Seattle’s Minimum Wage Hike May Have Gone Too Far

[Zan15]

[QUOTE=WoWGoneBad;46267344]

so wait, if they are making 11 dollars an hour you want them to go back to school, and pay for it how?


So if everyone goes back to school, poof instant high paying job.


what a fantasy land....

No.. never had I said that higher education = insta job. I had to wait 6+ years after my education. Point is if you want more than min wage DO SOMETHING to show you deserve more. Most min wage Retail/Restaurant jobs can be done by touchscreen today so why bother with paying someone to do it when there is an alternative.

My point is that wage=skills. Ever notice when seeing jobs posted on line for things like Admin Assistant, Customer Support, Help Desk, there is a line that says Pay is dependent n "Experience".

Why should someone with ZERO experience and ZERO initiative to learn a skill make the same amount as those who too the time to learn a skill to earn that same amount? You want an easy job then get shit money. You want to earn a good living get a skill or trade that is in demand. I will NEVER say that doing that will get you the job but it sure dont hurt in trying.

No one said they wanted to make the same amount as someone with more experience or different skill or more skill...
they said they wanted a fair wage.

no one said those people with more experience and more initiative had to all of a sudden stop asking for raises because you raised the min wage.


and it could hurt in trying, if you spend all that money going to school and end up not getting that job but now have 40k in student loans and have your pay garnished.


when was the last time customers protested outside your company, when it was raise time....because those customers did not want to pay more for the products your company sells. i would prefer that your company not give you a raise this year so i don't have to pay more. if you don't like it i guess you could go back to school for a job that will still give you pay raises.

[Gestopft]

Why should someone with ZERO experience and ZERO initiative to learn a skill make the same amount as those who too the time to learn a skill to earn that same amount?

They shouldn't. Increasing the floor also increases the bargaining power of more skilled workers.

Wage=skills, right?

[WoWGoneBad]

They have some choice and little power. Those with a respectable amount of "choice and power" are the minority that have highly developed, in-demand skill sets.
I don't get why people are so against skimming from the top, but are completely fine with knocking out the bottom. The top has seen increases consistently for years, while the bottom and middle stagnate and inflation continues ever on, the way inflation does.

You realize the reverse of what Nakotsu said is exactly why the top makes so much, right? They take from the bottom to raise up the top. Year over year over year, and continue to do so. Wages have nearly stagnated the past couple decades, while prices continue to climb. Where do you think the difference goes? Just *poof* magicked away? Oh no wait, there it is, you look at the stats and you find it padding the wages of top-earners.

I don't necessarily agree with the hiking minimum wage approach, but things do need balancing out. And I don't see why that shouldn't come out of the ever inflating pockets of the top earners. Heck, they don't even need to be knocked down to a reasonable wage, just something less ridiculous.

I am ALL for taking from the top to give to the bottom. HELL in my Economics class back in 2006 it was said China does EXACTLY this. If there is a need to downsize the workforce to save profits, it was the HIGHER UPS that were told to take a leave of absence so that their wage could be used to bolster the lower wage workers and prevent unemployment. Now coming from a professor I would take this with a leap of faith but if they did do that then that is exactly the kind of action that could work for the min wage workers of Muricah.

I still say that a job that requires no skill or even effort to do would not be given the same wage as those who are in professions that had to work at getting to where they. If you are there, i get it circumstances brought you to that point, hell it did for me as well. But if you choose to 'stay' in those circumstances then you 'choose' to deal with the wages you are given for a job that anyone off the street can do and you wont even be missed.

[Theinquisition]

I know for a fact the two of you didn't actually read since you replied so quickly to leave your smug shit replies.

Woke tactics

I read the news this morning while in bed

sorry dude.

2 scoops

2 genders

2 terms

deal with it.

[WoWGoneBad]

So based on your skills = wages argument that you're choosing to go with how much would you pay say...a janitor...or a housekeeper?

$12/hour...? Would you give them benefits?

How about someone just entering a job field with no experience but gets 4 months of on the job training?

Just trying to see where you're at here....

To see where I am comming from, I will give you examples. I have been receiving Recruiter emails for Customer Service and Support jobs. Each of them are Entry Level. Each one offered on average 12-17 an hour. That is their Minimum with little to know experience but have the education for the job.

Type of position: W2 hourly/contract
Length of assignment: 1 year contract
End Client: Xerox ACS (you will be an employee of inSync Staffing working on a contract/temporary assignment)
Location: Boston, MA
Pay rate: 14.59/hr
Client Job Order#: XNAJP00017221

Job Title: Customer Service Representative
Location: 27 Forge Parkway, Franklin, MA 02038
Days/Hours: M-F, 9-6. No overtime
Estimated Start Date: ASAP
Duration: 3 months, temp to perm if they do well
Pay Rate: 16.50/hour

Job Title: Participant Services Representative
Location: 1 Investors Way, Norwood, MA
Hourly Rate: $15.25/hr
Training: 5 weeks; 8AM-5PM M-F
Start Date: Aug 3rd
Shifts: various shifts between 8AM-10PM Monday-Friday

I, _________, give The Judge Group the exclusive right to represent me at JP Morgan chase for Salem, NH 03079 Location. I do not give any other vendors the right to represent me on this request. I’ll submit your resume for this position @$17/hr. on W2

Your resume is submitted over to HP @$18.00/hr. on W2 for position ID HEJP00003317 for consideration. I’ll keep you posted on updates from them.

The above are just a few of the ones I receive( others are too old and completely purged from my email). So I ask you this. What is the point of going to school getting an education and trying to succeed in a career when I can just go to the local Wal-Mart and get paid for $15 and up( that is what the Wal-mart near me is offering).

Why bother with education for a career when we can keep bullying government and corporations to hike up the min wage so we can do jobs that require no skill? As SOME point you must take responsibility and do something to better your life.

And I challenge you to find any Janitor who only makes $12 an hour. If you have an example then I will be willing to see your point of view. I have seen Janitor jobs offering 35-40k per year. That is a starting rate of $16 and change not $12 per hour.

[Felya]

Seattle is in a economic and labor boom right now. The study doesn't account for the fact that jobs are moving into higher price ranges, because of the boom. Their control was other cities in WA, none of which remotely are experiencing a boom right now. It's the Berkeley study, that only focused on food service industry. Who in their findings, matched just about every other forecast.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/26/b...imum-wage.html

- - - Updated - - -

To see where I am comming from, I will give you examples. I have been receiving Recruiter emails for Customer Service and Support jobs. Each of them are Entry Level. Each one offered on average 12-17 an hour. That is their Minimum with little to know experience but have the education for the job.

Type of position: W2 hourly/contract
Length of assignment: 1 year contract
End Client: Xerox ACS (you will be an employee of inSync Staffing working on a contract/temporary assignment)
Location: Boston, MA
Pay rate: 14.59/hr
Client Job Order#: XNAJP00017221

Job Title: Customer Service Representative
Location: 27 Forge Parkway, Franklin, MA 02038
Days/Hours: M-F, 9-6. No overtime
Estimated Start Date: ASAP
Duration: 3 months, temp to perm if they do well
Pay Rate: 16.50/hour

Job Title: Participant Services Representative
Location: 1 Investors Way, Norwood, MA
Hourly Rate: $15.25/hr
Training: 5 weeks; 8AM-5PM M-F
Start Date: Aug 3rd
Shifts: various shifts between 8AM-10PM Monday-Friday

I, _________, give The Judge Group the exclusive right to represent me at JP Morgan chase for Salem, NH 03079 Location. I do not give any other vendors the right to represent me on this request. I’ll submit your resume for this position @$17/hr. on W2

Your resume is submitted over to HP @$18.00/hr. on W2 for position ID HEJP00003317 for consideration. I’ll keep you posted on updates from them.

The above are just a few of the ones I receive( others are too old and completely purged from my email). So I ask you this. What is the point of going to school getting an education and trying to succeed in a career when I can just go to the local Wal-Mart and get paid for $15 and up( that is what the Wal-mart near me is offering).

Why bother with education for a career when we can keep bullying government and corporations to hike up the min wage so we can do jobs that require no skill? As SOME point you must take responsibility and do something to better your life.

And I challenge you to find any Janitor who only makes $12 an hour. If you have an example then I will be willing to see your point of view. I have seen Janitor jobs offering 35-40k per year. That is a starting rate of $16 and change not $12 per hour.

The reason for the pay, is due to this being temp work. You get paid 15$ an hour, then are on unemployment. There is little to no chance of actually being hired on and temp work is generally frowned upon on resumes. You are setting your self up for a cycle of shit, with little future.

[Captain N]

-snip-

So your argument is why should people who are educated be paid the same as someone who isn't? For the record I asked you what you think a janitor should be paid...not that they are paid $12/hour.

https://up.jobs/job/opening/077714

https://up.jobs/job/opening/Custodian/Chicago/IL/077648

These are jobs that don't require any training whatsoever and are sitting at $22-$24/hour with a full benefits package

Here's another job that pays out $40,000/year to start (in reality it's closer to $60,000) while the employee still goes through their training program.

https://up.jobs/job/opening/Train%20...2?jsl=30088349

None of those have an education requirement to work there -- and their starting wages are impressive. The Train Crew Conductor will eventually bump up to about $310/day and because of his skills will make more than the Coach Cleaner or Janitor...and if he gets to my level will be making $588/day as an Engineer. Just because the bottom makes more doesn't mean that those with skills aren't going to be making more too. The issue is we have a lot of people underpaid for their education and skills that we just accept whatever a Company throws at us.

The problem with the people who shake their first and demand others do better absolutely refuse to take those three jobs I listed....even though in most of the cases they're currently being paid much much less than that Coach Cleaner. It's just easier for them to bring up the education and skills argument as a feel good tactic about their own mediocrity.

[WoWGoneBad]

[QUOTE=Zan15;46267392]

No one said they wanted to make the same amount as someone with more experience or different skill or more skill...
they said they wanted a fair wage.

15 is currently the going rate of Entry level Professional careers so yes, when they are asking for $15 her hour they are asking for the same as skilled workers.

no one said those people with more experience and more initiative had to all of a sudden stop asking for raises because you raised the min wage.

No they did not, and those people in those positions actually do. Some get them some dont. Depends on the company.

and it could hurt in trying, if you spend all that money going to school and end up not getting that job but now have 40k in student loans and have your pay garnished.

I know this all too well. I myself am already 40k + in student debt and am looking for my next opportunity in my field. But n guts no glory. This is the country we live in and it is either you move with the current or get left behind. TRhis is the country we live in. ALL are fucked and all are screwed except the top 10%

when was the last time customers protested outside your company, when it was raise time....because those customers did not want to pay more for the products your company sells. i would prefer that your company not give you a raise this year so i don't have to pay more. if you don't like it i guess you could go back to school for a job that will still give you pay raises.

BOLD 1: So you would rather people not get a min wage increase because you know that your products will increase in cost or decrease in size for the same price? Then why are you commenting here? This is a study calling for the increase in min wage but you just posted that you dont want workers getting a raise.........

BOLD 2: Is this not EXACTLY what I have been saying. You dont like your low wage job. Then get the skills to get higher wages. Thank you kindly for proving my point from a 'customer;' perspective.

BTW customers have been rooting for min Wage increases all over the country. Those customers are the Min Wage workers ALONG with customers who think they are getting shafted. Problem is, once those raises do go through, lets see those same min wage customers who are now on the unemployment line or who are calling Food Stamps/Welfare for additional money cuz their hours got cut due to the wage increase say that is was a great idea to raise the wage then. Or the Customers who felt the plight of the min wage workers say that it was a great idea to raise wages when the cost of their products go up.

[Kallisto]

Or maybe we should accept that some jobs aren't met to provide a "living wage". You shouldn't expect to flip burgers at mcdonalds and have an air conditioned, 1 bedroom apartment all to yourself. Society doesn't owe you a comfortable life because your parents irresponsibly rubbed their genitalia together and couldn't impart on you the importance of gaining a marketable skill.

Nope, the minimum wage when introduced was put in place for one simple reason. "So that anyone 40 hours per week shall no longer be unable to support wife and a child." the whole Minimum wage was introduced as a means for a living wage. No matter what you do, where you live. If you work 40 hours the minimum wage is supposed to be there so you can have an apartment, stay at home partner, child and few luxuries.

That was the intention in the US when it was signed into law.

[Theodarzna]

They have some choice and little power. Those with a respectable amount of "choice and power" are the minority that have highly developed, in-demand skill sets.
I don't get why people are so against skimming from the top, but are completely fine with knocking out the bottom. The top has seen increases consistently for years, while the bottom and middle stagnate and inflation continues ever on, the way inflation does.

You realize the reverse of what Nakotsu said is exactly why the top makes so much, right? They take from the bottom to raise up the top. Year over year over year, and continue to do so. Wages have nearly stagnated the past couple decades, while prices continue to climb. Where do you think the difference goes? Just *poof* magicked away? Oh no wait, there it is, you look at the stats and you find it padding the wages of top-earners.

I don't necessarily agree with the hiking minimum wage approach, but things do need balancing out. And I don't see why that shouldn't come out of the ever inflating pockets of the top earners. Heck, they don't even need to be knocked down to a reasonable wage, just something less ridiculous.

The elite classes pay for their anti-fragility but increasing the fragility of others.

[WoWGoneBad]

So your argument is why should people who are educated be paid the same as someone who isn't? For the record I asked you what you think a janitor should be paid...not that they are paid $12/hour.

https://up.jobs/job/opening/077714

https://up.jobs/job/opening/Custodian/Chicago/IL/077648

These are jobs that don't require any training whatsoever and are sitting at $22-$24/hour with a full benefits package

Here's another job that pays out $40,000/year to start (in reality it's closer to $60,000) while the employee still goes through their training program.

https://up.jobs/job/opening/Train%20...2?jsl=30088349

So here is the thing..... if they are skill less then why are people not going for them and still staying with the min wage restaurant/Retail sector? You are not really proving a point so much as agreeing with me that if you want more then do more. BTW I am of the belief that a Janitor or other type of custodial worker should be paid 16-19 per hour depending on the job requirements, size of the building they are cleaning and if there are any hazardous conditions be paid more.

My contention on the issue is with the restaurant/Retail sector demanding that they be paid 15 or more per hour for punching a touchscreen or stocking a shelf. I have done Stock for 15-19 years and was a Supervisor for about 14 of those years in various positions. My highest wage was $12.58 per hour. I started out at $9 per hour. I found the pay was not for me so went to school and waited my time and scored a Customer Support position that promoted me to Senior Support. I started out at $35k and my Senior Support position wqas $43.5k a year.

I wanted more and I got more. If restaurant/Retail sector employees want more then go GET more.

None of those have an education requirement to work there -- and their starting wages are impressive. The Train Crew Conductor will eventually bump up to about $310/day and because of his skills will make more than the Coach Cleaner or Janitor...and if he gets to my level will be making $588/day as an Engineer. Just because the bottom makes more doesn't mean that those with skills aren't going to be making more too. The issue is we have a lot of people underpaid for their education and skills that we just accept whatever a Company throws at us.

The problem with the people who shake their first and demand others do better absolutely refuse to take those three jobs I listed....even though in most of the cases they're currently being paid much much less than that Coach Cleaner. It's just easier for them to bring up the education and skills argument as a feel good tactic about their own mediocrity.

Again you are proving my point. If you want more do more to find them. These jobs pay more and some even train you for the job while you are working. But yet people in those min wage restaurant/Retail sector choose to stay there and demand that their min wage be increased because they dont want to try to BE more.

- - - Updated - - -

Nope, the minimum wage when introduced was put in place for one simple reason. "So that anyone 40 hours per week shall no longer be unable to support wife and a child." the whole Minimum wage was introduced as a means for a living wage. No matter what you do, where you live. If you work 40 hours the minimum wage is supposed to be there so you can have an apartment, stay at home partner, child and few luxuries.

That was the intention in the US when it was signed into law.

If that is truly the case, then why does the Professional and Trade sectors pay higher than the min wage? The Min Wage is a means to provide for a time not to live off of for the rest of your life. I will agree with you that min wage should be able to provide some support for a family, but these jobs were not meant as the MAIN support structure. That time was long past after the production boom of WW2 came to a close and Government did not step in to help stabilize the economy from a workers perspective and let Corporate America completely dominate the country.

The intention has long since died with the Corporate Governance of the Government. Until people rise up and make Government accountable for corporations and their over inflation of money and profit we are stuck doing what we have to do.

[Captain N]

So here is the thing..... if they are skill less then why are people not going for them and still staying with the min wage restaurant/Retail sector? You are not really proving a point so much as agreeing with me that if you want more then do more. BTW I am of the belief that a Janitor or other type of custodial worker should be paid 16-19 per hour depending on the job requirements, size of the building they are cleaning and if there are any hazardous conditions be paid more.

My contention on the issue is with the restaurant/Retail sector demanding that they be paid 15 or more per hour for punching a touchscreen or stocking a shelf. I have done Stock for 15-19 years and was a Supervisor for about 14 of those years in various positions. My highest wage was $12.58 per hour. I started out at $9 per hour. I found the pay was not for me so went to school and waited my time and scored a Customer Support position that promoted me to Senior Support. I started out at $35k and my Senior Support position wqas $43.5k a year.

I wanted more and I got more. If restaurant/Retail sector employees want more then go GET more.


Again you are proving my point. If you want more do more to find them. These jobs pay more and some even train you for the job while you are working. But yet people in those min wage restaurant/Retail sector choose to stay there and demand that their min wage be increased because they dont want to try to BE more.

Are you moving goal posts because your initial argument was that Education + Skills = Wages.

That's fantastic except for the fact that the Temp Jobs you listed that required skills and education were paid vastly less than a Coach Cleaner or a Janitor. You know the two jobs that are actual permanent jobs and not something that will end you on unemployment six months down the road.

If you want to swap retail anecdotes in 1992 I was 16 years old an a manager of the electronics department of a box store here in Chicago. I worked 4pm-12a Sunday thru Thursday and they paid me $14/hour ($24.51 in 2017 dollars http://www.dollartimes.com/inflation...t=14&year=1992) and even someone working for $8.50/hour in 2000 was making the equivalent of $12.41/hour today. People are making less in retail than they did even 17 years ago.

Sure people can do more...and people can also lose their good paying jobs at the drop of a hat anymore. Are you insinuating that someone who has practiced a certain job field or craft for 20+ years go back to school and learn the skills for an entry level position so they can compete with people half their age for a fraction of the wages they previously earned?

[ImpTaimer]

People against keeping minimum wage adjusted to inflation are as retarded as people who don't expect job competition to be tighter with higher minimum wage.

This is entirely an employer related issue. They want to hire people to ease their burden, but they're not willing to take the financial risks involved which may include training. The burden then falls upon education facilities that arbitrarily inflate the price and demand of education. (Are you glad you got that liberal arts degree only worth a fraction of its tuition cost?)

Even if employers did what they're suppose to, oligopolies just don't spend back into the economy and merely pool their wealth amongst a circle. (ie. Google and its subgroups). The money doesn't really go anywhere without it being taxed, and these oligopolies go out of their way to avoid taxes. They also create ways to dissuade free market through third-party enforcement companies (ie DMCA), lobbying legislation, abusing copyright/patents, inflating real-estate prices etc.

It's all a vicious cycle of corporate greed. A dystopian fever dream where money never runs out and you never have to pay taxes on it. "Liberals" want to live in a consumer-based society and let third-world countries be the production, but where's the money going to come from?

Reminder that overpopulation is the biggest contributor to poverty, not higher minimum wage. Ignore all the fake outrage about Japan's lower birthrates.

[beanman12345]

lol @ People getting confirmation bias when it clearly states, "The paper’s findings are preliminary and have not yet been subjected to peer review." Talk about being stupid AF.

[WoWGoneBad]

Are you moving goal posts because your initial argument was that Education + Skills = Wages.

That's fantastic except for the fact that the Temp Jobs you listed that required skills and education were paid vastly less than a Coach Cleaner or a Janitor. You know the two jobs that are actual permanent jobs and not something that will end you on unemployment six months down the road.

If you want to swap retail anecdotes in 1992 I was 16 years old an a manager of the electronics department of a box store here in Chicago. I worked 4pm-12a Sunday thru Thursday and they paid me $14/hour ($24.51 in 2017 dollars http://www.dollartimes.com/inflation...t=14&year=1992) and even someone working for $8.50/hour in 2000 was making the equivalent of $12.41/hour today. People are making less in retail than they did even 17 years ago.

Sure people can do more...and people can also lose their good paying jobs at the drop of a hat anymore. Are you insinuating that someone who has practiced a certain job field or craft for 20+ years go back to school and learn the skills for an entry level position so they can compete with people half their age for a fraction of the wages they previously earned?

Dude I am not moving anything. You proved that there are jobs out there that dont require skills and available. GOOD I am glad to see there are. But question is how many restaurant/Retail sector employees are making a move on those positions. If those jobs are out there then people in the restaurant/Retail sector need to start applying for them and getting more money for a better job. My point is that if they CHOOSE to remain in the restaurant/Retail sector where wages are garbage then they are CHOOSING to stay in that job at those wages.

I sure as HELL AM!! I was in Gibbs college for Computer Network Operations and in another class there was a 60+ YEAR old man who was a heart surgeon who was learning Web Design. He was unable to to keep doing surgery so went back to school with people 2 to 3 times his JUNIOR learning a new skill. Granted he has money put aside from his surgeon career, buthte point is it CAN be done.

Matter of fact I AM doing it RIGHT NOW. I am currently back in school for my Bachelors Degree in Business Leadership. I have been competing with those 20somethings for the past 15 years and still am. I am doing a low wage job right now while waiting to get my Bachelors in Leadership and will prolly be doing it still after I graduate AGAIN! but point is that I am 'willing' do do more to be more to EARN more.

Hell if I was in any of those other job locations I would apply myself as I could use that kind of money to help my fam of 6. So as you can see I have lived both sides of the spectrum and know the pitfalls and gains of both worlds just as I am sure you are.

Point is it CAN be done. If you want it go for it. If you dont then dont bitch that you are not making enough.

[Theinquisition]

Boo fucking hoo, higher labor costs challenge business owners' god given rights to obscene profit-taking, let's all riot.

I know you guys worship at the alter of unrestrained lessaiz-faire capitalism, but there's a time to not give so much a fuck about high profits.

*facepalm*

I hope you do realize that the majority of low wage earners affected by the rising unemployment are going to be those employed by small business.

Small businesses which primarily run in inner city areas and provide employment to those that need it the most.

those small businesses often run on razor thin margins and the people that own them often are barely scraping by themselves.

Not every business is walmart and not every business owner a stereotypical monopoly man rich fat cat.

[WoWGoneBad]

People against keeping minimum wage adjusted to inflation are as retarded as people who don't expect job competition to be tighter with higher minimum wage.

This is entirely an employer related issue. They want to hire people to ease their burden, but they're not willing to take the financial risks involved which may include training. The burden then falls upon education facilities that arbitrarily inflate the price and demand of education. (Are you glad you got that liberal arts degree only worth a fraction of its tuition cost?)

Even if employers did what they're suppose to, oligopolies just don't spend back into the economy and merely pool their wealth amongst a circle. (ie. Google and its subgroups). The money doesn't really go anywhere without it being taxed, and these oligopolies go out of their way to avoid taxes. They also create ways to dissuade free market through third-party enforcement companies (ie DMCA), lobbying legislation, abusing copyright/patents, inflating real-estate prices etc.

It's all a vicious cycle of corporate greed. A dystopian fever dream where money never runs out and you never have to pay taxes on it. "Liberals" want to live in a consumer-based society and let third-world countries be the production, but where's the money going to come from?

Reminder that overpopulation is the biggest contributor to poverty, not higher minimum wage. Ignore all the fake outrage about Japan's lower birthrates.

I absolutely agree with this view point. I dont like that corporations run this way but it is the country we are living in. Keep up or get left behind. We are living in a Corporate Governance Government,and until the Government starts taking to task and holding corporations accountable then we will remain in this wage war world.

There is no win/win in this issue and there wont be. But it is fight or surrender. I choose to fight and keep on rising up rather than stay down and complain.

[Nihilist74]

Even if it is a mistake. Nice to see a government making an error in favor of the workers instead of the bourgeois.

Our governments should be passing rent control laws and/or other government programs that help people purchase more affordable homes.

[Not A Cat]

The minimum wage increase definitely screwed over a lot of small businesses in my area.

The biggest problem was they couldn't afford to give people raises. So you work your ass off at a place, get promoted and are granted many more responsibilities but you're only being paid $2/hr more than some lazy jerk who does the bare minimum. It's infuriating and is one of the reasons I didn't feel bad leaving my last job.

Luckily I found a job that's offering to pay me through the rest of my degree or else I would be drowning in salt.

[Laerrus]

If you think it is bad for manual workers now, just wait another few years when automation really starts to take off. McDonald's going automated is only the tip of the iceberg, many more companies will follow suit when they see the lowered overhead.

Now would be a very good time for people to go back to school for IT and robotics. :P