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  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by hellhamster View Post
    So what's a decent opener? BoS is making things clunky as fuck.
    What about it is clunky? You just HB and if you have the talents for it RW, then spawm away with Ob and react to time procs. It will probably be less than 10 seconds before you can start with BoS and then you just pop PoF immeiately afterwards, when your RP appear to be no longer sustainable you hit HRW and have smooth sailing for another 10 seconds..

    - - - Updated - - -

    As for the current state of frost, I can't help but feel that the t20 2p does bugger all and is really not worth it, at least not for the suppsed gain of having shorter more powerful breaths. I find myself still wanting to use SoN and CoF just to keep breath going as long as possible. The 4p will probably help here and maybe then switching to the new chest is worth it, but currently it feels kinda shit, wheres the unholy 2p is awesome .

  2. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by Baddok21 View Post
    Neme i see that your running 2pc 4pc (with the ideal slots for all lucky guy) will you continue to keep going for higher TF T19 or is Frost cleave/AoE still passable without it.

    Higher TF T19 shoulder/legs i mean, will you keep farm,ing it each week to keep the ilvl decently within grasp.
    I'll prob "farm" legs since its Guldan and we're still getting the mount for people, but I doubt I'll get shoulders any higher. I'm pretty casual now, so there's almost no chance I'll form a mythic NH group to get shoulders

  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by RuneDK View Post
    This is the problem Blizzard created when they made you have to focus on a single spec and not a class.
    fucking this
    I don't mind switching to unholy, it's actually quite fun to play, but going through the legendary rng again is just fucking cancer

  4. #84
    Deleted
    so if you do not have tier 19 pieces or the right legendary, what is the go to Frost spec?

  5. #85
    Deleted
    My Frost DK is now standing in his order hall where I only use him for gold missions. Absolutely not interested in pet specs.

  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaap View Post
    My Frost DK is now standing in his order hall where I only use him for gold missions. Absolutely not interested in pet specs.
    the bottom 6 specs

    Havoc
    Frost DK
    Enhance shaman
    WW Monk
    Survival Hunter
    Fury Warrior
    Ret Paladin

    Its simply not a melee friendly raid compared to the 99% uptimes melee saw in NH, so expect mythic to be the usual 2 Tank/4(5) Melee/4 Healer/10(9) ranged
    be happy the gap is not so large that you will lose a dps spot due to it, Frost and Unholy across the board is only a 5.8% dmg difference MAX so you an litterally play w/e spec you want for now until more Tier is acquired fights get shorter/mechanics get skipped and you can be back to BoS Tunneling
    Last edited by Baddok21; 2017-06-25 at 12:22 AM.

  7. #87
    Frost is 100% fucked in most fights and out dps needs a buff ASAP

  8. #88
    Frost is 100% fucked in most fights and out dps needs a buff ASAP
    It's not that they need a buff (a small buff wouldn't hurt), it's that being locked in to the only playstyle that performs (BoS), screws you hard on a movement heavy raid like ToS. When an FDK can sit on the boss, their numbers look just fine. Take KJ for example; FDK performs well until KJ goes up in to the air and you start doing the mechanics dance for what feels like an eternity. Ranged and dot classes can still get a little dmg out, FDK's can't. And god forbid you don't find a good window for BoS, or have to move while BoS is still going.

    The biggest problem, imo, however, is the loss of the bonus rime proc from T19. Cleave and AoE go down the shitter because RW is your only true on demand AoE at that point and even that has to ramp up via Gathering Storm. They need to bake in that Rime bonus for FDK to hang. When you consider all of that with the fact that they have the worst mobility in the game, it's pretty much a wrap at that point. I made the switch to Unholy and couldn't be happier. I love Frost but if you're in a mythic progression guild, you're not doing yourself any favors by playing it. It's only going to fall further and further to the wayside.

  9. #89
    it also comes down to legendaries...im not going to play unholy when ym best legendary for the spec is sephuz....maybe once i get a few unholy legendaries ill consider playing unholy...until then...I'd rather just not raid because it's as much of a disservice to play unholy with shit legendaries as it is to just play frost.

    At least if i stuck with frost they'd know im stuck in a bad spec...if i play unholy and my numbers are below expectation they just think I suck...they being many guilds you'd be in or app for.
    Last edited by RuneDK; 2017-06-25 at 02:53 PM.

  10. #90
    it also comes down to legendaries...im not going to play unholy when ym best legendary for the spec is sephuz....maybe once i get a few unholy legendaries ill consider playing unholy...until then...I'd rather just not raid because it's as much of a disservice to play unholy with shit legendaries as it is to just play frost.

    At least if i stuck with frost they'd know im stuck in a bad spec...if i play unholy and my numbers are below expectation they just think I suck...they being many guilds you'd be in or app for.
    Valid points and I don't fault you one bit. If I hadn't gotten leggo Unholy shoulders a week ago, I'd be in your shoes.
    Hellborne - US Illidan
    Armory | Warcraft Logs | Raider.IO

  11. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by Hellborne87 View Post
    Valid points and I don't fault you one bit. If I hadn't gotten leggo Unholy shoulders a week ago, I'd be in your shoes.

    All my nethershards are going for shoulders for the unholy legendary shoulders...those+sephuz isn't a terrible combo. Hopefully I get the legendary chest once the nether portal goes up later today and i do my fifty portals.

  12. #92
    Immortal hellhamster's Avatar
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    Holy hell this is just depressing. Each and every fight that has you NOT sit on the boss' ass for like 45 seconds at a time brings subpar dps. I don't know how to deal with this.

    I strongly urge people to go unholy if it's for serious progression and they can make the switch.
    Last edited by hellhamster; 2017-06-25 at 04:52 PM.

  13. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by hellhamster View Post
    Holy hell this is just depressing. Each and every fight that has you NOT sit on the boss' ass for like 45 seconds at a time brings subpar dps. I don't know how to deal with this.

    I strongly urge people to go unholy if it's for serious progression and they can make the switch.
    Im waiting until August to make the jump, unless told otherwise(in which case I'll just stop raiding for a few months). Mostly want to see any/all hotfixes and I feel like by August all hotfixes will be in and then it's just dealing with the aftermath and hoping the spec isn't on the bottom by significant portions.

  14. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by hellhamster View Post
    Holy hell this is just depressing. Each and every fight that has you NOT sit on the boss' ass for like 45 seconds at a time brings subpar dps. I don't know how to deal with this.

    I strongly urge people to go unholy if it's for serious progression and they can make the switch.
    I think just as depressing is how is blizz going to fix this? I doubt there going to retune the boss so you can have 30-45 seconds of interrupted time. So what does blizz do then? Is it a simple matter of "all frost damaging spells now do 5% more damage" ( that buff 3% buff for survival didn't do anything) or are they going to redo Obliteration so it becomes viable talent when you can't do the "sit on boss for xx seconds" or is there some other 3rd option?

    I feel blizz painted frost in a corner in the fact that good Frost DPS is mostly supported by BOS-that is everything hinges on BOS. Take away the extended "sit on boss BOS time" and its back to being supbar. And I just don't see blizz making the effort at the start of tier to redo the other talents when BOS doesn't get the job done.

    My fear is blizz will see that UH is doing good so "that is good enough for DKs". And subsequently frost wont get touched until Argus.

    Time will tell.

  15. #95
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by hellhamster View Post
    Holy hell this is just depressing. Each and every fight that has you NOT sit on the boss' ass for like 45 seconds at a time brings subpar dps. I don't know how to deal with this.

    I strongly urge people to go unholy if it's for serious progression and they can make the switch.
    WTF. Compeltely wrong.

    Goroth has those time windows.

    Demonic Inq has them (in case, just reset the energy bar before BOS)

    Harjatan has them

    Mstress has them

    Sisters has it (just cloak stacks)

    Desolate Host has them (unless you got unlucky with debuffs)

    Maiden has them (i'd expect to use it after 1min/3min/5min)

    Fallen Avatar has them (lol why shouldnt you????)

    KJ has them (the timings in normal mode were terrible though)

    It wont work every try because some debuffs force you to run away. But with proper timing (e.g. wait with BOS until debuffs are spreaded) everythign seems fine. And never forget AMS, it might help sometimes. Getting 4pT20 and going to Bracers/Chest combo will help A LOT!!! Because breaths will be much shorter and stronger, you might only need 26 sec breath (everything above 26sec is weaker).

  16. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by Klatar View Post
    WTF. Compeltely wrong.

    Goroth has those time windows.

    Demonic Inq has them (in case, just reset the energy bar before BOS)

    Harjatan has them

    Mstress has them

    Sisters has it (just cloak stacks)

    Desolate Host has them (unless you got unlucky with debuffs)

    Maiden has them (i'd expect to use it after 1min/3min/5min)

    Fallen Avatar has them (lol why shouldnt you????)

    KJ has them (the timings in normal mode were terrible though)

    It wont work every try because some debuffs force you to run away. But with proper timing (e.g. wait with BOS until debuffs are spreaded) everythign seems fine. And never forget AMS, it might help sometimes. Getting 4pT20 and going to Bracers/Chest combo will help A LOT!!! Because breaths will be much shorter and stronger, you might only need 26 sec breath (everything above 26sec is weaker).
    Goroth ok
    Demonic inc so so but ok
    Harjatan ok but still better for UH
    Mistress is terribad for frost and OP for UH
    Sisters ok but still better for UH
    DEsolate ok but still better for UH
    Maiden is bad for frost and great for UH
    Fallen avatar is the worst shit ever for frost and great for UH

  17. #97
    My bad for this being kind of off-topic, but whats the DK discord? I've tried finding it but my search bar isn't doing my justice.
    Thanks in advance!

  18. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by meumaxu View Post
    Goroth ok
    Demonic inc so so but ok
    Harjatan ok but still better for UH
    Mistress is terribad for frost and OP for UH
    Sisters ok but still better for UH
    DEsolate ok but still better for UH
    Maiden is bad for frost and great for UH
    Fallen avatar is the worst shit ever for frost and great for UH
    I've done all of these fights and none of them are "bad" for frost. They're all relatively easy. Movement doesn't kill your dps and you only need 26 seconds of Breath for maximum value.

    If you can't do that then you're playing bad.

  19. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by Hctaz View Post
    I've done all of these fights and none of them are "bad" for frost. They're all relatively easy. Movement doesn't kill your dps and you only need 26 seconds of Breath for maximum value.

    If you can't do that then you're playing bad.
    try going hc then, normal you can ignore pretty much everything

  20. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by meumaxu View Post
    Goroth ok
    Demonic inc so so but ok
    Harjatan ok but still better for UH
    Mistress is terribad for frost and OP for UH
    Sisters ok but still better for UH
    DEsolate ok but still better for UH
    Maiden is bad for frost and great for UH
    Fallen avatar is the worst shit ever for frost and great for UH
    Goroth definetly is BoS friendly
    Demonic your first breath is easily a double HRW 1:15+ and you also get to cleave for the first 15-20 seconds
    Harjatan is this raids Patchwork dont know how you can have a BoS issue here
    Mistress again is a 100% melee uptime boss
    Sisters Save AMS to wipe stacks if your out of position (only frost can do this)
    Desolate Host can clear a most of the debuffs with AMS, no different then breath on Gul'dan and praying you dont get chains
    Maiden not the best BoS fight use after ball phases
    Fallen Avatar when he does his AoE uptop attack the maiden while moving off boss and continue until you get back within range
    KJ pretty bad for BoS no argument here till phase 3 (but you can make up lost BoS dmg with cleave you get from images)

    I imagine Mythic will have another layer of melee unfriendliness but for Normal/Heroic just learn the fights and the best way to optomize BoS uptimes.

    the fact you complained about BoS on HARJATAN is alarming

    PS: you have to weigh the Value of BoS uptime when you get significant cleave vs pure single target, a 40 second BoS uptime where 20+ seconds of it was 2 target cleave is more valuable then a 1min pure single target BoS (Demonic/Harj/Mistress/Desolate).
    Last edited by Baddok21; 2017-06-26 at 11:05 AM.

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