How Americans afford college?

[Zephyr Storm]

Pretty sure you can't plan around getting kicked to the curb by your parents as soon as you're 18. Or being in a living situation so bad that living on the street might likely be the better option. But sure, that's totally their fault they were born to shit parents.

Considering you can go all the way through high school and take the same classes I did and apply for the same scholarships I did, regardless of living conditions when you turn 18, that's not really an excuse. Some people just don't put in the effort when they should, and then piss and moan later because it's not working out the way they wanted it to.

I can understand your argument if we're talking about someone who is in their 30's with kids already, but they obviously didn't make the right decisions when they needed to. Because I'm 30 and married with a kid already. And I still had all that shit figured out as a 15 year old. So most of the time, it is their fault for simply not caring or having enough initiative to take care of shit when they had the chance.

[RaoBurning]

Considering you can go all the way through high school and take the same classes I did and apply for the same scholarships I did, regardless of living conditions when you turn 18, that's not really an excuse. Some people just don't put in the effort when they should, and then piss and moan later because it's not working out the way they wanted it to.

I can understand your argument if we're talking about someone who is in their 30's with kids already, but they obviously didn't make the right decisions when they needed to. Because I'm 30 and married with a kid already. And I still had all that shit figured out as a 15 year old. So most of the time, it is their fault for simply not caring or having enough initiative to take care of shit when they had the chance.

You must have a dramatically limited experience with the wide gulf between high schools if you think every one of them offers the same opportunities to their students. It's such a laughably false notion I nearly choked on my pork chop.

[Auxora]

Pretty much you can always get student loans either federal or private. Scholarships and grants will vary depending on luck, grades, background, etc. And the minimum payments are very low every month (although they take an eternity to pay off). The idea being that when you're making $100k a year, a $200/month student loan isn't a big deal even if it takes 25 years to pay off. A bigger degree or more expensive school generally just means bigger loans, not an inability to go.

The tough part is when college kids have middle to upper class parents who have money, but who don't help their kids with school. Grants go off of parent income, so they assume their parents are financially helping them even if they aren't. So it sucks to miss out on grants for that reason.

Or the other tough situation is people either getting a useless degree, or at least one that doesn't really return an income to justify the large loans. Some people like going to school more than working and go on and on in college, getting additional Bachelor's degrees, or Masters, or even a PhD, that they aren't really ever going to use or make money from. Or similarly, people that go but don't finish school. I know multiple people that have PhDs that don't make $20k a year, just because they went to all that school more like a hobby or a vacation and didn't use their education for a career when they finished.

[Sky High]

a smart person wouldn't set foot in a university for at least a year or two. community colleges are soooo much more manageable in both cost and demand to get whatever degree you're going for. get the necessary prerequisite courses like math. English, science, etc. out of the way there and even figure out what major you want. I switched mine twice and just got my AA this year and no student loans to deal with. plus my major doesn't require you having a bachelors to get work, it's the experience you have (internships) in that field that says a lot more.

[Zephyr Storm]

You must have a dramatically limited experience with the wide gulf between high schools if you think every one of them offers the same opportunities to their students. It's such a laughably false notion I nearly choked on my pork chop.

Considering I went to high school in the middle of bumfuck nowhere southern Illinois (the state that is broke as a fucking joke and keeps making cuts to education) and was a school so small that I graduated with only 66 people in my class, I'd say that my opportunities were FAR less than what most people have available to them....especially people in major cities.

But please, continue on with your response...

[The Stormbringer]

Typically, loans you wind up paying off until the day you die. Or, at the rate my parents are going, I'll have to pick it up for them.

Pretty sure that's not legal, or it shouldn't be. After all, you as their offspring didn't sign any agreement or contract regarding the loans.

EDIT: On-topic, my higher education was "paid for" by a scholarship and student loans, plus some small loans from my family.

[Zephyr Storm]

You're still missing the point. You saved a shit ton of money by being able to live at home during your first two years while getting your associates degree. You also had a better and more stable living environment than a lot of people did. You weren't struggling with life in general it seems and were able to focus on your education. This isn't the case for millions of people. There's no scholarship for "better living conditions".

I'm not talking about someone in their 30's with kids. Even if I was though, you shouldn't condemn someone because of past "mistakes" like having a kid when they were young and just making it needlessly more difficult to better their lives. That will affect their kid in the long run and it's just a vicious cycle from one poor generation to the next. This is what slows societies progression down greatly, by condemning the poor and doing little to help them.

- - - Updated - - -



The size of the school is completely irrelevant. Some schools have zero AP classes and it's literally impossible to earn college credit while attending some high schools.

You're also still missing the point. The point I'm trying to make is that there are A LOT of people who could easily do even half the stuff I did and get by just fine, but they don't simply because they can't be bothered to do so. They make other less important things a priority in their lives and then bitch and moan when the bills come due and they're drowning in debt the rest of their life.

Are there people out there that are just simply dealt a shitty hand in life and can't do much about it? Sure. But I've actually witnessed some people like that put in the effort and rise above and are now even better off than I am. Not saying they can all do that. But there ARE plenty of opportunities available to even the poorest of the poor, some people simply don't try.

I've seen people with almost nothing to their name, get their entire way through college paid for by government grants, and come out smelling like a rose in the end. I've also seen people with almost nothing to their name, receive government grants, and then go blow it all on shit that isn't related to school. And then they're back to square one, bitching and moaning about their lot in life. Choices is what a lot of it actually boils down to. But of course, people aren't going to blame their own shitty decision making skills and lack of trying. It's much easier to blame everything and everyone else for still being exactly where they are.

[Dorothyjean]

It's a cup of good ol American Capitalism.

Not really, you don't "need" to go to College, it's not a necessity. If you want to head down a specific route in life, sure, but going to college/university isn't a guaranteed win. A loan's a loan, do it or don't do it ... the choice is yours, not societies. You want to do a job that NEEDS a college degree, well, go get a loan and off to college you go.

[BannedForViews]

In other countries students get government loans to pay all over their college and living costs ... so those students don't pay up front and can go to college ... in America , how does this work ? Do you also get loans or do your parents have to pay ? What anout the really elite colleges like Harvard ? Can a poor person go there if they're smart, or can't they afford it?

Most Harvard students dont pay even half of what it costs due to grants.

[Zephyr Storm]

Yes, people can overcome adversity. Obviously I'm not disagreeing with that but can the majority of people do so? Absolutely not and your refusal to believe that just means you've been in some fantasy land.

Of course there are people that just fuck up their opportunities but they're also in the minority. I'm not sure you're even being consistent. You agree that some people are dealt a shitty hand and can't do much about it so then what is your point? Do you think those people should or should not be given assistance in some form such as better funded education? A meritocracy based society is ideal but just unrealistic. People in shitty circumstances, typically poor people, have a much higher chance of of not meeting their potential so it's not a true meritocracy anyway. Some of the most talented people are looked over and forgotten because they're too busy worrying about meeting their basic needs that they can't reach their full potential.

You're really getting off topic here with your bashing of poor people. I'm glad you admit there are people out there that just aren't given the same oppturnity as someone like you was given.

My sympathy levels would be higher than they are, but I've personally seen way too many poor people just piss their opportunities away.

I was in a situation where my parents made just enough money to disqualify me from any kind of federal aid, but didn't make enough money to actually help me pay for college in any meaningful way. So I was on my own when it came to finding ways to pay for college and its associated expenses. So I worked my ass off, both in school and work, in order to make sure I was covered as much as possible. I busted my ass to make good grades to qualify for academic scholarships. I busted my ass off in jobs in order to make money to pay for any expenses that came along. I planned ahead and made choices that I knew would pay off for me in the long run, even if those choices sucked at the time and weren't exactly the "fun" option most people would go for. I BUSTED MY ASS to make sure that when I graduated from college, I would have zero or as little student debt as possible. And I did it all through my own planning, hard work, and determination.

Meanwhile, I saw countless poor students get handed grants and free hand outs to pay for their way through school and then turn around and basically spend the money on anything and everything they could that didn't pertain to college. I know a guy that spent as much of his grant money as he could on electronics, video games, and his car and then had the nerve to bitch to me about how he couldn't afford his education costs at the end of each semester. I saw people literally being handed a free ride and just pissing it away, while I was busting my ass to make sure I had my shit covered.

Once again, I know this doesn't pertain to ALL poor people, obviously (so you can stop using that as a retort to my posts). But my sympathy levels are not very high knowing how hard I worked myself to get where I am while seeing poor people have the world handed to them and they piss it all away, only to cry the blues about it later. Maybe that makes me a shitty person, but I've gotten to the point where I don't care about it when people make their own dumbass choices or simply don't try and have to face the consequences of those choices for the rest of their lives.

[Captain N]

On a personal and nowhere near normal experience my kid will afford college with the $120,000 that her mother and I have been putting aside since she was 8 ($1000/month over 10 years). The rest she'll cover through student loans and/or scholarships.

For most people it involves grants, scholarships, large student loans, or working dead-end jobs to pay for tuition. For others there's military service which seems to be a whole lot of trading your life or physical and/or mental health for the chance to go to school when you get out these days. There's also a few occupations left that will pay for furthering education if a person goes to school for work related courses.

[zezel81]

In other countries students get government loans to pay all over their college and living costs ... so those students don't pay up front and can go to college ... in America , how does this work ? Do you also get loans or do your parents have to pay ? What anout the really elite colleges like Harvard ? Can a poor person go there if they're smart, or can't they afford it?

If you was intelligent you can go anywhere for free. Hell you would become the next billionaire most likely.

[Zephyr Storm]

Your anecdotal experience is irrelevant to the facts though. If you want to base your opinion on that, go ahead, but it's illogical as fuck to do so.

Doesn't change the fact that this shit happens way more often than most people would like to admit.

[HumbleDuck]

Not really, you don't "need" to go to College, it's not a necessity. If you want to head down a specific route in life, sure, but going to college/university isn't a guaranteed win. A loan's a loan, do it or don't do it ... the choice is yours, not societies. You want to do a job that NEEDS a college degree, well, go get a loan and off to college you go.

Imo, it is indeed a necessity.
Common theme with our right wing friends here seems to be that a higher education degree is only useful to get a higher paying job, it really is not. A better educated society is extremely beneficial to everyone, it's been prooven to be the case through out history.

[ryan1mcq]

Education should be free, being forced into a lifetime of debt just to better yourself is a major crime against humanity.

[Foaming Clean]

Typically, loans you wind up paying off until the day you die. Or, at the rate my parents are going, I'll have to pick it up for them.

I assume you're joking, but just in case you're not debts do not pass to family members upon death. Debt collectors maybe attempt to convince you otherwise but they don't have any legal standing until you agree.

[Kathandira]

In other countries students get government loans to pay all over their college and living costs ... so those students don't pay up front and can go to college ... in America , how does this work ? Do you also get loans or do your parents have to pay ? What anout the really elite colleges like Harvard ? Can a poor person go there if they're smart, or can't they afford it?

Basically the list is as so:

Government Loans
Grants
Scholarships
Paid out of pocket

[Bigbazz]

Dunno about the US but University costs in the UK is madness these days, when I was there about a decade ago it was 3k per year and I got a grant that paid part of that.. Now it's 9k per year and may rise, how the fuck kids are affording it here I dunno.

[Blood Raven]

Go into debt for the rest of your life, I'd imagine.

[Dorothyjean]

Imo, it is indeed a necessity.
Common theme with our right wing friends here seems to be that a higher education degree is only useful to get a higher paying job, it really is not. A better educated society is extremely beneficial to everyone, it's been prooven to be the case through out history.

No, history has proven that our civilization becomes more peaceful with education but we will always need educated and non-educated people in the work force. There will always be janitors, cleaners, servers etc. and there will continue to be most likely more of them as more people get better jobs and become more lazy with their money. History has proven at any point in time that Everyone doesn't have the Ideal job ... that is History.