Seattle’s Minimum Wage Hike May Have Gone Too Far

[Mittens]

Well i'm at work so I haven't had a lot of time to dig into the study in detail; however, how corporate america and anyone against a living wage are perceiving it as a vindication to something they already believed. Now did they raise the price too high too quickly? Possible, but it's only been in effect for 6 months which is hardly enough time to get any kind of trend line within a subset. Also does the study even take into account that smaller companies under 500 employees only pay $11 dollars an hour?

The minimum wage hike from 11 to 13 has been in effect since early january 2016. The study covers 9 months of the year and yes it covers small companies.

[Theinquisition]

Even if it is a mistake. Nice to see a government making an error in favor of the workers instead of the bourgeois.

Our governments should be passing rent control laws and/or other government programs that help people purchase more affordable homes.

damn commies.

dude, it DOESN'T help workers, it leads to unemployment in the long term as business shut down, lower hours, or cut employees to make up the difference.

As far as rent control, that leads to less new homes being built, and current rental properties becoming dilapidated since their is no incentive for owners to improve the property.

It's like you seriously want to bend over and fuck the proletariat, which is pretty par for the course with communists.

[Arewn]

Actually, I don't support either. And consumers do have all the power, they are simply too lazy and/or ignorant to use that power. If you don't like a company's behavior, boycott that company. Get your friends and family to do the same. If a company wants to stay in business, they will listen to their customers.

The consumer has aggregate power, in the way you describe it.
"The consumer" is not a hive mind though. So the ability to marshal consumer power is itself limited. The market isn't perfect either, monopolies or near-monopolies don't give much room to flex that "consumer power".

Plenty of people think apple products are a rip-off, will not buy them, and discourage others from doing so. Yet Idevice after Idevice sells just fine despite the brand-markup.

The consumer certainly has some power, but not all. Companies, depending on the product and market-state, have varying amounts of power. A company "listening to their customers" does not necessarily equate to giving in to their demands. It just means offering the right deals to the right people. Instead of caving to a boycott, they could market at another demographic, one that is willing to buy. Or they can go on campaigns to change public perceptions, possibly foiling the boycott. Companies do have the potential to outmaneuver random bunches of people that don't like them.


With that said, I thought we were talking about jobs, so I was actually referring to an individual's abilities to be picky about who they work for and for how much. I thought you just mis-termed them as "consumers" in the context of the conversation.

[Theinquisition]

The minimum wage increase definitely screwed over a lot of small businesses in my area.

The biggest problem was they couldn't afford to give people raises. So you work your ass off at a place, get promoted and are granted many more responsibilities but you're only being paid $2/hr more than some lazy jerk who does the bare minimum. It's infuriating and is one of the reasons I didn't feel bad leaving my last job.

Luckily I found a job that's offering to pay me through the rest of my degree or else I would be drowning in salt.

I know here in AZ, amy people are also finding that despite the media telling current workers that they would receive raises to offset the rising minimum wage for new workers, they haven't.

So new employees are making as much as seasoned, experienced employees.

[xChurch]

Kind of a silly study since it only looks at Seattle-specific companies.

[Mittens]

Even if it is a mistake. Nice to see a government making an error in favor of the workers instead of the bourgeois.

Our governments should be passing rent control laws and/or other government programs that help people purchase more affordable homes.

Literally the definition of feel good policy.

[God Save The King]

If you actually read the sources, and even the article itself, that's a really click-baity title. Shame, I expected better from 538.

Seattle seems fine though.

[Elegiac]

Or maybe we should accept that some jobs aren't met to provide a "living wage".

In which case they are not worth doing.

You can flip your own burgers if that's your attitude.

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dude, it DOESN'T help workers, it leads to unemployment in the long term as business shut down, lower hours, or cut employees to make up the difference.

Which really explains all the 'help wanted' signs in Seattle, right?

[WoWGoneBad]

The minimum wage increase definitely screwed over a lot of small businesses in my area.

The biggest problem was they couldn't afford to give people raises. So you work your ass off at a place, get promoted and are granted many more responsibilities but you're only being paid $2/hr more than some lazy jerk who does the bare minimum. It's infuriating and is one of the reasons I didn't feel bad leaving my last job.

Luckily I found a job that's offering to pay me through the rest of my degree or else I would be drowning in salt.

That is why I am not for raising the minimum wage. It is a wage for doing the minimum of work for a job that requires minimum effort or skill.

[Elegiac]

That is why I am not for raising the minimum wage. It is a wage for doing the minimum of work for a job that requires minimum effort or skill.

If a job does not meet the minimum of providing a living wage then that job is not worth anyone's time.

Again, you lot enjoy bitching about how much better you are than burger flippers but deem that profession sufficiently necessary to spend money on it.

[WoWGoneBad]

In which case they are not worth doing. You can flip your own burgers if that's your attitude.

Or Bag our own groceries, get your own coffee, put in your order on a touchscreen Tablet cellphone or kiosk........ This is ALREADY being done by consumers all over this country and HELL even the WORLD. Minimum effort job that can be done and ordered in advance by consumers are being phased out as we speak and post here.

As a poster said up above, get into school for IT or Robotics. Or get a skill in Medical, Legal, HVAC, Welding, Construction, janitorial, Mechanical, transportation, I could go on but will digress here. There are better jobs out there other than punching a touchscreen which customers are already doing themselves with Apps and kiosks. Get on board or get left behind.

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I know here in AZ, amy people are also finding that despite the media telling current workers that they would receive raises to offset the rising minimum wage for new workers, they haven't.

So new employees are making as much as seasoned, experienced employees.

While working at CVS I was making 10 an hour after 2 1/2 years there and had new hire cashiers getting that same amount when they started. I get that as years go by the rise of min wage is needed but there has to be a STOP gap to get people to get into trades or Professions rather than staying with jobs that are minimum effort required.

[Elegiac]

Or Bag our own groceries, get your own coffee, put in your order on a touchscreen Tablet cellphone or kiosk........ This is ALREADY being done by consumers all over this country and HELL even the WORLD. Minimum effort job that can be done and ordered in advance by consumers are being phased out as we speak and post here.

So....exactly why the fuck are you bitching, again?

As a poster said up above, get into school for IT or Robotics. Or get a skill in Medical, Legal, HVAC, Welding, Construction, janitorial, Mechanical, transportation, I could go on but will digress here. There are better jobs out there other than punching a touchscreen which customers are already doing themselves with Apps and kiosks. Get on board or get left behind.

Most of these industries are already oversaturated in terms of qualified people versus available jobs; moreover, all of these things require education which...guess what...costs money. Which people don't have unless they are paid decently.

The bootstraps argument is retarded and you should feel ashamed for buying into it.

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While working at CVS I was making 10 an hour after 2 1/2 years there and had new hire cashiers getting that same amount when they started. I get that as years go by the rise of min wage is needed but there has to be a STOP gap to get people to get into trades or Professions rather than staying with jobs that are minimum effort required.

You realise that minimum wage hikes cascade upwards to most income brackets, right?

[Independent voter]

The not so poor will move in and take the jobs the poor used to have, the poor will have to move out of the city, I think this was their plan all along.

[WoWGoneBad]

If a job does not meet the minimum of providing a living wage then that job is not worth anyone's time.

Again, you lot enjoy bitching about how much better you are than burger flippers but deem that profession sufficiently necessary to spend money on it.

Dude, I never said I was 'better' than the burger flippers. I have done many minimum effort jobs over my 30 years of working. I flipped burgers myself at Waffle House, Dishwashing, Stocking shelves, Cashier, inventory clerk....... I have done a /number of minimum effort wage jobs and when I wanted more I got an education and made more money when leaving the minimum effort wage jobs.

So I am bitching yes, but I am bitching because I made the effort to get out and be more while those who want more money for less work cry that they cant get it. You want more money then get your education and get more money or as this post goes look into jobs like these. If you want more do the effort to get more.

https://up.jobs/job/opening/077714

https://up.jobs/job/opening/Custodian/Chicago/IL/077648

These are jobs that don't require any training whatsoever and are sitting at $22-$24/hour with a full benefits package

Here's another job that pays out $40,000/year to start (in reality it's closer to $60,000) while the employee still goes through their training program.

https://up.jobs/job/opening/Train%20...2?jsl=30088349

[Machismo]

The consumer has aggregate power, in the way you describe it.
"The consumer" is not a hive mind though. So the ability to marshal consumer power is itself limited. The market isn't perfect either, monopolies or near-monopolies don't give much room to flex that "consumer power".

Plenty of people think apple products are a rip-off, will not buy them, and discourage others from doing so. Yet Idevice after Idevice sells just fine despite the brand-markup.

The consumer certainly has some power, but not all. Companies, depending on the product and market-state, have varying amounts of power. A company "listening to their customers" does not necessarily equate to giving in to their demands. It just means offering the right deals to the right people. Instead of caving to a boycott, they could market at another demographic, one that is willing to buy. Or they can go on campaigns to change public perceptions, possibly foiling the boycott. Companies do have the potential to outmaneuver random bunches of people that don't like them.


With that said, I thought we were talking about jobs, so I was actually referring to an individual's abilities to be picky about who they work for and for how much. I thought you just mis-termed them as "consumers" in the context of the conversation.

The consumer does not have to be a hive mind, merely willing to back up what he or she claims to want.

[WoWGoneBad]

So....exactly why the fuck are you bitching, again?

I am stating that these jobs require no effort so do not deserve to be paid more.

Most of these industries are already oversaturated in terms of qualified people versus available jobs; moreover, all of these things require education which...guess what...costs money. Which people don't have unless they are paid decently.
The bootstraps argument is retarded and you should feel ashamed for buying into it.

33 pages of listings on Career Builder alone
http://www.careerbuilder.com/jobs-welder?page_number=33

50 pages for Monster
https://www.monster.com/jobs/q-weldi...s.aspx?page=50

50+ pages Indeed
https://www.indeed.com/jobs?q=Welder...kFHO_LIYA0t2YN

The market for Welding ALONE does not appear to be very over saturated. Granted as you refine to entry level you will not find as much, but on Indeed alone there are 3700 jobs for Entry level Welding starting at $30k.



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You realise that minimum wage hikes cascade upwards to most income brackets, right?

Umm yes.... yes I do which was why I did not complain when they made that much at that time when I did not eve n start at that myself.

[Draco-Onis]

You forgot to add

There's nothing to add the research has not been reviewed, some of their methodologies have been proven false previously, people are just using this information to confirm whatever they believe. There are decades worth of research on raising the minimum wage though nothing in this short of a period of time so I will withhold judgement until the study is properly vetted.

[WoWGoneBad]

No, everyone goes through public education. If you're in your late 20s and never developed a trade, that's on you. We don't live in a world free of consequence, and we never have nor we will ever. If your hands are too delicate to pour concrete or move heavy boxes, no one else should feel sorry that you want to live in imagination land and expect the rest of the world to bend over backwards to accommodate your laziness and lack of initiative. If you're a poor adult in America, it's because you have a history of bad choices. End of story.

EXACTLY...... I started making my own money at 12 mowing lawns, raking leaves, shoveling snow, carrying groceries to cars.... I learned that if I wanted money I had to DO something to earn it. I went into the military to learn Construction Equipment Repair and they paid for it and paid me to do it. I kept learning and improving MYSELF to earn more. I didnt stay at Kings Supermarket as a cashier for 15 years+ and complain that the wage I earned was not enough to take care of me and my family. I went to school I learned skills and I applied them to jobs that made more than min wage.

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There's nothing to add the research has not been reviewed, some of their methodologies have been proven false previously, people are just using this information to confirm whatever they believe. There are decades worth of research on raising the minimum wage though nothing in this short of a period of time so I will withhold judgement until the study is properly vetted.

Agreed. I can see that point of view.

[Shadowmelded]

Strange...

[WoWGoneBad]

You think public education is of equal quality throughout the country? Shit, even throughout particular cities? How one performs in school is also directly correlated to their living environment and upbringing. Some people will be stuck doing those burger flipping jobs. It's still a job. Why do you think they don't deserve a livable wage? There's literally not enough of those types of jobs, you deem worthy of a living wage, to go around.

Seriously, you actually think every poor person is poor simply because of bad choices? Has nothing to do with anything else at all? You're so far detached from reality that you're not even worth having a conversation with.

Tell that to the inner city kids who got offers from IVY league colleges. While a small drop in a bucket, and while I agree not all public schools are student oriented, it is also up to the STUDENT to decide what level of education they want and go achive it. If they are not getting it from school, go to the internet. Read books, find those of like minds, there plenty of ways to learn more than what you are getting from school but YOU have to be willing to put in that effort. The onus is on BOTH the school and the student