Eye of the Twisting nether question...

[Raiz]

So... I'm currently using this build and I have Elmalon's charged core as my 2nd legendary.
I wanted to know if you ever use hailstorm since it gives one more 1.5% buff ?
If not, what about the talent ? I guess you take it only for pure ST AND you got Akainu ?

I don't use simcraft because frankly I've never needed it and wanted to have a general opinion.

I'm asking that because the rotation feels kind of cluncky with 3/4 spells I have to use before using Stormstrike (Landslide, Flametongue, ES, and eventually CL since I have 2 set (I still used it even when I didn't have 2 set)).
If I had to use Hailstorm on top of it, I'd feel a little bad because it's a lot of GCD to cast before using Stormstrike...

[Amunete]

I don't use simcraft because frankly I've never needed it

No one is going to take you seriously if this is how you feel about your performance. Especially if youre going to ask a question about what is best to use for dps.

You should also have never used CL in single target before you had 2 piece, now you only use it once every 16 secs to maintain the crit bonus. use raidbots.com and see what talent builds sim best for your gear. thats the only answer that is going to lead you to do what is best.

If all you care about is whats fun to you, then do whatever feels good.

[Murderdoll]

>Asks gear and talent question.

>Says hes never needed Simcraft.

Well well well.

[Darleth]

So... I'm currently using this build and I have Elmalon's charged core as my 2nd legendary.
I wanted to know if you ever use hailstorm since it gives one more 1.5% buff ?
If not, what about the talent ? I guess you take it only for pure ST AND you got Akainu ?

I don't use simcraft because frankly I've never needed it and wanted to have a general opinion.

I'm asking that because the rotation feels kind of cluncky with 3/4 spells I have to use before using Stormstrike (Landslide, Flametongue, ES, and eventually CL since I have 2 set (I still used it even when I didn't have 2 set)).
If I had to use Hailstorm on top of it, I'd feel a little bad because it's a lot of GCD to cast before using Stormstrike...

Use Simcraft
If it feels clunky, change Earthen Spike to something else. You were also playing wrong, but what do I know.
And no, you dont use Hailstorm.

[Raiz]

You don't use CL ? What about the wolves trait ? I read it gives a dps bonus for ST.

Concerning simcraft, let's just say, I've been relying on my own experience on target dummies and skada/reccount/details. I can't help but think simcraft isn't "realistic" as it's simply a patchwerk fight with no movements and played perfectly by bots. You can't expect us to play as perfectly as them especially when there are like a lot of RNG procs, do you ? Unless there's something I'm missing.

Anyway, I wanted to know if you use hailstorm or not. For someone who never used raidbots or simcraft, I fear it'd take me a long time to analyze for something I could simply ask in a forum with more experienced players. I've been using this shaman for only a few days.

Edit : By popular demand, I've used raidbot. Where do you see which spells he casted ? I can't see if he used hailstorm (with or without talent)
Edit 2 : Alright got the html report. I don't see any hailstorm so I guess it doesn't use that. What's bugging me though is the Flametongue dps : Its damage exceeds my Lava Lash and Rockbiter. How is that possible ? I've seen a lot of logs with the same talents and the flametongue damage never exceeds Lava lash...

[Amunete]

Raiz, when you use raidbots, you have to input your character data. it runs the simulation based on what you input. you can connect raidbots to your armory, or, you can use simulationcraft addon, type /simc in game, and copy the text it prompts you with. you then paste it in the box for simulation craft 'code'. Then it will run a sim based on YOUR GEAR, YOUR TALENTS, and YOUR ARTIFACT.

You can change your talents, get a new SIMC string, and run it again to see what is best for you.

Also, visit the class discords for enhance: discord.gg/0VcupJEQX0HuE5HH, go to the enhance section and READ THE PINS
Ask questions if you have them. the community is very helpful. it looks like you really do want to be a better enhance player, so you need to do the research accordingly.

[Raiz]

Surprisingly, there was nothing to change, not even on my DK where I had a lot of items in my bag (only relics, but it had to be expected with this new patch and the news buffs. But SimC does help to choose the relics and trinkets that's for sure).

Tbh, I don't understand the "rolleyes" towards my inexperience with sims. I've said it countless times on this forum, I'm more of a M+ player than a raider. You were right about not using CL before the set for ST.
Either way, my question wasn't about talent change or gear nor anything. I simply wanted to know if it was worth using hailstorm. That's why I asked a simple question. I don't know why you all brought this SimC debate.

Are you saying it's impossible to be one of the best without using SimC ? I'm sorry but I don't believe it.

Go ahead, downvote me all to hell for all I care.

Anyway, thanks for your answers.

Peace.

[Deleted]

Either way, my question wasn't about talent change or gear nor anything. I simply wanted to know if it was worth using hailstorm. That's why I asked a simple question. I don't know why you all brought this SimC debate.

Are you saying it's impossible to be one of the best without using SimC ? I'm sorry but I don't believe it.

The best answer you're going to get is "sim it". Why? Because a lot of thoughtful people have created a program that effectively answers everyone's questions without the drawback of speculation. Plug it in and boom you're done.

You will get clear as day, plain english answers with simc.

[Niwes]

mmoc became horrible. not a single person here is able to just answer a really simple question.

the guy asked if and when it is worth to use hailstorm. is it that hard to just answer such a fukin easy question ? cheesus.

ofc he have to sim. it seems he get that (for his first part of question). no need to reply "sim it idiot" five times. and when you stretch your fingers to type something into a forum nobody sane person cares WHY op is asking, or dont sim, or do this or do that. it doesnt matter! just answer his fukin question or shut the fuck up. for real, i literally HATE ppl going to critize someones motives instead answering his fukin question. maaan...

at topic:

i dont have that much deeper exp in enh shaman. maybe someone with more exp here could help you. oh wait, they are to douchebag to do this. so, what i assume/believe is this:

- you never ever take hailstorm without aikanus.
- if you have aikanus, hailstorm is a slight, but not that great, single target dps increase.
- aikanu/hailstorm is only a dps increase for single target type fights. never use it for aoe fights.
- if you take hailstorm as talent, you always take hothand talent too.

if i forget something or something isnt correct, maybe ppl correct me instead of tell me to sim it...

ps:

and no, you definetelly dont have to sim that, because the dps differences are large enough to get an overall rule of thumb, regardless how much haste, mastery, etc. you have. in ST aikanus/hailstorm/hothand will always better or not as Legendary xyz, regardless if you have 28% haste and 61% mastery or 31% haste and 57% mastery, etc. and cause of this there is NO reason why just not answer his question. and even if not, then the dps diff is that small that you can still answer with "it dosnt really matter". the only reason for that shit texts is: ppl dont know it. and when you dont know it just write nothing instead that BS.

besides that, not all ppl play mythic on the 1% edge. the op could be an average guy playing just HC and want to know whats the best he could do with his stuff, without mathematical correctnes of 0,0001% or playing on the myth egde. if the diffs are that small, only a top myth raider care, tell him "dont matter". if not, tell him whats better. its not that complicated. damn it.

[Darleth]

mmoc became horrible. not a single person here is able to just answer a really simple question.

the guy asked if and when it is worth to use hailstorm. is it that hard to just answer such a fukin easy question ? cheesus.

He could've... you know... looked at icy veins and probably even the wowhead guide made by Wordup where this gets answered pretty quickly. Its a difference asking a question that hasn't been answered a bazillion times already, which is why he gets the response he's getting. Considering this:

I don't use simcraft because frankly I've never needed it and wanted to have a general opinion.

This is literally him saying "I'm too lazy to use stuff to improve my gameplay and I want people to do everything else for me". I may sound like an asshole when I say this, but no, most people who state this are usually exactly those kind of lazy people.

To answer his question: Hailstorm is only used with Akainus AND Twisting Nether.

[Raiz]

This is literally him saying "I'm too lazy to use stuff to improve my gameplay and I want people to do everything else for me". I may sound like an asshole when I say this, but no, most people who state this are usually exactly those kind of lazy people.

It never once occured to you that if I never used Simc in the first place it's simply because I'm confident enough with my experience ?

Maybe I should've never brought SimC in this thread. But I did. I then used it since all you can say was this and read icy veins (funnily enough, I did try to contribute to this site long ago, I don't read it anymore because I prefer to rely on my own experience. This site is good to have a basic understanding of the spec).

All I wanted to ask was this simple question. I wanted to talk about its usefulness, a brainstorm if you will (not sure of its spelling) amongst forums readers. I don't have time to be on discord and find this specific answer, and I don't have time to test it on a dummy. I have a lot of alts, and I'm trying my best to be as knowledgeable as I can. So I'm really sorry if this question feels idiotic. But I forbid you to tell me I'm lazy. I'll try to be on discord. It's just that, 90% of what we're reading is boring stuff.

Anyway thanks for your response. Only use Hailstorm when you have akainu and EotN. Got it.

[micgre8162]

mmoc became horrible. not a single person here is able to just answer a really simple question.

the guy asked if and when it is worth to use hailstorm. is it that hard to just answer such a fukin easy question ? cheesus.

ofc he have to sim. it seems he get that (for his first part of question). no need to reply "sim it idiot" five times. and when you stretch your fingers to type something into a forum nobody sane person cares WHY op is asking, or dont sim, or do this or do that. it doesnt matter! just answer his fukin question or shut the fuck up. for real, i literally HATE ppl going to critize someones motives instead answering his fukin question. maaan...

at topic:

i dont have that much deeper exp in enh shaman. maybe someone with more exp here could help you. oh wait, they are to douchebag to do this. so, what i assume/believe is this:

- you never ever take hailstorm without aikanus.
- if you have aikanus, hailstorm is a slight, but not that great, single target dps increase.
- aikanu/hailstorm is only a dps increase for single target type fights. never use it for aoe fights.
- if you take hailstorm as talent, you always take hothand talent too.

if i forget something or something isnt correct, maybe ppl correct me instead of tell me to sim it...

ps:

and no, you definetelly dont have to sim that, because the dps differences are large enough to get an overall rule of thumb, regardless how much haste, mastery, etc. you have. in ST aikanus/hailstorm/hothand will always better or not as Legendary xyz, regardless if you have 28% haste and 61% mastery or 31% haste and 57% mastery, etc. and cause of this there is NO reason why just not answer his question. and even if not, then the dps diff is that small that you can still answer with "it dosnt really matter". the only reason for that shit texts is: ppl dont know it. and when you dont know it just write nothing instead that BS.

besides that, not all ppl play mythic on the 1% edge. the op could be an average guy playing just HC and want to know whats the best he could do with his stuff, without mathematical correctnes of 0,0001% or playing on the myth egde. if the diffs are that small, only a top myth raider care, tell him "dont matter". if not, tell him whats better. its not that complicated. damn it.

The Icy-Veins Enhancement section addresses this very specific issue. It also lists a couple of other legendary combinations which affect our rotation. I already have the EOTN, so I'm hoping for Aikanu's for my next leggo; however, I already know that I'll get another BS utility leggo because reasons. RNG can eat a bag of dicks.

[Niwes]

He could've... you know... looked at icy veins and probably even the wowhead guide made by Wordup where this gets answered pretty quickly. Its a difference asking a question that hasn't been answered a bazillion times already, which is why he gets the response he's getting. Considering this:



This is literally him saying "I'm too lazy to use stuff to improve my gameplay and I want people to do everything else for me". I may sound like an asshole when I say this, but no, most people who state this are usually exactly those kind of lazy people.

To answer his question: Hailstorm is only used with Akainus AND Twisting Nether.

your first part: i agree a little bit. i see where you comin from and i also dont like that mentality. on the other side the op dont feel THAT lazy to me and when you look at icy veins it is not that easy to answer that question with just a quick view.

this leads us to your second part: nowhere at icy veins this is clearly stated. it seems like aaikanus is also good enough without twisting nether. where do you get your info of "only both"? i am personally same unsure here as maybe op was. so i still feel its legit what op asked here.

- - - Updated - - -

The Icy-Veins Enhancement section addresses this very specific issue. It also lists a couple of other legendary combinations which affect our rotation. I already have the EOTN, so I'm hoping for Aikanu's for my next leggo; however, I already know that I'll get another BS utility leggo because reasons. RNG can eat a bag of dicks.

nowhere in wordups icy veins legendaries part it is stated that aikanus is ONLY worth TOGETHER with eye of twisting nether ??? where do ppl read this out there ?

quote:

Eye of the Twisting Nether Icon Eye of the Twisting Nether causes Fire, Nature and Frost damage dealt to each apply a separate 1.5% damage increase, with separate applications for a total of 4.5%. With 7.2 re-introducing Hailstorm Icon Hailstorm to the talent pool if you are using Akainu's Absolute Justice Icon Akainu's Absolute Justice, this goes from solid to very strong as you can now effectively trigger all 3 buffs without any loss. Even without considering Akainu's however, this is a great catch all choice and is almost always a solid equip.

...

Akainu's Absolute Justice Icon Akainu's Absolute Justice increases Lava Lash Icon Lava Lash damage by 50% when Flametongue Icon Flametongue and Frostbrand Icon Frostbrand are both active. With this receiving a buff in 7.2, this is now a strong choice and necessitates using Hailstorm Icon Hailstorm alongside it, pairing very well with Eye of the Twisting Nether Icon Eye of the Twisting Nether because of this. When using this legendary, you should be switching to Hot Hand Icon Hot Hand and Hailstorm Icon Hailstorm in single target situations, and is a very competitive option in those fight archetypes.

- - - Updated - - -

my oppinion havent changed. it is definetelly not clear and easy to get the info, how you go when having aikanus. i play enh shaman in HC, and even i am unsure. i totally understand why op asking here. if i was not too lazy maybe i would had done the same his question still is legit. at least for me.

[micgre8162]

Niwes, if you look at the write up in section 3.4 Recommended Choices under the subsection Combinations, you'll read the section to which I refer. Wordup simply states a couple of legendary combinations and makes note of how they interact with the rotation. That's all. Nothing more was said or implied.

[Trollfat]

How DARE you ask a question about enhancement on the shaman forum. Lol. Might as well remove all class forums and replace with a how to use simcraft guide.

BTW, I've personally found simcraft to be innacurate when compared to my actual in game testing. SimC runs a single target patchwerk test with 100% uptime on the target and that is just not reflective at all of actual gameplay.

[Jotaux]

BTW, I've personally found simcraft to be innacurate when compared to my actual in game testing. SimC runs a single target patchwerk test with 100% uptime on the target and that is just not reflective at all of actual gameplay.

It's almost like you can choose the fight type in simcraft.