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  1. #141
    Titan Zulkhan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arrashi View Post
    Why are we still here ? Just to suffer ?
    Every night, i can feel my lore relevance, my horde characters, even vol'jin.
    The plots i lost, the lore figures i lost won't stop hurting its like the all still there.
    You feel it too, don't you ?
    Im gonna make them give back our horde.
    Quote Originally Posted by Keyblader View Post
    It's a general rule though that if you play horde you are a bad person irl. It's just a scientific fact.
    Quote Originally Posted by Heladys View Post
    The game didn't give me any good reason to hate the horde. Forums did that.

  2. #142
    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    The main problem is not really faction imbalance, but rather race imbalance, the horde and alliance hardly play a role in this expansion pack to begin with, but blizz still throws mostly humans into the players face for the important stuff, khadgar for example is involved in almost everything and I personally am utterly sick of him, yet on the other hand several races barely get scraps in this xpack. It shouldn't be too hard to share the spotlight a little more and to come up with new characters.
    Except people keep conflating Humans with Alliance. And then you get Horde fanboys whining when people point this out, namely we do so because they keep implying there's some amazing Alliance representation when there isn't.

    Most of us Alliance players are as sick of stupid Khadgar as Horde players. And I've constantly said how much I find Malfurion a fucking bore, but he doesn't even count as an Alliance NPC. He's a druid NPC. As well as how much of a travesty it was that Lor'themar wasn't involved in 7.1. However Liadrin was, in her capacity here, acting as the Horde emissary. Much like how Tyrande wasn't in 7.0 but then was in 7.1.

    Context actually matters.

    Kill Khadgar/Illidan/Malfurion.

    Involve Lor'themar, Moira, Mekkatorque, and Baine a lot more. Also where the fuck is Wrathion. Even when I went to visit Blizzard with some other people we couldn't get a good answer to that. Very much seemed like they legitimately just forgot.
    Last edited by KrazyK923; 2017-06-24 at 07:16 PM.

  3. #143
    Quote Originally Posted by KrazyK923 View Post
    Except people keep conflating Humans with Alliance. And then you get Horde fanboys whining when people point this out, namely we do so because they keep implying there's some amazing Alliance representation when there isn't.

    Most of us Alliance players are as sick of stupid Khadgar as Horde players. And I've constantly said how much I find Malfurion a fucking bore, but he doesn't even count as an Alliance NPC. He's a druid NPC. As well as how much of a travesty it was that Lor'themar wasn't involved in 7.1. However Liadrin was, in her capacity here, acting as the Horde emissary. Much like how Tyrande wasn't in 7.0 but then was in 7.1.

    Context actually matters.

    Kill Khadgar/Illidan/Malfurion.

    Involve Lor'themar, Moira, Mekkatorque, and Baine a lot more. Also where the fuck is Wrathion. Even when I went to visit Blizzard with some other people we couldn't get a good answer to that. Very much seemed like they legitimately just forgot.
    People do the same with the horde, wod for example was very orc centric, but the horde and alliance itself felt more as a footnote and this expansion drives it to new extremes. It really isn't that hard to give each race their place and to let them shine a little even outside their factions, it shouldn't be too hard, but all we get are the same old tropes, with humans firmly in the center stage with a few exceptions here and there.

    Blizz should change its narrative, by using more diverse characters. But unfortunately they shove most of their focus on singular races which hurts the story quite a bit. And as you mentioned keep a better track of their story-lines, wrathion not being in legion so far is utterly ridiculous.
    Last edited by Combatbutler; 2017-06-24 at 07:37 PM.

  4. #144
    Quote Originally Posted by KrazyK923 View Post
    Malfurion and Khadgar Alliance heroes?

    They're as much Alliance heroes as Illidan is. Velen is barely an Alliance hero at this point.

    It is really stupid that Baine doesn't have a huge role in Highmountain and Lor'themar didn't show up in 7.1.
    Fun fact, baine actually has new voice lines when you click on him in thunder bluff or wherever you can find him talking about highmountain but he doesn't show up in highmountain or legion really for that matter. They must have been intending to do stuff with him and just scrapped it.

  5. #145
    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    People do the same with the horde, wod for example was very orc centric, but the horde and alliance itself felt more as a footnote and this expansion drives it to new extremes. It really isn't that hard to give each race their place and to let them shine a little even outside their factions, it shouldn't be too hard, but all we get are the same old tropes, with humans firmly in the center stage with a few exceptions here and there.

    Blizz should change its narrative, by using more diverse characters. But unfortunately they shove most of their focus on singular races which hurts the story quite a bit. And as you mentioned keep a better track of their story-lines, wrathion not being in legion so far is utterly ridiculous.
    I swear this expansion feels like individual identity politics (aka class identity).
    Next expansion should be about nazionalistic politics and bring faction pride back... I mean Alliance still has it, but Horde lost it with garrosh and Vol'jin's non-involvement.

  6. #146
    Quote Originally Posted by bmjclark View Post
    Fun fact, baine actually has new voice lines when you click on him in thunder bluff or wherever you can find him talking about highmountain but he doesn't show up in highmountain or legion really for that matter. They must have been intending to do stuff with him and just scrapped it.
    He was part of the Highmountain Neltharion's Lair bit in the beta for the Horde.

  7. #147
    Quote Originally Posted by KrazyK923 View Post
    Except people keep conflating Humans with Alliance. And then you get Horde fanboys whining when people point this out, namely we do so because they keep implying there's some amazing Alliance representation when there isn't.
    Literally who? Or are you conflating the Alliance fanboys who claim WoD was Horde expansion because Orcs with the above?
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Does the CIA pay you for your bullshit or are you just bootlicking in your free time?
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    I'm quite tired of people who dislike something/disagree with something while attacking/insulting anyone that disagrees. Its as if at some point, people forgot how opinions work.

  8. #148
    Titan Zulkhan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmjclark View Post
    Fun fact, baine actually has new voice lines when you click on him in thunder bluff or wherever you can find him talking about highmountain but he doesn't show up in highmountain or legion really for that matter. They must have been intending to do stuff with him and just scrapped it.
    That's exactly what happened. And yes, that makes outright hilarious how Baine maintained those click quotes without the involvement in the story that justified them.
    Quote Originally Posted by Keyblader View Post
    It's a general rule though that if you play horde you are a bad person irl. It's just a scientific fact.
    Quote Originally Posted by Heladys View Post
    The game didn't give me any good reason to hate the horde. Forums did that.

  9. #149
    The Unstoppable Force Arrashi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zulkhan View Post
    That's exactly what happened. And yes, that makes outright hilarious how Baine maintained those click quotes without the involvement in the story that justified them.
    They played him like a damn fiddle.

  10. #150
    Titan Wildberry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arrashi View Post
    They played him like a damn fiddle.
    Let's be fair, it's not like there's anything else worth playing these days.

  11. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by HordeFanboy View Post
    Bring back warcraft 3 Thrall and resurrect Cairne Bloodhoof. Problem solved
    not rly, we need 3 things

    1) orc warchief, as should always be, bring Thura saurfang, with a cool storyline like Garrosh back in TBC and we are fucking done
    2) bring vol'jin back from the dead like jindo, or at least developer a proper successor for racial leader, cause this is a shame, no alliance races stayed with no racial leaders like this ever
    3) find the Baine balls

    Bonus: do like @Friendlyimmolation said, make the blood elves badass again, not to be like high elves pussy humans or lord of the rings stereotype
    Last edited by Syegfryed; 2017-06-24 at 09:28 PM.

  12. #152
    Titan Wildberry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    not rly, we need 3 things

    1) orc warchief, as should always be, bring Thura saurfang, with a cool storyline like Garrosh back in TBC and we are fucking done
    2) bring vol'jin back from the dead like jindo, or at least developer a proper successor for racial leader, cause this is a shame, no alliance races stayed with no racial leaders ever
    3) find the Baine balls

    Bonus: do like @Friendlyimmolation said, make the blood elves badass again, not to be like high elves pussy humans or lord of the rings stereotype
    1.) Thura's a Knaak character and further legitimizes Brox. Just make Saurfang do something.
    2.) Just develop a new troll. Vol'jin sucked anyway.
    3.) They've been missing since the character was created.

  13. #153
    The Insane Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wildberry View Post
    1.) Thura's a Knaak character and further legitimizes Brox. Just make Saurfang do something.
    Saurfang is great, i would love see him as warchief, but people keep talking shit about him, like "he is too old", when this not matter for orcs, so bring new blood, with a strong name like Thura should solve a lot of problems, and this works well( Garrosh work well as character until mop)

    Not need be Thura ( i said her because seems like blizzard want more female characters, so this should work) Eitrig have sons, there are others well know orcs who can have sons too, can be one of then ( i rly think blizzard is waiting the thrall's sons to make something about...)

    2.) Just develop a new troll. Vol'jin sucked anyway.
    dunno, i liked vol'jin, but a new troll leader like zul'jin would be awesome...

    3.) They've been missing since the character was created.
    i dont agree here, he have balls to take control of taurens and kick magta in the ass, but after this, h became boring as fuck

  14. #154
    The Lightbringer Dartz1979's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arrashi View Post
    Why are we still here ? Just to suffer ?
    Every night, i can feel my lore relevance, my horde characters, even vol'jin.
    The plots i lost, the lore figures i lost won't stop hurting its like the all still there.
    You feel it too, don't you ?
    Im gonna make them give back our horde.
    Your horde? you guys dominate in pvp what more do you want? *note horde have far better racials than alliance.
    You can't take what ya can't see... *rolls d20* You rolled a natural 20* The skill of stealth is successful.

    Duelingnexus name: Jaina1337
    Blizzard Battle Tag: Jaina1337#1396

  15. #155
    The Unstoppable Force Arrashi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dartz1979 View Post
    Your horde? you guys dominate in pvp what more do you want? *note horde have far better racials than alliance.
    And how does that relate to anything in any way, shape or form ?

  16. #156
    Quote Originally Posted by Wildberry View Post
    2.) Just develop a new troll. Vol'jin sucked anyway.
    They've yet to introduce another Forsaken character next to Sylvanas, now also develop a new Troll character?

    My bet is on Rokhan just being named chieftain next expansion, similiar to Saurfang.

    I expect nothing less of a company that doesn't even change the title of Saurfang or his 11 year old gossip, the only thing in the game that implies he's a faction leader is the fact that he's marked as "Leader" in Orgrimmar.

  17. #157
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    In my opinion what Horde currently needs is:

    Orcs: new young Orc characters dev. like they did with Garrosh build up from the ground or get lesser known Orcs and give them more screen time like Mankrik
    Also stop with the Orc leader, the Orcs are not united after SoO (it makes no logical sense when clans killed each other) my idea make a Orcish council till a new Orcish warchief has been build up to claim the title, so best would be to pick a blackrock, dragonmaw, frostwolf and warsong Orc and one from Outland and turn these 5 Orcs into a Orc council that make the choices and build these 5 Orc up with story.

    Trolls: Build up wicthdoctor and shadowhunter characters in a possible South sea exp when we visite Zandalar. (maybe even bring Vol'jin kids in the mix)
    Troll options: Rokhan (ofc), Gadrin, Vornal or Jin'Zil.

    Goblins: Build the Gob Squad up make these the main focus for a few exp packs in Goblin lore so we have some known Goblins.
    Atm i wonder if any Goblin had decent build up sofar since Cata.

    Tauren: Pull Baine away from the neutral zone, give him a second in command adviser that is more agressive toward enemies (my idea bring Tagar, the Tauren that was 2e behind Cairne he is not seen yet in WoW)

    Forsaken + Blood Elfs: Well this is a tricky one since i dont really consider these races Horde, but i guess you can build some Blood Elf and Forsaken mages/warlocks up and make them a new Horde magical order or something in that way.

    This is what in my opinion needs to happen, as for leadership from Sylvanas, well i rather had a Orcish council atm that look out for the Horde till somebody caims the title for himself like a real warchief should do instead of having a loa appoint. Then again would i like to see them kill Sylvanas? no that is also not what i want rather have her step down after Legion.

  18. #158
    Titan Zulkhan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wildberry View Post
    2.) Just develop a new troll. Vol'jin sucked anyway.
    I'd go straight with Jin'Zil. No one's better of a guy who turns Night Elves into slime for the hell of it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Keyblader View Post
    It's a general rule though that if you play horde you are a bad person irl. It's just a scientific fact.
    Quote Originally Posted by Heladys View Post
    The game didn't give me any good reason to hate the horde. Forums did that.

  19. #159
    Quote Originally Posted by Tromage View Post
    Goblins: Build the Gob Squad up make these the main focus for a few exp packs in Goblin lore so we have some known Goblins.
    Atm i wonder if any Goblin had decent build up sofar since Cata.
    even fkin gnomes did more shit than goblins
    Bitch Pls

  20. #160
    Quote Originally Posted by Zulkhan View Post
    Problem is, without even a bit of faction conflict WoW lore risks to become more boring than it actually is at the moment. Conflict, tension, betrayals and even misunderstandings between mere "mortals" that share similar goals (just on opposite sides) are all far more compelling elements than beating the umpteenth world-threating bad guy of saturday's night who simply wants to see the world burn because he feels like it. There's no need of a MoP-level of war, however a perpetual state of tension and cold war surely does wonders, like it did back in vanilla. And like it or not, it's faction tension that spiced things up in pretty much all previous expansions (maybe except TBC, that still put a degree of hostility between the factions without focusing too much on them and WoD, that just had Alliance and Horde forces trolling each other at Ashran). Strip all the faction drama from expansions like WotLK, Cataclysm, MoP and even Classic and all that remains is people holding each other's hand to fight some unspeakably evil dude delivering over-the-top lines while laughing like a maniac and enjoying himself. Then rinse and repeat until some other bad guy shows up.

    Now, if only Blizzard knew how to write the faction conflict either competently or realistically, like avoiding to send factions to total war while the world is either shattered by a big ass dragon or bathed in fel fire, things would probably look a lot better.



    I wonder how many Alliance players would have enjoyed that kind of attention, given how they weren't even happy enough with the Purge of Dalaran since it wasn't "fist-pumpy" enough, merely because the whole situation didn't feel morally "clean" on the Alliance's side.



    There's taking a backseat and then there's dismantling a faction's room for development in the space of 3 expansions. Garrosh's storyline messed the Horde up and instead of focusing on a necessary process of rebuilding they screwed it up further by killing more lore characters, one whose development felt utterly lacking and incomplete to begin with, simply because Varian's demise had to be mirrored on the Horde. Baine's chance to get some sorely needed development, a golden chance given the presence of Highmountain Tauren in this expansion, has been completely trashed for unknown reasons. Thrall is depressed and taking an obviously necessary backseat. All that's left are the elves. In the fucking Horde. Sylvanas and maybe Lor'themar.

    The Horde needed a more independent development given how unique and different its own story arc has been during the whole Garrosh affair, instead it got to mimic the Alliance's one. And boom, that's how you get the current status of things.
    Agree on the Baine front - dude is a cardboard cutout at this stage, Highmountain would have been really great. I don't agree abotu Voljin, though. He really got some fantastic development starting with the troll starting area and Rise of the Zandalari continued in Landfall, Shadows of the Horde novel and Escalation/Siege. In fact, I can't think of a single faction leader other than Thrall and Varian who has had more development in-game in such a short time. He went from an npc who literally sat in Org with no story, to becoming one of the best fleshed-out characters on the Horde side. And there is no way his story is over - he's bound up in the loa of death, I mean, come on.

    And if you're unsatisfied that Forsaken and Elves getting the spotlight, then blame it on the people who whined about orcs the last two xpacs. I for one think is refreshing to focus on the other races of the Horde, and wish they would offer the same courtesy to the dwarves and gnomes every once in a while.

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