ToS NM Cleared Day 1 by pugs and Heroic by Guilds, Yet LFR has to wait 2 months.

[zmp]

you are the type of LFR Scrub as you put it who only wants to do LFR and then wants to quit the game after, sort of makes sense to gate LFR then doesn't it :>

And by gating LFR, he can save two months of gametime, then get carried in LFR by big pro WoW bois like yourself who have a super duper ingame penis, then quit, save more time and wait for the next raid content. Win Win.

[gutnbrg]

that squirrel quest only gives me like ilvl 855 gear bruh

[Gravity2015]

Just to give an idea of the minimum time requirement, we cleared heroic as a guild (so we knew the tactics and paths to bosses) and then went to do normal as quickly as we could to avoid having to come back on Sunday. Took us a little over an hour with one wipe on Sisters of the Moon, all the rest were one-shots.

Depending on the pug and how well "going well" exactly is, I'd say anywhere from an hour upwards. A few learning wipes on most of the latter half of bosses, maybe 3 hours wouldn't be unreasonable?

awesome thanks, i upgraded my 940 to 970 and got lucky with a 970 drop, i dont raid but am at 896, hopefully i can get lucky sometime and hop in to see what its all about ..

what about Nighthold raid, do pugs will run it on norm? how long would it take?

[Accendor]

So you really want to scrap normal mode? Making a slightly harder (Let's be honest normal really isn't too much of a step up) LFR doesn't make it not LFR.

Not saying Normal mode is extremely hard but come on, there is a big difference between LFR and normal. You normally can ignore ALL mechanics in LFR and have half the raid and you will still kill bosses and it won't even be close. And if you get the 5% buff.
In normal it is very easy to die if you ignore just ONE mechanic and are not totally overgaring it and in the first few weeks one or two dead DDs can mean berserker mode on specific bosses. Yes, obv if you are a mythic player this is still very easy, but yes, normal mode IS harder than LFR and not only by a small margin.

[Sansnom]

LFR (currently) is timegated for a number of reasons.

The first is to give something special to normal/heroic/mythic raiders. Part of the enjoyment, at least for some of us, is seeing the raid. It would make it much less special if anyone who could que for LFR could see it.

Something special. Kind of odd that during Normal/Heroic only raids of the past, hardly anyone complaint about people seeing the whole raid in Normal during the first week. People had to clear Normal to unlocking Heroic.

Yet, as soon as LFR was available, suddenly more people complained about being to see the entire raid in the first week.

So this becomes a problem. So why was it not a major problem in the past? Maybe because people don't want "LFR-Heroes" to clear the raid in the first week but okay for "Normal-Heroes" to clear it?

[Better]

Something special. Kind of odd that during Normal/Heroic only raids of the past, hardly anyone complaint about people seeing the whole raid in Normal during the first week. People had to clear Normal to unlocking Heroic.

Yet, as soon as LFR was available, suddenly more people complained about being to see the entire raid in the first week.

So this becomes a problem. So why was it not a major problem in the past? Maybe because people don't want "LFR-Heroes" to clear the raid in the first week but okay for "Normal-Heroes" to clear it?

Any player in the game can a full clear of LFR the only things preventing it is blizz's set ilvl for queuing, and the delayed release. For a week one norm clear it's not some super hard hurdle to get over, but you at least put some effort into it.

And honestly if you're only doing LFR, and finish it all day/week one you have 6 whole months of just that. You've beaten what you equate to be the last boss until the next one comes out. For ppl that full clear norm week 1 they have either heroic, or mythic to then progress through. Also if you clear all of Normal week one you're not really a "Normal-Hero" as it'd imply you're probably at least going to Heroic.

[Sansnom]

Any player in the game can a full clear of LFR the only things preventing it is blizz's set ilvl for queuing, and the delayed release. For a week one norm clear it's not some super hard hurdle to get over, but you at least put some effort into it.

And honestly if you're only doing LFR, and finish it all day/week one you have 6 whole months of just that. You've beaten what you equate to be the last boss until the next one comes out. For ppl that full clear norm week 1 they have either heroic, or mythic to then progress through. Also if you clear all of Normal week one you're not really a "Normal-Hero" as it'd imply you're probably at least going to Heroic.

And this has nothing to do with what I was posting about.

[Deleted]

Best guess is they put off releasing LFR so players who play at standard raiding difficulties don't feel forced to run even more content than they're already forced to do to get their hands on tier gear / lucky procs on trinkets.

[Deleted]

some raiders are just toxic

Like you, you just said that if we don't agree with you we are wrong...

[Better]

And this has nothing to do with what I was posting about.

It has a lot to do with what you posted. The reasoning why people don't care that people clear normal week one is because those people aren't "done". For LFR players they'd be done with all the content (as far as they see it) day/week one.

I also brought up my issue with the use of "Normal-Heroes" when referring to people who clear normal week one, because they honestly aren't the players who will be doing normal 1 month from now.

[Ehrenpanzer]

LFR is a proper way to experience it and LFR requires you to co-operate just a little bit....

Its a raiding mode just like NM+. If NM was being gated and heroic/mythic wasn't people would be pissed about that as well.

I can sympathize with your original post, but that part is just bs....

[Veshx]

Oh look another Jtbrig thread complaining about LFR.

Go pug it.

[SirCowdog]

lets remove loot from mythic then first .

since all you want to experience is "chalenge" it shouldnt't matter right ?

Stop using logic! We don't want that here! XD

In all seriousness, the only reason to delay LFR is to keep the "casuals" subbed longer. Granted, a casual is more likely to unsub and wait for new content, but that's what the steady stream of trash-content is for. Hell, the steady stream of trash content is aimed at most of the WoW playerbase. Every single timelock or daily task is put in the game to keep you logging in and maintaining your sub. Anyone who says differently isn't being objective.

But to get back on topic: It's pretty clear that the arguments against LFR are almost entirely stemming from a desire for one group of players to feel superior to another. It's the same arguments I've seen time after time in regards to challenge modes, mythic-only content, and every argument against matchmaking. People have this psychological block against anyone playing differently than themselves.

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

Queued content does very little to encourage social interaction or the making of long term connections in-game. Content requiring pre-made groups does. Heroic raiding - and to a lesser extent Normal raiding - both encourage guild membership which leads to making friends which results in a greater sense of connection to the game. Players in active guilds with multiple friends in the game are less likely to unsubscribe.

Blizz has had the most successful MMO for how many years now? We may not understand every decision they make, but they clearly have some things figured out.

[obesemidget]

The devs want you to experience the raid as it was designed. Not the undertuned mechanic-less crap that LFR is.

[SirCowdog]

Best guess is they put off releasing LFR so players who play at standard raiding difficulties don't feel forced to run even more content than they're already forced to do to get their hands on tier gear / lucky procs on trinkets.

Or they could...ya know...not be such dirty bastards with the RNG on drops for good gear. Oh...wait. My bad. That would ruin their business model of milking players by setting up the odds in favor of the house, exactly like a casino. :/

- - - Updated - - -

The devs want you to experience the raid as it was designed. Not the undertuned mechanic-less crap that LFR is.

Then make LFR the base difficulty. The "intended" setting, and add more challenges for higher-end players at higher difficulty settings. Don't punish people for playing on the lowest setting.

[patrins]

I hate to be the guy to say it (its probably been said in the last 33 pages) but LFR is tuned so absurdly low it can't be described accurately with words. The goal of LFR is to be unwipable regardless of how undergeared the raid is. You show up, target the boss maybe hit some buttons maybe afk, doesn't matter. Mechanics? what? Its made for the lowest denominator possible and that's ok. The goal is to let people who don't have the time or interest to raid to see the content, and it turns out in a completely uncoordinated undergeared group, mechanics would be far too onerous.

Thus LFR is what it is today and that's just fine... BUT, if you want to see the content now, just go do normal. LFR is the bottom tier of the bottom tier, and that leaves normal mode and pretty much 2 grains of sand above bottom tier. You now need people to not be on fresh characters and you need people to do basic basic mechanics half of the time. That's it. If you want to see it, go do it. It is within any living, breathing, functioning human-being's realm of possibility.

Then make LFR the base difficulty. The "intended" setting, and add more challenges for higher-end players at higher difficulty settings. Don't punish people for playing on the lowest setting.

They did this, and then they realized they literally had to add a difficulty below the "base" difficulty that could be completely with zero coordination and they named it lfr.

[SirCowdog]

They did this, and then they realized they literally had to add a difficulty below the "base" difficulty that could be completely with zero coordination and they named it lfr.

And what, exactly, does that have to do with delaying access to LFR? Nothing.

As I said earlier: "...the only reason to delay LFR is to keep the "casuals" subbed longer."

[kamuimac]

And what, exactly, does that have to do with delaying access to LFR? Nothing.

As I said earlier: "...the only reason to delay LFR is to keep the "casuals" subbed longer."

well there is also 2nd reason - to keep sad pathetic creatures called mythic raiders feel happier because they think they matter to anyone and arent just the same statistic number to blizzard as those who do lfr

[Raqubor]

well there is also 2nd reason - to keep sad pathetic creatures called mythic raiders feel happier because they think they matter to anyone and arent just the same statistic number to blizzard as those who do lfr

Wow you are so jealous it reeks. (lazy and bad people trying to justify their pitiful way of life by belittling the ones with accomplishments)