more tuning for Aff and Destro on the 20th (damage of all abilities reduced by 5%)

[Liarparadox]

Yeah so far the data is showing that Aff is quite strong. And I'm not aware of any reason to think it won't scale very well.

If people are really worried at this point about "burst dmg" or priority dmg and don't think aff fits the bill; then respec to destro. Locks just have it really good atm.

I could also see an Aff nerf incoming.

[satori sartori]

Can we talk about havoc?
I think its too good for focusing down adds, I think destro needs to be brought down to affliction levels of target switching.

I expect havoc to only work for incineration, but only after immolation has been applied to manually to the target.
It is literally, hands down, most powerful spec in ToS right now and it will only get more ridiculous in Mythic.

I fully expect it will get another nerf pre-Mythic patch.

[Gaidax]

Can we talk about havoc?
I think its too good for focusing down adds, I think destro needs to be brought down to affliction levels of target switching.

I expect havoc to only work for incineration, but only after immolation has been applied to manually to the target.
It is literally, hands down, most powerful spec in ToS right now and it will only get more ridiculous in Mythic.

I fully expect it will get another nerf pre-Mythic patch.

Listen, pal, I and my guild just did full HC run except for Kil'jaeden and so far there were only 2 encounters where add switching was a critical thing and in both Affliction switched incredibly well by banking shards and dumping UAs into it - these are Sisters of the Moon, where you need to nuke down Moontalon and Avatar where you need to nuke Maiden once in a while to prevent oneshot.

Both of these things Aff lock we have did with flying colors being among the top bursters there.

And yes Destruction IS still better at switching, because DUUUH it needs to have SOME niche? But Aff is damn strong at it too and has plenty of shit Destro does not have - like being able to frikkin' run around losing little damage, for one.

Then seeing overall scores - Aff averages good 4% above runner-up spec in ToS. You are not fooling anyone trying to make up some shitty story about how aff is not mongo strong at the moment.


If you are trying to sell https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/13#dataset=90 as somehow not an indicator, then I have a bridge to sell to you.

You'd have a case if, for example T20 would be horrid for Aff and brilliant for everyone else, but even that is not the thing.

[Liarparadox]

I think destro needs to be brought down to affliction levels of target switching.

The moment you make such an absurd claim, you lose all credibility.

[satori sartori]

"please nerf this spec in the very own class I play because I like the other spec more"
Lets not talk about credibility

[Gaidax]

"please nerf this spec in the very own class I play because I like the other spec more"
Lets not talk about credibility

It's not the point of "please nerf" it's a point of simply being decent and not bullshit your way through claiming to somehow be weak or not viable despite the overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

[Liarparadox]

"please nerf this spec in the very own class I play because I like the other spec more"
Lets not talk about credibility

I main affliction. I played destro for literally Elisande alone. My AP is more weighted to AFF than destro. That quote is nothing more than what you hear in your head. I've never asked for AFF to get nerfed. But it wouldn't surprise me at all if it was nerfed. And I like Aff more so than the other specs. Destro's gameplay got better but still not crazy about it; demo's gameplay can go die in a fire. Try again.

Locks are in a great state. I don't know why it's so difficult for some locks to admit this. At the moment, AFF locks seem to be pretty darn good. We have very little to bitch about. But I guess these wouldn't be the lock forums without all the bitching.

[Deleted]

https://images-ext-2.discordapp.net/...005&height=632

Seems the nerf was super harsh! Warlocks are bottom look

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I wonder if now, having looked over the ToS logs, you think you were actually wrong and maybe overreacted at the small nerf....

If you still don't think the small nerf was needed then Locks would be 15% ahead of others rather than 10% lol

[satori sartori]

https://images-ext-2.discordapp.net/...005&height=632

Seems the nerf was super harsh! Warlocks are bottom look

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I wonder if now, having looked over the ToS logs, you think you were actually wrong and maybe overreacted at the small nerf....

If you still don't think the small nerf was needed then Locks would be 15% ahead of others rather than 10% lol

looking at all bosses statistics is like claiming you're a gifted retard

[Deleted]

Gaidax, how do you suggest aff is nerfed? If you want to pull it down to average on those fights where it's doing crazy good (sometimes doing stuf flike cheesing such as using Absolute Corruption and then phase switching on Host)...you do realise how shit it would be on those fights where it's middle of the pack, right?

A flat nerf to "bring it in line" for stuff like Host and Inquisition would recreate the problem we had in Emerald Nightmare, where they balanced aff around multidotting and lef tit in the garbage for single target fights such as Nythendra.

But that's th eproblem Blizz created for themselves, by baking damage into dots which have no limits on how you can spread them.

If they nerf aff overall, they'd have to buff up something like Malefic Grasp when they've just repeatedly nerfed it. IMHO MG should have been left at 40% and the overall buff something like 10%. But sadly, they decided to go with "fantasy over practicality" and play the old, tired game they've been playing with aff since at leastback in Ulduar.

"Stronger dots! Hang on, aff is overpowered as fuck on multidot fights! Nerf! Wait, aff is now shit when it can't multidot! Let's play around with Haunt and Drain Soul! Wait, now those are so good they are the default when aff shold be multidotting!" etc etc...


You're such a good player I;m surprised you place such importance on aggregate dps rankings. Aff is being bent by some fights. That's happening to other classes to, there are several where Balance Druids, Arcane Mages, Warriors are also pulling crazy numbers

Moreover, if you look at the individual encounters, aff is actuall ymiddle of the pack on four out of nine, because that nerf would have to be *huge*, like 10% at least. You wouldn;t look at Goroth and say "hey aff clearly needs a 10% nerf". It;s being bent by two encounters where aff is crazy good. Curiously enough its where SP's are really good too, you'd almost think it had something to do with strong dots you can "cleave" with.

It's like pre 7.2 Nighthold. Aff was being bent by stupid stuff on Skorpyron.

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Then seeing overall scores - Aff averages good 4% above runner-up spec in ToS. You are not fooling anyone trying to make up some shitty story about how aff is not mongo strong at the moment..

Cos average scores are deeply meaningful as we saw from pre-7.2 Skorpyron Soul Flame fests and indeed the way that EN averages weren;t bent out of shape by Shadow Priests abusing surrender to madness on Xavius

I mean you could average dungeon damage for aff and then ignore what happens to the blobs in Arcway...I guess.

[Gaidax]

How would I offer Aff to be nerfed?

I'd offer to wait until next week and Blizz will just show how. You are really cute if you somehow think it won't happen.

I am pretty sure that for starters Absolute Corruption will get reduced or just a blanket reduction across the board, either of these is likely.

[Lucrece]

Average is not skewed by Skorpyron because that boss was not used for the average.

Aff was strong in NH because it's fucking strong.

It has a supremely good relationship with mastery stacking, and now haste also climbed somewhere around that synergy level. Affliction just scales incredibly well. They can nerf it by some other 3% and down the line in the next tier it'll need nerfing still again.

I hope destro doesn't get further nerfs. For once it's doing well in the expansion.

Demo needs serious revision. it's such a dumpster fire spec.

[Count Zero]

If you are trying to sell https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/13#dataset=90 as somehow not an indicator, then I have a bridge to sell to you.

You'd have a case if, for example T20 would be horrid for Aff and brilliant for everyone else, but even that is not the thing.

Aff may very well get nerfed again but, yes, sorting by all bosses is bad data presentation.

[Deleted]

How would I offer Aff to be nerfed?

I'd offer to wait until next week and Blizz will just show how. You are really cute if you somehow think it won't happen.

I am pretty sure that for starters Absolute Corruption will get reduced or just a blanket reduction across the board, either of these is likely.

OK, so you're calling for nerfs but you can't say how because you can't think of any way to do it that wouldn't result in affliction being made absolutely dire for four fight sout of nine.

There's just no way to "fix" the overperformance for Host and Inquisition with a simple blanket nerf, because the nerf would have to be huge, at least 10% or maybe more, and you can;t look at the four single target fights where aff is middle of the pack and say "yeah, we'd want them to do 10% less"

Look, I agree, there's a problem, but it's not that aff is overpowered, it's got a design flaw that lets it run riot it some situations.

Like I said, I'd suggest a nerf to the dots and a buff to Malefic Grasp or Drain Soul, th eproblem is that would mean the devs admitting they need to revert the changes they only just put in lol

Like I said, just posting an aggregate of all bosses is just a plain terrible way to measure performance. It's necessary to examine the context, why is affliction so strong on certain fights, answer because they baked the damage into dots thatyou can have on multiple targets, so aff can essentially double up with two targets, or triple with three.

As to the rest, why do you feel the need to get personal and use condescending terms by calling people cute and sweet and the rest?

[Gaidax]

Oh please, shut it will ya?

Here is simple fix - Absolute Corruption no longer is permanent but extends corruption duration to 24 seconds and increases its damage by 35% up from 25%.

Additionally another 4% nerf across the board would be fine to balance out upcoming tier.

There, fixed.


Aff will be nerfed and for the good reason, because it clearly over-performs and no amount of bullshitting is going to change that.

[Deleted]

Average is not skewed by Skorpyron because that boss was not used for the average.

Aff was strong in NH because it's fucking strong.

After the change to the adds in 7.2 yes.

iirc affliction wasn;t nearly so powerful before that, except on Skorpyron.
Shadow Priests wrecked aff on Botanist...until the flowers and stuff all procced Wrath stacks and gave souls and shards.
The effect is clearly visible on Star Augur, aff rockets up when it can dot up the big add and can tag the voidlings for WOC and souls/shards


If you examine th elogs you will see that balance druids are not that far off affliction on All Bosses, and it's being bent by the Mistress fight. Rogues are doing incredibly well on single target but not do good on multitarget and so on.

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Oh please, shut it will ya?

Charming as ever!

Aff will be nerfed and for the good reason, because it clearly over-performs and no amount of bullshitting is going to change that.

Over performs on some things, not on others.

As to your fix, well, I doubt if that would fix the problem on Inquisition, although it might separate people who can refresh dots from those who can't.

Might bring aff closer to SP's on Host by making the real-switch-cheese harder. Which is what's happening there with dot classes.

[satori sartori]

Oh please, shut it will ya?

Here is simple fix - Absolute Corruption no longer is permanent but extends corruption duration to 24 seconds and increases its damage by 35% up from 25%.

Additionally another 4% nerf across the board would be fine to balance out upcoming tier.

There, fixed.


Aff will be nerfed and for the good reason, because it clearly over-performs and no amount of bullshitting is going to change that.

Right after destro also gets a 4% dmg nerf across the board and havoc is limited to 1 chaos bolt.
Fuck it lets nerf demo too, lets nerf all warlocks, I fucking hate those specs anyways I'm rolling spriests now, they don't deserve to outdps me.

Can you please stop suggesting dumbfuck changes you goddamn literally who.

[Gaidax]

Right after destro also gets a 4% dmg nerf across the board and havoc is limited to 1 chaos bolt.
Fuck it lets nerf demo too, lets nerf all warlocks, I fucking hate those specs anyways I'm rolling spriests now, they don't deserve to outdps me.

Can you please stop suggesting dumbfuck changes you goddamn literally who.

I was called out to suggest changes and I did.

It's fine, no matter how much you writhe, Aff will clearly get in line next reset.

[satori sartori]

I was called out to suggest changes and I did.

It's fine, no matter how much you writhe, Aff will clearly get in line next reset.

destro nerfs too hopefully, they are clearly ahead of the pack in single target, we can just be a happy little class and fuck each other until there is nothing left, if that's what you want

[Baconeggcheese]

I was called out to suggest changes and I did.

It's fine, no matter how much you writhe, Aff will clearly get in line next reset.

I dunno, its an awkward thing to balance that they gave themselves. It pretty much has to over perform a little for it to be worth playing.