CBO on senate Healthcare out....and its just as bad as you figured

[Sargerasraider]

Let the Republicans keep this stupid shit up and see what bills come in 2021 when they lose it all.

A good-sized majority of people either has Medicare (not changing), or employer sponsored health insurance (not changing). While this will solidify support of some against the Republicans, it will not make any actual health -care- reform any easier and any bills that come up at that time will likely go the way of the Clinton plan in the early 90's.


(Dated I know, but fairly close).

Oh, we pay way, way more than double what other countries pay.

It can't be that hard, then, to be specific. Where would you cut, and what kinds of cost savings will it give you?

Surely, you must be for the Senate bill which controls Medicaid costs by pinning the rate of growth to the inflation rate.

[Pterodactylus]

They released a new version of the bill that has an insurance manda....I mean, an insurance non-continuation penalty in it. So at least they got rid of that mandate!! What a fucking joke.

[Xeones]

A good-sized majority of people either has Medicare (not changing), or employer sponsored health insurance (not changing). While this will solidify support of some against the Republicans, it will not make any actual health -care- reform any easier and any bills that come up at that time will likely go the way of the Clinton plan in the early 90's.

http://sphweb.bumc.bu.edu/otlt/mph-m...e_piechart.jpg
(Dated I know, but fairly close).

This doesn't address the medicaid expansion which has major effects in red states. My state was called for Trump before the polls even closed. I live in a tiny state where this bill is a direct attack on a big chunk of the population.

The whole point of this bill is just to cut taxes on the rich and make their tax reform later easier to slash taxes even more on the rich. You can't even call this a health care bill. It's a tax bill being made at the cost of american lives, and they can't really escape that reality when it disproportionally attacks red states.

[Wyrt]

It can't be that hard, then, to be specific. Where would you cut, and what kinds of cost savings will it give you?

Surely, you must be for the Senate bill which controls Medicaid costs by pinning the rate of growth to the inflation rate.

Regulating medication costs and hospital costs.

There's no reason for a US hip replacement to cost $40k when the same thing in the UK costs $10k. Or for an MRI in the US to cost $1,121 while it only costs $335 in the UK.

Bringing prices down to UK level could save billions of dollars.

[Gestopft]

In the US, Medicare is terrible at controlling costs and Medicaid is not much better

They don't really do the kind rate-setting we're talking about- Medicare Part D is explicitly prohibited from negotiating down prices. The pharmaceudical industry is the most profitable in the country precisely because they, by and large, get to set their own prices.

A good-sized majority of people either has Medicare (not changing), or employer sponsored health insurance (not changing). While this will solidify support of some against the Republicans, it will not make any actual health -care- reform any easier and any bills that come up at that time will likely go the way of the Clinton plan in the early 90's.

Healthcare is going to continue to be a big issue as long as healthcare costs keep rising above inflation.

[Notshauna]

Basically. Free market doesn't work well when it's life saving equipment and drugs involved. There has to be regulation but politicians on both sides of the aisle have been against that.

edit: Hell, Japan already uses a conservative healthcare model that actually fucking works. But for some reason we in America think that because we're Americans, we have to reinvent the god damn wheel instead of looking at our allies who are already doing it right.

I'd say that free market economics simply don't work. As it turns out rather than compete it's far more effective to come up with ways not to compete.

[Ivanstone]

Where do you find the cost savings? Cutting physician salaries in half would net you a couple percent and drive more doctors out of primary care. Halving prescription costs may get you a couple more percent but would be difficult (this being said, I think it would be a terrific idea for the pharmaceutical companies in their negotiations with other healthcare systems to make them pay more and not put all of their costs on US consumers.)

How about you do something about the blood sucking leeches at the top of the chain:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Hammergren

McKesson is one of the top healthcare corporations in the U.S. I assume that means CEO Hammergren is worth his compensation of over 700 million since becoming CEO. I guess. The alternative point of view is that he and his corporation have grown rich on the pain and suffering of others. I think that's a little problematic.

[Felya]

I'd say that free market economics simply don't work. As it turns out rather than compete it's far more effective to come up with ways not to compete.

Free market doesn't work when applied to healthcare. Unless the market is so free, extortion is legitimate.

[Sargerasraider]

How about you do something about the blood sucking leeches at the top of the chain:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Hammergren

McKesson is one of the top healthcare corporations in the U.S. I assume that means CEO Hammergren is worth his compensation of over 700 million since becoming CEO. I guess. The alternative point of view is that he and his corporation have grown rich on the pain and suffering of others. I think that's a little problematic.

McKesson gets about 8 billion dollars per year from the federal government. (Maybe the investors think the compensation is worth whatever this is getting them).

I do think the government should do a better job negotiating and should be allowed to negotiate down drug prices and device prices (it is ridiculous that it cannot). A single payer plan may help with administrative costs (billing and coding, submitting to different companies, and processing all of this is complicated and needs a ton of people). A single payer plan will -not- help with the general current American desire for all tests ASAP (MRIs will be more expensive if you need more machines to help with wait times), will -not- help with the general American idea that everything needs to be done for everyone at all times, will -not- help with the general idea that everyone needs a nice new hospital with rooms similar to going to a hotel.

My point in posting this is not to disagree that something shouldn't be done - it obviously should. I'm mostly responding to the people who think that this will be in any way easy. It won't and will be politically very difficult trying to change a system that a large majority are happy with.

[Dead Moose Fandango]

Sometimes I think we should pull a "France" and lop off the heads of the top people in the country. But then I remember they have kids who may just be growing up just as bad, or not worse.

[Adam Jensen]

FFS.

Regulate the god damn price of medications and hospital visits already. Jesus fucking Christ, it's not that god damn difficult. Every other fucking country in the developed world fucking does it.

Fucking useless government. YOU'RE THERE TO PROTECT YOUR CITIZENS. Protect them you worthless pieces of shit. We're being extorted heavily by the healthcare industry and you worthless sacks of flesh can't lift a goddamn finger to help.

LOL you think government is here for you? We're not their subjects anymore, just their source of revenue. Their subjects are the corporations. Or rather, their masters.

Ryan and McConnell took in millions from the healthcare industry, which according to our supreme court, are people and money is speech.

You aren't people and you have no money, so you have no speech.

[Mafic]

They have no shot of passing this bill because they know it will be a bloodbathe.

The optics are bad for the Republicans when it comes to this bill, so I suspect what will happen is the hardliners will have to concede that more people have to be covered (eg medicaid expansion) before it has a chance to pass.

[Blur4stuff]

You can't make Obamacare more conservative without fucking over millions of people. Republicans need to quit applying their ideology to healthcare. It doesn't work.

[Kujako]

You can't make Obamacare more conservative without fucking over millions of people. Republicans need to quit applying their ideology to healthcare. It doesn't work.

But if all the sick people die, insurance will be cheaper for those of us who are left!

[Zan15]

A good-sized majority of people either has Medicare (not changing), or employer sponsored health insurance (not changing).
.

Employer sponsored health insurance will be effected

there is a nice list of benefits they no longer have to cover
pre existing, 6 month wait times....

Life time maxes can be applied again.


these are HUGE changes to your employer based insurance.

[Stormspellz]

the lemmings of the party over country won't care until they bury their loved ones and their world crashes around them. Of course they will prob still resort to the "evil liberals"

[schwarzkopf]

Id rather not be forced to buy health insurance just because someone else cant afford it so i gotta pay into their stupid system. How about leave me alone. If this bill gets rid of the stupid tax i have been paying the past 2 years then good riddance.

Well, if society - as you do - decides to let people die, then maybe it should just come out and say it.

Hiding behind some false sense of 'freedom' is no longer going to cut it - either the society values life or (as with you) it does not.

[Felya]

Id rather not be forced to buy health insurance just because someone else cant afford it so i gotta pay into their stupid system.

Healthcare insurance works, by using what you pay in, to pay for someone else. That's why there is so much talk about healthy people having insurance, which includes the mandate.

What you are actually saying, is that you want your money funneled through an insurance company, instead of your government. You'd prefer that healthcare depended on the will of stakeholders, not constituents.

- - - Updated - - -

Well, if society - as you do - decides to let people die, then maybe it should just come out and say it.

Hiding behind some false sense of 'freedom' is no longer going to cut it - either the society values life or (as with you) it does not.

I don't think people understand what insurance vs public option actually means. When you don't know what it means, then insert the Freedom or Real American catch all rhetoric.

There is so much freedom in being beholden to insurance companies, instead of the government of the people, by the people, for the people. /sarcasm

[Sesshou]

Let the Republicans keep this stupid shit up and see what bills come in 2021 when they lose it all.

You think Democrats in Congress would do something decent if they had the majority? You realize most Dems are also against anything that would actually qualify as a solution to the healthcare issue right? But sure, keep making it a Democrats vs Republicans fight instead of a the people vs politicians fight. Would a Democrat bill likely be better than this? Yeah. However, slightly less stinky shit is still shit.

[Celista]

Good I hope it dies. We are the wealthiest country in the world, we can have affordable healthcare for everyone. SEVERAL other countries offer this, we can too.

Id rather not be forced to buy health insurance just because someone else cant afford it so i gotta pay into their stupid system. How about leave me alone. If this bill gets rid of the stupid tax i have been paying the past 2 years then good riddance.

Well if you go without insurance you're not allowed to buy it for 6 months. So have fun with that...you're WAY better off supporting a bill that actually addresses health care bloat, this does nothing to ensure costs will go down.