yet even more tuning for Aff on Jun 27th

[Lulbalance]

Hybrids were a thing of vanilla and maybe little bit of tbc. Now if a spec is called "dps" spec, then it's supposed to be equal to every other dps spec. Class no longer matters.

Says who? You? Look, you can play a dps spec of your multi-role class if you like but if you have the top healing spec in the game and want your dps to be the top as well.. don't expect that sentiment to be shared by us.

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Ummm no that was also WotLK and Cata. It had NOTHING to do with spec and everything to do with the fact that you have a healing and tank spec to use whereas pures did not. Pure dps specs should always be ahead.

Agreed. That's 2 people with balance in their names saying the same thing, how can you argue with that?

[Jaman]

Ummm no that was also WotLK and Cata. It had NOTHING to do with spec and everything to do with the fact that you have a healing and tank spec to use whereas pures did not. Pure dps specs should always be ahead.

You are correct in that in the past that was an intentional design goal. However, believe Blizzard has said the 'hybrid tax' no longer applies.

[purebalance]

You are correct in that in the past that was an intentional design goal. However, believe Blizzard has said the 'hybrid tax' no longer applies.

show me where that was stated. If anything during WoD there was slight intonation it was never gone. All people took to mean that it was gone was that the blue sticky that said it was gone when they redid the forums.

If my "bonus" akin to you having a tank spec and healing spec is that I have 2 dps specs as a pure dps class, all 3 of those dps specs better be on par or better than your dps spec.

[Deleted]

There is no denying the advantage of hybrids. Probably one of the reasons why every single new class that was established is exactly that. While I personally don't agree with it, Blizzard has indeed taken the stand that there no hybrid tax any more (since Cata or even Wotlk, cant remember exactly).

On the topic of balancing: Since most hybrids only have 1 dps spec, that also makes balancing much more tricky. While Blizz can get 2 out of 3 specs of a pure dps wrong and still have the class viable (see NH where basically destro was gutted and demo was lower middle of the pack), if they get the 1 dps spec of a hybrid wrong, they are rather f&*$ed for the rest of the tier.

[gushDH]

Says who? You? Look, you can play a dps spec of your multi-role class if you like but if you have the top healing spec in the game and want your dps to be the top as well.. don't expect that sentiment to be shared by us.

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Agreed. That's 2 people with balance in their names saying the same thing, how can you argue with that?

So if someone likes elemental shaman only and hates the other 2 specs, they are doomed to perform worse just because shaman happens to have a healing spec too? How is that ok in your eyes mate?

[Deleted]

So if someone likes elemental shaman only and hates the other 2 specs, they are doomed to perform worse just because shaman happens to have a healing spec too? How is that ok in your eyes mate?

Well, how was it OK in YOUR eyes if someone playing a shaman was the best heal, the best melee and the best caster in game? Individually, they would be OK because there are always those that ONLY want to do one of them, but then you create a class that is just OP overall.

[Jaman]

show me where that was stated. If anything during WoD there was slight intonation it was never gone. All people took to mean that it was gone was that the blue sticky that said it was gone when they redid the forums.

https://twitter.com/Celestalon/statu...41585876959232

Hybrids and pures will do the same damage, and bring the same utility. That's the goal for Warlords.

[n0n3]

Hybrids were a thing of vanilla and maybe little bit of tbc. Now if a spec is called "dps" spec, then it's supposed to be equal to every other dps spec. Class no longer matters.

Going by this logic, all classes should have a tank, heal and dps spec to make it fair for everyone.

[Reith]

Pally healers are @ #1 and #5, i don't see any lock heals on that healer page - equally ridiculous to say. Hard to have sympathy for hybrids who have the strongest class in a different role but try to square peg themselves into dps and expect to top pures on the regular. XXXD

The point isn't that rets shouldn't do respectable dps, if your other specs were garbage I would throw up a flag right beside you. However, for a class with 3 dps specs, having one person in the top 10 doesn't seem crazy to me. Not a metric I would use for success, but since we're commenting on it...

Hybrid tax doesn't exist anymore. This isn't 2006. Healers are an entirely different role. That'd be like me telling you to play a different character. Switching DPS specs is nothing like switching roles.

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The fact that people are crying about their dps on the bottom means this is a sad day as well. I remember times when all 3 lock specs were like 25% behind almost everyone. That is a pretty damn balanced ranking even with affliction being ahead.

Some warlocks were crying about their damage in 7.2.5 BEFORE THE NERFS LOL. "ohh god we're only solidly middle of the pack in these 2 fights at the lowest"

[Deleted]

Bad joke
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/rankings/13#boss=2032

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/rankings/13#boss=2048

Arf. What do we do now ???

[Deleted]

The problem isn't warlock damage in general. The problem is multi-dotting. Multi-dotting is broken and dealing huge damage for almost no work which gives warlock and shadow priests and advantage on a few bosses (where it only really makes a difference during the encounter in one of them, and the two others are almost strictly padding/shard generation purposes).

Instead of making this nerf that also makes affliction warlocks worse on ST/priority target damage, where they were good but not the best, (while still having the disadvantage whenever they have to target swap) they should fix multi-dotting. Create a scale; that if we say single target is base 100, then on 2 targets dots deal 95% damage on both target, on 3 target 90% and so on (the numbers are only an example, it should of course make sense in the end), to reduce the damage output of multi-dotting and keep the shard generation benefit.

I am sure others can come up with other, possibly better, ideas for fixing multi-dotting, but that should be the focus - not nerfing affliction on single target aswell.

[Demonidze]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/rankings/13#boss=2048

Arf. What do we do now ???

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/ranking...1&difficulty=4

i'd say buff affli.

[Darsey]

The problem isn't warlock damage in general. The problem is multi-dotting. Multi-dotting is broken and dealing huge damage for almost no work which gives warlock and shadow priests and advantage on a few bosses (where it only really makes a difference during the encounter in one of them, and the two others are almost strictly padding/shard generation purposes).

Instead of making this nerf that also makes affliction warlocks worse on ST/priority target damage, where they were good but not the best, (while still having the disadvantage whenever they have to target swap) they should fix multi-dotting. Create a scale; that if we say single target is base 100, then on 2 targets dots deal 95% damage on both target, on 3 target 90% and so on (the numbers are only an example, it should of course make sense in the end), to reduce the damage output of multi-dotting and keep the shard generation benefit.

I am sure others can come up with other, possibly better, ideas for fixing multi-dotting, but that should be the focus - not nerfing affliction on single target aswell.

That, or make a talent that makes the dots deal more damage to a single target, had they only tought about it!

[Hctaz]

Pally healers are @ #1 and #5, i don't see any lock heals on that healer page - equally ridiculous to say. Hard to have sympathy for hybrids who have the strongest class in a different role but try to square peg themselves into dps and expect to top pures on the regular. XXXD

The point isn't that rets shouldn't do respectable dps, if your other specs were garbage I would throw up a flag right beside you. However, for a class with 3 dps specs, having one person in the top 10 doesn't seem crazy to me. Not a metric I would use for success, but since we're commenting on it...

Where is the garbage about rets coming from? Personally I actually think the lock nerf was fine, I've been saying as much for days - I think my exact words were '3-5% and we'll still be fine'.. but comparing warlocks to ret palas, hello?

Because the hybrid tax isn't a thing anymore so stop talking about it like that's fair? It doesn't matter if Holy paladins are the best healers, a dps player is not going to reroll healing spec and a guild is not going to allow them to randomly displace one of their healers out of nowhere. They're going to have to reroll entirely and they have no alternative choices. Frost dks at least have the option to go unholy if they don't like being at the bottom but the same shit goes for windwalker monks and havoc DHs: they have no choice. At least those last two actually got buffed.

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If my "bonus" akin to you having a tank spec and healing spec is that I have 2 dps specs as a pure dps class, all 3 of those dps specs better be on par or better than your dps spec.

No and that's an awful way of thinking lol. Dps specs should and will be balanced in a vacuum to each other. It doesn't matter if there is a tanking or healing spec because those are tanking and healing specs. They do nothing for the dps specs of the game and are not factored in at all. You're complaining about our "bonus" and "flexibility" but actually a pure dps class is the most flexible thing in a raid. Sure, maybe you need one dps to go healer or one dps to go tank but warlocks, mages, hunters... they can all swap dps specs depending on the fight and never have to worry about being bottom of the meters because they got shafted on boss mechanics. Ret can be better than the entire warlock class overall and it would be fine as long as all of the dps were within a range of each other.

If you want proof of my claims just look at balance druids and shadow priests. They're better than the entire mage class and those are some hybrid-y motherfuckers right there. Unholy dk is better than the entire mage class as well and we have a tanking option.

Your thinking belongs in the past where it can fester and die.

[Fennixx]

Because the hybrid tax isn't a thing anymore so stop talking about it like that's fair? It doesn't matter if Holy paladins are the best healers, a dps player is not going to reroll healing spec and a guild is not going to allow them to randomly displace one of their healers out of nowhere. They're going to have to reroll entirely and they have no alternative choices. Frost dks at least have the option to go unholy if they don't like being at the bottom but the same shit goes for windwalker monks and havoc DHs: they have no choice. At least those last two actually got buffed.

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No and that's an awful way of thinking lol. Dps specs should and will be balanced in a vacuum to each other. It doesn't matter if there is a tanking or healing spec because those are tanking and healing specs. They do nothing for the dps specs of the game and are not factored in at all. You're complaining about our "bonus" and "flexibility" but actually a pure dps class is the most flexible thing in a raid. Sure, maybe you need one dps to go healer or one dps to go tank but warlocks, mages, hunters... they can all swap dps specs depending on the fight and never have to worry about being bottom of the meters because they got shafted on boss mechanics. Ret can be better than the entire warlock class overall and it would be fine as long as all of the dps were within a range of each other.

If you want proof of my claims just look at balance druids and shadow priests. They're better than the entire mage class and those are some hybrid-y motherfuckers right there. Unholy dk is better than the entire mage class as well and we have a tanking option.

Your thinking belongs in the past where it can fester and die.

Yeah, because its Fair longer queues vs. Faster queues, role flexibility vs. One role Lock, one spec gearing (regular gear, legendaries and artifact) vs. Tri-spec gearing.

Yeah, its Fair to have a single hybrid spec do more damage than an entire class!!!

NO, its an anomaly.

[Turturin the Warlock]

Please stop the pure vs hybrid debate. It's boring and whatever their position no one's going to change their mind at this point.

[satori sartori]

affliction has been consistently OP this expac and is finally being brought down to everyone else's level

SO you didn't actually play this expac, good to know.

[Frozenbeef]

Should have been a 25% nerf...

TBH i really love the spec and i also love being a unique special snowflake so the less that play it the better :S

[satori sartori]

Should have been a 25% nerf...

TBH i really love the spec and i also love being a unique special snowflake so the less that play it the better :S

and people said eugenics was wrong

[Sheevah24]

affliction has been consistently OP this expac and is finally being brought down to everyone else's level

You are soooo wrong dude. Affliction has been good since ...around mid-January when Malefic Grasp was introduced and OP when they made every single add in nighthold to proc Souls/Wrath of Consumption which was sometime after .

But before that Affliction has been a joke. i won't forget the days when i would get kicked from M+ groups just because i was affliction or in raids get laughed at for the same reason.