heard of the guillotine?

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And just like that, you've spotted one of the core values that separate the left from the right.

Survival of the fittest is, to my understanding, the belief that to survive and thrive we need to be aggressive and focus on "us" first rather than equality. Equality being a resource hog, it siphons resources from parts that would make the US thrive on an international level - economy and military just to name these two. It is the fundamental belief that if you want to make it, you have to always be at your best and lucky.

Technically, it's viable. That it widen the poverty gap is irrelevant as long that it works.

Obviously, anyone who'd rather focus on social issues the slightest may find themselves at odds with this line of thought. It doesn't mean it doesn't make sense, but it's not something (Read: Right values) I can get behind either.

It's feudalism...

[Zandalarian Paladin]

It's feudalism...

Yeah well, the right taken to its extreme is just a new word to explain the medieval hierarchy, without the monarchy and with "democracy".

[Deleted]

No, what's strange is that the US has this innate hate/fear for the government branch without a history explaining it.

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WHAT? But people on this forum tell me all the time that every member of the EU is ruled by brussels.

Europeans claim to know so much about the USA without even understanding the entire premise of the USA. We're a country that was founded and created based off of ideals. Unlike most countries that are formed based off ethnic boundaries, America, more than anything, is an idea. The idea being that We The People are in charge. That We The People are born free from the tyranny that our ancestors lived through. We The People are active citizens rather than subjects, and we control the destiny of our Republic. And we can take a look at the rest of the world and see what big and powerful Governments do to their people.

[Felya]

Yeah well, the right taken to its extreme is just a new word to explain the medieval hierarchy, without the monarchy and with "democracy".

Constitutional democracy... how much rhetoric do you hear about people's right to vote versus defending the constitution? There is a reason why the root of Republican is the Republic and Democrats is democracy.

[Deleted]

Not true when it comes to voting. If religious fundamentalist are segnificant enough to for the party you support to lean towards them. When you are voting for a conservative candidate, you are voting in supporting the view of those fundamentalists. What's next, you are going to defend liberals, when ever the individual is defined by the actions of the few sharing their ideology? You can claim what you want, but I'll trust Ayn Rand and Goldwater, who denounced the Republican Party for ruining US conservatives, in intertwining religion during Reagan's terms.

I'm not for religious fundamentalism, and therefore you don't have to be one in order to be conservative. Republican candidates tend have religious views, but other than that most are not fundamentalists.

[Felya]

Europeans claim to know so much about the USA without even understanding the entire premise of the USA. We're a country that was founded and created based off of ideals. Unlike most countries that are formed based off ethnic boundaries, America, more than anything, is an idea. The idea being that We The People are in charge. That We The People are born free from the tyranny that our ancestors lived through. We The People are active citizens rather than subjects, and we control the destiny of our Republic. And we can take a look at the rest of the world and see what big and powerful Governments do to their people.

What if I told you that government is by the people, of the people and for the people? Doesn't that become limiting the power of the people, when ever you argue that government needs to be smaller?

[Deleted]

What about it? Ever heard of the guillotine?

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It's feudalism...

That's a terrible example. The French Revolution was anarchy, disorderly, and corrupt. America doesn't believe in anarchy or corruption. We believe in ordered liberty. There's a reason our revolution succeeded and the French Revolution did not.

[Shadowferal]

I have to wonder if the American desire that many have to go off and be alone in the wilderness (and yes, that means being armed) might play into some of the differences.
I recall reading that someone went camping (American) in Spain and as he put it, it seemed that camping there was more like trying to replicate urban density in a park setting.
He thought he had the campground to himself, nice and secluded...and quiet. Went out to get supplies and returned half hour later to find that two other tents went up...on both sides of his own. (Even the guy wires were intertwined. and then there's the less charming habit to eat dinner late hearing the clanking dishes, babies crying...) wtf? So much space to play with and they had to plant their tents right next to his.
He said he'll never do that again over there.

[Felya]

I'm not for religious fundamentalism, and therefore you don't have to be one in order to be conservative. Republican candidates tend have religious views, but other than that most are not fundamentalists.

You don't define what a conservative is. I can say I'm a unicorn, it doesn't make unicorns human. You are not the conservative ideal... [insert pun about special snowflake]

[Dmitro]

because europe has been leaning left since the 50s
( france sweden as the brightest examples)

bernie sanders is a centrist in europe.
so for their mentality our right-wing ideology is literally hitlerism.

[Deleted]

What if I told you that government is by the people, of the people and for the people? Doesn't that become limiting the power of the people, when ever you argue that government needs to be smaller?

The point is that Government is made by the citizens (voting), it's full of citizens, and that it exists "for the people" in order to protect and support the liberty of the people. Again, it's about ordered liberty for the people, not Government that rules the people.

[Felya]

That's a terrible example. The French Revolution was anarchy, disorderly, and corrupt. America doesn't believe in anarchy or corruption. We believe in ordered liberty. There's a reason our revolution succeeded and the French Revolution did not.

No, it really isn't. It's why you are focusing on the result, instead of the action. 1917 in Russia, also over threw their government, to give more power to the people. Saying Europe is some how more susceptible to government control, contradicts the long history of Europe. I'm pretty sure that's why he said WW2... as by the time 1939 rolled around, Europe has gone through a segnificant change from royalty having their people due for petty causes. Like WW1... it's why Lenin's creed was 'peace, food and land'. It's why the entire concept of Marxism, hinges on the conflict between proletariat and the ruling class.

[Deleted]

You don't define what a conservative is. I can say I'm a unicorn, it doesn't make unicorns human. You are not the conservative ideal... [insert pun about special snowflake]

Except I am. I have conservative beliefs. They're not the same as religious fundamentalist beliefs. Republicans are both conservatives and religious fundamentalists. It's a party of two different belief systems that can work together (sometimes). So really, what you mean, is that I'm not the ideal Republican. I agree.