Intels Skylake-X and Coffee Lake CPUs Discussion

[mojo6912]

life-binder

I could pick apart your previous post but like I said I don't have the interest.

I will just say that you should look up the difference between deductive reasoning and inductive reasoning.

[Life-Binder]

next time do at least minimal research before typing something

I could pick apart your previous post but like I said I don't have the interest.

yeeah ..

concession accepted

[mojo6912]

so rude...

real quick

so far they seem to all do them, yes, even if you dont like it

No. I literally just showed you one that can't. It was even tested by someone who does reviews and overclocking for a living. It's like you saw a zebra and decided all horses must have stripes, then I pointed at a horse and you suddenly went blind.

thermals are a separate manageable issue if you are willing to tackle it in pursuit of top performance (custom loop, delid .. even chillers for some )

It doesn't matter if it is thermals or voltage or architecture or whatever stopping it from hitting those marks, it's all the same. It still can't. The chip I showed you was cooled by means that are much more robust than even most enthusiasts will use. It's pretty much top tier before you have to do a custom loop.

Silicon Lottery is already selling delidded SKL-X and giving 1 year warranty of their own

Oh, so now you have to pay extra for a binned chip and then even more to have it delid only to have the warranty reduced from 3 years to 1 year.

whatever else you said....

Sorry, can't be bothered. I guess I concede... LOL

[Life-Binder]

It doesn't matter if it is thermals or voltage or architecture or whatever stopping it from hitting those marks, it's all the same. It still can't.

so you live in your made-up reality with rules that suit yourself

gotcha

I literally just showed you one that can't

oc3d review

Overclocking

It is difficult to imagine anyone wanting more power than you can get from a 10/20, but on the off-chance you do then it is capable of running at 4.8 GHz. We had to back off down to 4.6 GHz for our overclocking tests, but that is largely due to the thermals where the thermal paste solution employed by Intel led to us seeing 90+ temperatures despite our beefy cooling option. With a delid and some tinkering you could really see this flying along, but we always review things in the way that you will receive them, so down to 4.6 GHz we went at 1.22v and the temperatures stabilised enough to get through all of our benchmarks.


Overclocking

The updated X series is capable of some seriously beefy overclocks, particularly given how many cores there are. As you should be aware, the more cores there are, the greater the chance that one of them isn't up to the task. It speaks volumes about the quality of the Intel silicon yield that our i7-7820X was capable of 4.8 GHz at 1.22v and 5 GHz at 1.3v. Naturally with this many cores in play at these clock speeds the i7-7820X requires a decent amount of cooling to keep everything under wraps, but even at these speeds we saw 72°C at 1.2v but at 1.3v temperatures got to unsafe levels in a matter of seconds. So don't attempt to overclock this on a single fan air-cooler, and if you can stretch to a minimum of a 240mm rad, preferably 360mm, then all the better. If you're hoping to run above 1.25v (or for that matter need to) then we would seriously advise thinking about de-lidding your CPU AND a beefy AIO as an absolute minimum.

Memory speed wise 3600MHz was our ceiling but this was probably limited by the fact we dont have any faster quad channel kits than this. Looks like we need some testing kit upgrades! 3200MHz was easy peasey though and it had next to no impact on the volts the CPU required anywhere. This in itself is a massive step up from the old X99 days.

The chip I showed you was cooled by means that are much more robust than even most enthusiasts will use.

rofl

all reviews have AIOs, thats what anyone with such high core chips at those high frequencies will use (and is expected to use when heavily OCing HEDT) for cooling, either that or high-end air coolers like D15

"more robust" then that would be custom loops and delids, which is actual enthusiast territory (and which reviews didnt feature)


you really need to stop, this is just embarassing




you also have managed to completely miss the point yet again - the only barrier for 4.8 on a 7900X on AIO w/o delid is thermals, rather then silicon or arch

thermals which are due to 10 cores heating up

the 8700K (which is what was talked about in the beginning) will only have 6 cores, which automatically lowers the thermals barrier, allowing the 4.8+ OC to stick


so yes, in this instance its very much relevant that its specifically thermals that is the limiter and not something else, unlike your stupid claim of sweeping everything under 1 rug as if they were the same

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Sorry, can't be bothered. I guess I concede... LOL

I guess you do

LOL

[Thunderball]

maybe in some alternate reality

5.2 7700K is a golden chip, even 5.1 is semi ("As of 6/19/17, the top 29% of tested 7700Ks were able to hit 5.1GHz or greater.")

5.0 is avg-ish

4.9 is avg or a bit below avg

4.8 is "bad"

That's without delidding. You dont need 1.4+V for 5.2 or even 5.3 GHz. I know several people who run their Kaby Lakes (one has a 7600K, couple others have 7700K) on 5.3 GHz at around 1.3V. All of them on water if I remember correctly. But still, I would consider anything below 1.45V a plausible everyday voltage, it just pushes thermals too damn high, especially individual cores, even on water.

[Life-Binder]

with delidding I would expect 5.1 or even 5.2+ GHz on the 8700K (maybe even the 7800X can hit close to that once ppl try to delid and really push it)


I guess we'll see when it comes out

[mojo6912]

Read the next sentence after your first mega-bold sentence. And then read the next one. He literally says that his chip cannot do it.

I guess in your world a 7900x and a delid 7900x are the same thing. To me it seems there is a giant difference in risk and/or price.

This is coming from someone who delid his own 4770k.

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Of course thermals are an easier barrier to get around than the other barriers I mentioned but a barrier is a barrier. Yes you can delid or build a custom liquid cooling loop. These both involve risk and money, a lot of it.

Would you say that ryzen is limited to 4.0 or 4.1ghz? I bet you would. But by your same logic I could point to some extreme way of getting around the barrier. I could say something ridiculous like "use liquid nitrogen and you can git 5ghz+"

It is a matter of perspective I guess. Delidding a $1k chip with parts closer to the edges of the IHS is a lot different than delidding a $200 or $300 chip with more wiggle room for most people.

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To sum it up: "Your" 7900x costs $1000 + cost of binned chip (maybe $200 more?) + cost of delid (maybe $150 more) + cost of liquid cooling loop ($500 more?). And you only have a 1 year warranty... or no warranty if you do it yourself.... or worse...

This chip is perfect for a millionaire who wants to be the biggest on the block.... for about a month till threadripper.

[Life-Binder]

Would you say that ryzen is limited to 4.0 or 4.1ghz?

of course it is, since only LN2 gets it higher than that .. LN2 is purely benchmark/world record only territory, we were talking about 24/7 OCs

But by your same logic I could point to some extreme way of getting around the barrier. I could say something ridiculous like "use liquid nitrogen and you can git 5ghz+"

if you cant see a difference between LN2 and everything else (water cooling/custom loops/delids etc.) then I cant help you

for about a month till threadripper.

threadripper will on avg have even lower clocks then R7

so if you want a ton of lower clocked cores - its perfect, amazing even .. basically a cheaper Xeon

if you want to have MT perf, while maintaining high (close to 7700K) ST perf - its shit


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"Your" 7900x costs $1000 + cost of binned chip (maybe $200 more?) + cost of delid (maybe $150 more) + cost of liquid cooling loop ($500 more?).

nice, more bullshit from you

you dont need binned and you dont need custom loop


a regular delidded chip + an AIO/D15 = gets you ~4.8 on a 7900X (or ~4.6 w/o delid)

for 7820X/7800X you dont even need delid for 4.8

[Thunderball]

I guess in your world a 7900x and a delid 7900x are the same thing. To me it seems there is a giant difference in risk and/or price.

$50 on a $1000 chip is nothing giant.

Of course thermals are an easier barrier to get around than the other barriers I mentioned but a barrier is a barrier. Yes you can delid or build a custom liquid cooling loop. These both involve risk and money, a lot of it.

Delid is must if you're looking for good overlock on a S-X. Custom loop is not that useful on Intel: the main benefit is lower coolant temperature, which is not an issue with cooling Intels, main problem is heat transfer from the die.

Would you say that ryzen is limited to 4.0 or 4.1ghz? I bet you would. But by your same logic I could point to some extreme way of getting around the barrier. I could say something ridiculous like "use liquid nitrogen and you can git 5ghz+"

Ryzens are voltage limited, which is a thing that prevents achieving higher everyday overlock. There is no way you can get around electrical specifications of the chip: if further increasing the voltage means degradation then there is nothing you can do.

It is a matter of perspective I guess. Delidding a $1k chip with parts closer to the edges of the IHS is a lot different than delidding a $200 or $300 chip with more wiggle room for most people.

You dont have to do it yourself. People will do it for you, and pretty cheap.

To sum it up: "Your" 7900x costs $1000 + cost of binned chip (maybe $200 more?) + cost of delid (maybe $150 more) + cost of liquid cooling loop ($500 more?). And you only have a 1 year warranty... or no warranty if you do it yourself.... or worse...

This chip is perfect for a millionaire who wants to be the biggest on the block.... for about a month till threadripper.

I wouldnt even look towards Threadripper in the next 6 month after release, no matter how cheap it is compared to Skylake-X.

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threadripper will on avg have even lower clocks then R7

so if you want a ton of lower clocked cores - its perfect, amazing even .. basically a cheaper Xeon

if you want to have MT perf, while maintaining high (close to 7700K) ST perf - its shit

Noone needs workstation capabilities with high per core performance, realistically. One can argue that you can play and stream on the same machine, but it's 1) Still diminishing your performance ingame 2) Building two rigs (one for gaming, one for encoding) is not much more expensive considering the prices on CPUs and motherboards. Granted, Threadripper shouldnt even be considered for gaming rigs.

[Life-Binder]

not everyone needs a pure workstation machine


some ppl just want to have the cores power, without sacrificing (much) ST, really as simple as that, SKL-X provides that, tries to have the best of both worlds

I wouldnt even call SKL-X a pure workstation-only CPU, like Threadripper will be

Building two rigs (one for gaming, one for encoding) is not much more expensive considering the prices on CPUs and motherboards

agreed

[Fascinate]

This series is just incredibly poor value. Ryzen gets you what, 85% the performance for half the price? You can get a 1700, x370 motherboard, and 16gb's of 3000 ram for nearly 100 dollars less than just a 7820x.

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Combo...=Combo.3517026

[Life-Binder]

Warning: Guys, this thread is ultimately about the new Intel CPU's, so please try to stay at least semi on-topic. Thanks.

This series is just incredibly poor value. Ryzen gets you what, 85% the performance for half the price? You can get a 1700, x370 motherboard, and 16gb's of 3000 ram for nearly 100 dollars less than just a 7820x.

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Combo...=Combo.3517026

reported the Ryzen ad bot

[Fascinate]

reported the Ryzen ad bot

Even intel fanboys are up in arms with this launch, it just shows how out of touch intel really is. No solder at this price point is downright insulting to the enthusiast crowd.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

As soon as I saw 2000$ price point I knew it wasn't going to be something to bother with. Then to put the icing on the cake the PCI lanes being trucked down to like 2005 levels just kinda had me laughing. Intel should have just waited to make a quality pricable product instead of knee jerking this poop out. I say this as someone that has bought Intel chips for the better part of 3 decades.

They saw Ryzan coming for a long time and just sat on market control instead of reacting. Got fat and slow. This is exactly what Intel and the market needed. I am thankful for that.

[Life-Binder]

I too am thankful to Ryzen that thanks to it we got a $600 8c CPU that can clock to ~4.8 w/o delid aka some actual progress on ST perf of high-core chips


though 8700K will be the real good stuff

[mojo6912]

a regular delidded chip + an AIO/D15 = gets you ~4.8 on a 7900X (or ~4.6 w/o delid)

for 7820X/7800X you dont even need delid for 4.8

we got a $600 8c CPU that can clock to ~4.8 w/o delid

ah yes, the tune changes.

[Gray_Matter]

I too am thankful to Ryzen that thanks to it we got a $600 8c CPU that can clock to ~4.8 w/o delid aka some actual progress on ST perf of high-core chips

Here is the part that bothers me. People shouldn't be happy to get a $600 8 core CPU or $1000 on a 10 core just because Intel used to charge more for them. The prices are still too high. I guarantee that if Zen 2 was released tomorrow then suddenly Intel would drop 40% off the price and still make a tidy profit.

[Life-Binder]

ah yes, the tune changes.

you either cant read at all or dont know the difference between 7820X and 7900X

either way Im sorry for whichever it is, must be tough

[DeltrusDisc]

reported the Ryzen ad bot

Rule 1 of reporting people if you actually want them to get infracted: don't respond to their post at all.

[mojo6912]

@Thunderball did you miss that 7800X, 7820X and 7900X can all clock to 4.8+ Ghz (non-binned chips) ?

you either cant read at all or dont know the difference between 7820X and 7900X

either way Im sorry for whichever it is, must be tough

Nice memory.

Anyway, I'm done here. It's pointless to try and have a discussion with someone that can't even remember their own point and what they themselves say.