the brainlessitude of "simyourself" answers

[ZAURON]

This forum has became useless, since most of interesting questions are brainlessly answered
SIMYOURSELF

now i want to share with you my opinion on the matter.
I'm an expert in simulation, not in WOW but in real life, i'm am mechanichal designer.
There are plenty of automated calculations tools to design almost everything, but i can assure you that if you base all your knowledge in simulation you will fail badly.
Understanding what happen beyond the simulation is far beyond better that the simulation itself.
simulation is a mere calculus that doesn' t take in account a lot of factor, in addiction the simulation gives you only the result for the "perfect " rotation but doesn't give you any information about the robustness of a certain build, in other words there maybe some setups that in theory may perform better but a little mistake down dramatically the performance, while a less "in theory " perfect build even with some mistakes have a more stable output.
I wonder if the most of "simyorself answerer" is aware of all the constraint made in the simulation.

simulation without brain is useless, this is true in WOW, as it's true in real life.
It can give you some hint, but understanding what happen beyond and why you have certain result is far better that brainlessly pushing a button.

that said , i hope that this forum can return a constructive place where to share opinions with fellows.

I think that if someone is asking for help, is better not to anser than reply "simyourself", try to be constructive, try to be friendly

We all know you're the badassthat down everything, and you're the best , try to give an help to some unfortunate fellow, instead of became
the brainelss badass that is able only to type "simyourself"

[Deleted]

Have you tried simming yourself tho

[roflwaffle]

9/10 time a question is answered with "sim yourself" it's because its the correct answer, and yes everyone understands that a sim is a perfect situation gauge of dps

[Deleted]

Sure thing. I'll make sure to ask the guy what his chances of fucking up a certain part of his rotation are. And then i'll take into account all the boss mechanics he will have to deal with and how those will impact his rotation. I'll also analyze his gear to make sure that he takes the best talents because they might be affected by his stats. I'll also consider the overall timing of the fight and how his rotation fits into that.

Sim yourself is the only answer to questions like "What stats should i get?" or "Is this relic an upgrade" etc. You can't account for everyone and how they play nor can you analyze something like DPS without using simcraft. If you don't like the answer, tough luck. There's no alternative outside of sims for a lot of questions.

[Nalorakk]

Because more often than not, it's the correct answer to these questions.

They're also questions and queries, not demands. If you can type a thread like this, you can sim yourself just as easy.

[Deleted]

Not sure if serious but just to prove you wrong - Gorefiend is a fight where your Patchwerk simulation won't matter a jack shit because adds were priority until nuke phase. Your rotation is not fully utilized until nuke phase...well, it's fully utilized without nuke phase because most of players choose to ignore the adds and go simulation craft on boss and hence wipes happens and hence that makes them wrong with "sim yourself".

Sim yourself basically means "check whats your best gear".

I mean if you ignore the whole thing where people don't usualy ask for advice on bosses but rather ask things like "Is this better for me? Should i go with this relic, or this relic? Do i drop 4p for new 2p?" you'd be sort of right.

But back to gorefiend, do you know what mattered on Gorefiend? Adds and then how much burst you can do in that 30s or however big that window was so you could do it with 2 burst phases or your healers would be oom. How do you know how much burst you can get in a 30s window? You sim it. If you want to blame sims because people can't hit adds go right ahead but don't expect people not to laugh.

[Deleted]

I think you did not read my post with clear head. I agree that for 30second window in nuke phase, yes you should sim it. Also, I am saying that sims won't help you when people are not hitting the adds and this is the factor you can't sim.

Of course sims won't help with people who can't do mechanics but that doesn't make sims(or "sim yourself") worth any less. When questions are asked about what gear/talents/relics/stats someone should get the correct answer is sim yourself.

[MiseryIndex]

Jesus fuck, what is what this onslaught of anti sim posts? People say sim yourself because they can't come play for you, and if your questions are merely "What is better for me?", the honest answer will always be, sim it. "Oh the fight isn't a patchwerk style fight". There are different fight options in Simcraft, try them. Obviously the sims don't account for every possible incident that could occur, but they provide you with information based on thousands of simulations. As opposed to, you know, feelycraft. When someone's asking for help, you can either pull answers out of your ass that might not apply at all to his gear, or you can tell him to sim himself and figure things out on his own. Simulations without a brain are useless? Well no shit, if you sim a patchwerk fight and try and apply the information from there to a helter skelter add fight, then the sim isn't wrong, you are.

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I think you did not read my post with clear head. I agree that for 30second window in nuke phase, yes you should sim it. Also, I am saying that sims won't help you when people are not hitting the adds and this is the factor you can't sim.

You can't sim people not following mechanics? Who woulda guessed that? I'll tell you what, next time someone asks a question about what to do when people don't execute a fight properly, I promise I won't mention sims at all.

[skitzin]

The biggest issue I have with "sim yourself" answers is when it comes to stat values. Seldom do people understand that these are a snap shot at that point in time, with that specific gear, with those particular talents, over that particular fight length, with perfect reaction times etc. Meaning that if anything slightly changes the values change. But that's not the pitfall. The pitfall is that those weights do not give players a trend. Take fury for example: vers, mastery and haste jump around each other in value. It's not uncommon to see someone with vers>haste/mastery stat weights. However we know from bigger simulations that stat priority is haste>mastery>vers. So long term players would do well to follow guides which often use the priorities developed by doing 10s to 100s of thousands of iterations.

[Deleted]

There are plenty of automated calculations tools to design almost everything, but i can assure you that if you base all your knowledge in simulation you will fail badly.
Understanding what happen beyond the simulation is far beyond better that the simulation itself.

If people are asking others to sim their stuff then they're already assuming they know their rotation and how to play their class.

The only time people are saying to sim are when people ask if X item is better than Y. The quickest, clearest answer you're going to get is from simming.

As for your statement about it only providing answers for a perfect rotation then you're wrong. There's settings in the SimC program that allow you to adjust for player skill, fight type and latency.

So far I've not seen anyone reply with "sim yourself" when people ask about rotation so you've created a strawman.

[Phaty]

The biggest issue I have with "sim yourself" answers is when it comes to stat values. Seldom do people understand that these are a snap shot at that point in time, with that specific gear, with those particular talents, over that particular fight length, with perfect reaction times etc. Meaning that if anything slightly changes the values change. But that's not the pitfall. The pitfall is that those weights do not give players a trend. Take fury for example: vers, mastery and haste jump around each other in value. It's not uncommon to see someone with vers>haste/mastery stat weights. However we know from bigger simulations that stat priority is haste>mastery>vers. So long term players would do well to follow guides which often use the priorities developed by doing 10s to 100s of thousands of iterations.

At certain ilvls and certain gear, stat weighs change. Enhance is normally agi>haste=mast>crit=vers. With my hear and the stats on them I am haste>agi>vers>mast=crit. Once I get more ToS gear and swap legendaries atound it will change again. That's why simming with different gear is the best option instead of waiting for a raid or m+ to test.

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Also, Ppl come on here asking for advise to get better, then get upset when they are told to sim. How do you think the best players perform so well? The sim countless gear setups specific to their toon and perform mechanics.

[Varlak]

Not everyone on these forums is a mechanical designer. Simming yourself is and easy way of most likely finding the best answer to any question you have (in regards to gear/talents/numbers). Besides this is a forum and not an active chat room, if you want more discussions go onto the class discords.

For boss fight it is, for mythic + sims is often useless since its more of a succession of burst fight with some have CD ups and others don't. Thats the one time I get sick when I see poeple replying @Sim it yourself@. Otherwise its mostly accurate. That or noobs will tell you the stats weight for a 4 pieces T20 with best lego wich is probably not the right awnser anyway.

[Reigh]

Here's the deal. Specifically for enhance, there are 2 (TWO) objectively bad talents. If you throw darts at your talent page and don't hit Lightning Shield or Boulder fist, you're going to be doing ~90% of optimal dps. What is optimal is 100% dependent on your gear. And guess what? we also have ~8 good legendaries. The effectiveness of those also depends on your gear. We can answer what situations some legendaries are good in, but when we have multiple that are good in single target, if you're not going to sim yourself for a correct answer, then what's even the point in asking? Ele may be a different story to some extent, but the fact of the matter is that things are close. Saying "sims yourself" is not a lazy answer. Giving you some cookie cutter answer that may be WRONG for you is lazy. The way this expac is turning out, if you don't want to sim yourself (especially with a tool as easy as raidbots), then just don't ask what to use.

[epLe]

Theory (SimYourself) and practice (PlayYourself) is often very different.

People who answer "SimYourself" do it because they want to look intelligent, while hiding the practical issue of beeing unable to answer a simple question.

Top end raiders managed for expansions without sims, and they still do.

[Deleted]

People who answer "SimYourself" do it because they want to look intelligent, while hiding the practical issue of beeing unable to answer a simple question..

It's because the simple answer to your simple question IS "sim it".

Hypothetical scenario: I ask you to tell me what is the better talent choice to pick out of Ascendance/Boulderfist/Earthen Spike is.

Can you tell me the answer quicker and more consisely than SimC?
Does your answer tell me the actual % differences in dps it would make so I can make an educated decision as to whether I can sacrifice optimal DPS for playstyle depending on what level I play at?
Does your answer take into account my skill level, latency and fight type, all things that SimC can be customised to take into account?
What about my gear and stat weights. Can you give me accurate representations of what I should be statting for like SimC does?
What about misinformation? If I go asking on a forum for advice and someone feeds me BS I'm left with conflicting opinions. It's not like SimC has bad code that argues with itself and gives me unclear answers.

Yes, you should practice your spec and no not all answers can be conjured up by SimC, but most answers can indeed be answered that way and to be so puritan about it is just pathetic.

Tbh from where I'm standing with an OP and a thread title that calls people "brainless" for answering to use SimC, I'd say it's the opposite side that wants to look intelligent.

Top end raiders managed for expansions without sims, and they still do.

[Citation Needed]

[Orangetai420]

If you can type a thread like this, you can sim yourself just as easy.

Even easier, if you (OP) had just simmed yourself you would be done quicker than the time taken to write this thread.

[MakeMeLaugh]

I think this gif sums it up perfectly.

https://i.imgur.com/DdMAVrY.gifv

[Jotaux]

Or you can just say "Sim yourself but don't forget to follow the tactics". Both is important, not just one or either.

Simming yourself or not simming yourself won't make a difference to other people following mechanics and your situation is completely out of the scope of the answer "Sim yourself." It's like saying "you can try to follow mechanics but if you dc you will fail." Its completely meaningless to the discussion, so much so I'm just going to assume you are arguing for arguments sake.

[Radaney]

Or just look what the best players are doing because they can usually actually sim themselves properly, and regularly do in PTR.

[Barky]

Replying 'sim yourself' isn't brainless.

Asking for someone else to do all the work for you and give your best gear / stat weights is brainless. Which is what happens most of the time. People who can't be bothered doing the leg work.

raidbots.com can literally do 95% the work for you so you don't even have to do anything except type /simc in game and clicking some buttons.

It gives about 30k+ scenarios of perfect environment, perfect sgt boss to just hit everything and gives you your dps with a margain of procs and errors etc.

Yes naturally you can't hit that number a lot of the time because of boss mechanics or whatever, but it's still useful in seeing what piece of gear is a legitimate upgrade etc.

Simming yourself is very useful.