How Americans afford college?

[Teebone]

Afford? We don't.

[Mittens]

And undergrad education and post grad education, all will help with poverty.
Again, none of these are mutually exclusive.

Explain.

Ok, if the main reason people are poor is due to a lack of skills which one acquires in college, and the main barrier to entry occurs before entering colleget,hen how having a good undergrad and/or post grad education helps? To me it seems like trickle down policy.

[Deleted]

Easy. Military will pay for it. They get mercenaries, you get education.

[Mittens]

You're making this claim based on what exactly? You don't think there's people with poor backgrounds in high school? What are you even talking about?

http://people.virginia.edu/~ent3c/pa...l%20(2011).pdf

There are basically no difference between low SES(socio-economic statue) and high SES kids when they are 10 months old, differences start to appear when they are 2 year old, to the point that childrend that come from high SES families score one third of a standard deviation higher than those that come from low SES families. This gap likely increases as time passes. Genetics explains the differences on high SES families but not on low SES families.

[HumbleDuck]

Its not based on a quartile. "Developed nation" is based on a hard cut-off value (.800) that is independent of the number of countries involved, as they are measured against a series of fixed values. If only the top ten countries were included in the entire count, their scores would not change.

Paying to train someone to be better than you is insane and very self destructive.

HDI is the geometric mean of the three normalized indices, Life Expectancy Index (LEI), Education Index (EI) and Income Index (II):

HDI = [LEI.EI.II]^1/3

Countries in the top quartile of HDI are categorized as the "very high human development" group.

[Peebuddy]

Take 2 years of community college for almost no money, transfer to a University replacing all the retards who drop out, Get a reputable degree for half the price.

[HumbleDuck]

Explain.

Ok, if the main reason people are poor is due to a lack of skills which one acquires in college, and the main barrier to entry occurs before entering collegethen how having a good undergrad and/or post grad education helps? To me it seems like trickle down policy.

The problem is your black and white view.
There is no main barrier, there is a collective of problems that need to be taken care of.
High education cost is one ( and is by the way the topic of this thread), free education means higher taxes on the wealthy, so it's not the same as trickle down economy. It's actually making higher education affordable so less fortunate can enroll if they are interested.
Making people interested in the other hand, is another topic for another thread.

[Sunaka]

If you're over a certain age (24?) you aren't required to claim your parents' taxes for your student aid application. If you've been unemployed (in my case, taking care of my mom and her home) then that means you likely have an estimated family contribution of $0. This means you're "in dire need" for student aid. This is how I've been attending college: highest-level state and federal grants. Since between them I'm completely covered, I don't have to take out anything else, be it loans or scholarships or whatever. As I'm going into a medical field, I could also get a hefty number of other grants and scholarships easily. When I go to grad school, I'll also likely be a candidate for fellowships (considering the field).

Obviously this specific path isn't open to everyone, and especially not to fresh high school grads, but for, say, homeless or disabled folks, it's a pretty good way to keep costs down.

[Zephyr Storm]

How do we afford it? By using common sense.

I have a four year Bachelor's Degree and was able to graduate from my university debt-free.

I went to a local community college for the first two years of college and got an Associate's Degree there. Going to community college is WAY cheaper than going to a university or private school and the degree is just as good. Saved a ton of money this way. I think my most expensive semester there only cost me $1,000.

I also applied for basically any and every scholarship that I could find that I was eligible for. I also worked in a job that I applied my Associate's Degree towards while going the last two years of school to a state university to get my Bachelor's Degree. The money I got from scholarships and the money I made at my job paid for everything at university. So, I ended up graduating with literally zero college debt. The only debt I had was my car payment.

Of course, it also helped that I took as many dual-credit (college credit) classes that I could while still in high school where they were basically free. I also worked my butt off and made straight A's all throughout high school and college. Made getting scholarships that much easier. With all the dual-credit classes I took in high school, I went into my first year of college with enough credits already under my belt to be considered a sophomore in college.

I basically put forth the work and effort where I needed to the most and made sure that I planned ahead in order to maximize my education with the least amount of costs required to do so.

A lot of people could do what I did and graduate with little or no student debt. It's just that most people are too lazy or simply don't care enough to put forth the effort required in order to do what I did. I started planning all of this as a freshman in high school. Most people don't even start caring about college and its expenses until DURING or AFTER college. Then they bitch about being in debt forever because they were too stupid/lazy to care/try.

[kamuimac]

Is there a stigma attached to college reputation in USA? I.e. Do employers discriminate students who went to less popular colleges ? Do employers prefer to employ students who went to an Ivy League college ? Do students brag to others that they attend a better college than them ? Is there a lot of showing off? Or is a college degree equally respected no matter which college it is from?

ofc there is - like in every single country around the world - you have certain univeristies after which its wasy to land a good job and there are some privite schools which diploma is worth as much as toilet paper for employers - in general its all about connections/networking you make during uni years - those are the biggest benefit you can have in your future life.

[HumbleDuck]

If everyone had at least a Bachelor's degree, poverty would still exist, and likely in a similar ratio as seen today. It would just set the new minimum bar to hold any job.

You know a grad degree doesn't only belong in your resume, right? The knowledge is meant to be used to advance the technology ...

[Super Kami Dende]

So what if you're an immigrant who has just come to America, has no famiily to pay for college, but reply on federal loans. Will these federal loans pay for an Ivy League university without any scholarship? If not, what is the limit or best college this kind of person can attend?

What if you're a working class student whose parents can pay only about $5,000, but you have a really high GPA maybe 4 I think is the highest, can you get into Ivy League school without scholarship just federal loans?

So really, wealth does discriminate College n America as college tuition is same for all colleges in other countries ?

I mean, you could always go to university in your own country and then immigrate. Otherwise you just have to deal with it the same way the other 95% of the country deals with it.

[PickleballAce]

It isn't wrong to call grass purple because when I say purple we both know it's obviously green. Stop being obtuse!

[Deleted]

Prostitution, but only if you're a woman.

[Theinquisition]

A bunch of different ways.

1. Parents pay for it.

2. Students use a combination of federal and private loans.

3. Grants and scholarships.

4. Military service

5. Tuition assistance from an employer.

6. A combination of the above.

Gi bill paid for my undergrad and my employer is paying for my masters.

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Easy. Military will pay for it. They get mercenaries, you get education.

Damn it, cut myself on that edge.

[Mittens]

The problem is your black and white view.
There is no main barrier, there is a collective of problems that need to be taken care of.
High education cost is one ( and is by the way the topic of this thread), free education means higher taxes on the wealthy, so it's not the same as trickle down economy. It's actually making higher education affordable so less fortunate can enroll if they are interested.
Making people interested in the other hand, is another topic for another thread.

Except the main reason people aren't interested is motivation (see here figure 3.II.1 (and that whole section by that matter)). Making college free is just a subsidy to those well off, and if you are charging higher taxes to counter the trickle down part of the policy then you might as well just make mean-tested programs.

Edit: I should add that academic barriers exist and play an important role as well. (See here page 144 to 145)

[Lokryn]

I work full time and go to school at night. 0 loans required

This. I worked full time and went to school at night too. The first two years I went to a community college and got an Associates degree. It took me longer to get a bachelor's degree but I don't have any student loan debt.

[Deleted]

Damn it, cut myself on that edge.

You don't like that word? Too bad for you, because fighting for money means you're a mercenary.

[Mittens]

This doesn't suggest that it's only pre-k that matters though. You even said yourself that the gap likely increases as time passes so you're contradicting your earlier statement.



The main barrier to enter college isn't lack of skills though. That doesn't even really make sense since that's where one learns the vast majority of skills needed. The main barrier to entry IS being poor. You're essentially condemning to staying poor because they can't afford to better themselves.

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Just out of curiosity, where did you live while attending school? Did you have a job while obtaining your associate's degree? If so, you didn't mention that.

Because mental ability is developed at an early stage.

For the latter part see my response to Humbleduck.

[Alvito]

Well the 2 largest forms of debt in the nation are medical and student. So the answer is most don't afford it even if they go for awhile.