Which raid had the better Kil'jaeden?

[BiggestNoob]

He feels half finished in ToS. There's so much downtime where you're just standing around it ruins the whole pace

??????

At what point in this fight do you just stand around not doing anything?

[Deleted]

??????

At what point in this fight do you just stand around not doing anything?

His air phase. If you're not soaking the armageddon, there are parts where there's no focused dreadflame/purple orb to position so you're not doing anything. And even when you do need to run to places, it's very boring running to a place, waiting a few seconds and then not having anything else to do while he's in the air

[Soluna]

Sunwell definitely. Finally getting to step in to the room to see him after months of progress just felt epic. This one died the same day the raid opened sadly.

Yes, I am pretty sure you managed to beat him on Sunwell... not. If you had, you wouldn't compare Normal (or even HC) KJ with your overgeared raid and bis leggos to an overtuned boss with buggy mechanics and broken classes, not to mention gear issues... You don't even fucking know what Mythic KJ is like, and you will probably never will, as you can't even understand that old raids were tuned to be completed by 1-2% of the players, just like... MYTHIC. :P I am sure this must be a lot to take in, take some time and think about it.

[Ceasah]

Haha, kids feel entitled after beating normal. Whats new.

[Deleted]

TOS definitely. hes so epic, he mastered the art of fog of war.

on a serious note, fight felt underwhelming and very generic on nhc/hc. its only nhc/hc still...im disappointed.

[A-sayo]

Guess having him on normal and heroic (and die fast there) kinda ruins it for people. Should he have been a mythic only end boss?

Problems with this option :
- It will bring an outburst from those who can't raid/clear mythic. They would have to wait 1-2 expansions before being able to experience the fight. In the meantime, they'd miss the lore from it (just like Highmaul MM).
- How would you justify the cinematic for LFR/Normal/Heroic people ?

KJ may feel weaker than Sunwell, yet he still proves a challenge to beat compared to the other bosses in the same difficulty (just like Heroic Arch was harder than the first 3-4 MM bosses in Hellfire Citadel).

[Alvito]

Having not seen the most difficult setting of both it is hard to say. From the norm/heroic versions I can say I liked SWP more. Some of that is due to how happy I was to raid then though. It was next to impossible to get groups doing anything beyond T4 on my server at the time.

[BiggestNoob]

His air phase. If you're not soaking the armageddon, there are parts where there's no focused dreadflame/purple orb to position so you're not doing anything. And even when you do need to run to places, it's very boring running to a place, waiting a few seconds and then not having anything else to do while he's in the air

So you're talking about what, 10-15 seconds on an 8 minute fight? Such downtime. It's definitely HFA.

[Deleted]

So you're talking about what, 10-15 seconds on an 8 minute fight? Such downtime. It's definitely HFA.

The pacing is off with it. There's very little to do in the first phase as it is, then the air phase in general just seems slow and boring. You can't even damage KJ during it so you're just waiting and moving around slightly

The only interesting part of the fight is the first few seconds of the night phase trying to find illidan. For me I definitely didn't feel it lived up to the hype of being the end boss.

The mythic version could be amazing and I'm looking forward to seeing what they change. But right now on heroic it was a letdown for me

[Erolian]

It was honestly a little boring on heroic. It feels like a longish boss fight but the mechanics just didn't really have a lot to do with each other. Soak a meteor, assign some people to soak beams, stand still with your beam, don't get blasted by a green beam like a retard. Very basic. Now its just heroic so its not supposed to be difficult but it just felt like the boss had too much health and it went on for a little too long with mechanics that weren't really threatening. I think the only time the mechanics had any sort of interplay was using the rift thing he opens to dodge his big aoe/suck in the fire pool/orb thing. Everything else was sort of disjointed and it didn't feel like something different/exceptional was going on. The hardest part was probably just bringing 30 people that could really be trusted to do mechanics so you got the most loot to drop.

[Eazy]

In terms of mechanic: TOS.

In terms of epicness: Sunwell.
He was also considered as the strongest being we have ever fought with back in these days, right now we also know Void Lords etc.
Jumping from Illidan(demon hunter) to Zul'jin(troll) then to a right hand of Sargeras. It was really something bigger. Nowadays we're killing demons on a daily basis and it's not longer feeling as epic as before.



I'm still getting goosebumps whenever I watch this video.

Sunwell Plateau KJ felt more special since you had to work for months to finally got to encounter him. This KJ I killed multiple times during the first week he became available so it doesn't really feel like anything really.

+

[Deleted]

I haven't played him back in TBC, but i can say that on heroic he feels like a slowly accelerating steamroller...

He starts slowly, but keeps gaining on how hectic the fight is.

[Tech614]

Sunwell KJ wasn't even the hardest boss in his instance.

[Deleted]

Whenever you talk about a subject like this, it's extremely funny how many people apparently fought KJ in Sunwell.

As if.. 100% the majority have solo'd him afterwards for transmog and thought it was cool.

[Tech614]

Whenever you talk about a subject like this, it's extremely funny how many people apparently fought KJ in Sunwell.

All the people who killed him when it was relevant content would know he was a disappointing boss fight and wasn't worth the near disbandment and recruitment to fill rage quiters you had to do to get past the true final boss of Sunwell: M'uru.

[Siglius]

All the people who killed him when it was relevant content would know he was a disappointing boss fight and wasn't worth the near disbandment and recruitment to fill rage quiters you had to do to get past the true final boss of Sunwell: M'uru.

I mean. Both Muru and KJ were equally overtuned pieces of shit imo. I still have nightmares of all the fucking mandatory profession rerolls.

[Adoxe]

Visually and story-wise, Tomb of Sargeras. Mechanics wise, Sunwell, but we're yet to see Mythic in action so who knows.

[Lahis]

ITT: People who believe that every single mythic phase / ability is going to be completely unique, having no similarity to what's currently out.

Gul'dan P1 and P3 use same mechanics as the heroic fight, but remixed to play out very differently. And then there's the new phase after those.

We can't really compare SWP KJ and ToS KJ before we know (and have experienced) Mythic KJ.


Though I doubt ToS KJ will have the same feel to me as SPW KJ had, no matter how much more mechanically superior the newer version will be. Game was way fresher for me back then, and thus SWP KJ will be filled with rose tinted nostalgia.

[Grobovshik]

Though I doubt ToS KJ will have the same feel to me as SPW KJ had, no matter how much more mechanically superior the newer version will be.

Ofc it wont. WE already killed damn KJ (some did it several times via split runs). It burned half of fun. This game needs 1 diffuculty and lfr.

[Grusalugg]

people tend to forget that with each expansion our heroes get more and more strong too.

now I see under this thread people are saying that "we were only fighting half of him in swp and it was very hard but in ToS, we fight him face to face on his command ship and we can kill him. KJ doesn't seem badass"

I get the feeling and I agree but it's only true if you don't account our heroes' power factor, which is steadily increasing in time.

During SWP our heroes were lower level, had low experience and weaker gear compared to present day of the lore. With those conditions we barely fight him and now we can go face to face. For me it's totally ok, cause now our heroes are badasses too.

(and also, no Mythic difficulty yet)