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  1. #221
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucrece View Post
    Demo is mediocre ST even when it gets to stand still all fight.
    No its not, the spec might get fucked by movement and be annoying to play with the pet haste spell and all those problems but its top tier ST if you get to tunnel, plenty of people have done amazing parses already that compete with warriors and rogues.

  2. #222
    Quote Originally Posted by Nebiroth99 View Post
    Shadow Priests are doing perfectly well, in the fights where afflictin is strong SP's are doing extremely well also. SP dots are actually better than ours and easier to maintain on multiple targets, so long as they are reasonably close to each other.

    They got a talent that lets them apply both dots with one cast, and voidbolt extends them by 3 seconds on allthe targets they are running on. We have to do that manually, and there's a big penalty for letting Agony drop.
    Shadow Priests are good at their niche. Affliction is better overall. That's not even considering you can just switch specs for single target, either.

  3. #223
    Quote Originally Posted by Nebiroth99 View Post
    Shadow Priests are doing perfectly well, in the fights where afflictin is strong SP's are doing extremely well also. SP dots are actually better than ours and easier to maintain on multiple targets, so long as they are reasonably close to each other.

    They got a talent that lets them apply both dots with one cast, and voidbolt extends them by 3 seconds on allthe targets they are running on. We have to do that manually, and there's a big penalty for letting Agony drop.
    You really don't take misery for raids, it takes shadow's single target from low tier to dumpster tier, and while you may have to reapply dots manually we have our void form to keep up which is far more punishing to drop out of early than letting agony drop off.

    Don't get me wrong, shadow is in a pretty good spot, it's just warlocks are in a better spot due to better damage, better survivability and less punished by mechanics.
    Last edited by Fleckens; 2017-06-28 at 12:47 AM.

  4. #224
    Only Soul Flame got nerfed by 50%
    Please source this? Because the official patch notes at https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/ne...-5-patch-notes say 20%.

  5. #225
    Aaand completely gutted in pvp compared to huge outliers of rshams/awars/sub rogues/enh shamans. What the point of 24 sec corruption if we don't have AA now?

  6. #226
    Quote Originally Posted by Sunlighthell View Post
    Aaand completely gutted in pvp compared to huge outliers of rshams/awars/sub rogues/enh shamans. What the point of 24 sec corruption if we don't have AA now?
    I find every nerf there retarded @afflic.
    Every. Single. One.


    EDIT: even one of the buffs, LOL
    A drainlife buff, in pvp HAHAHHAHA
    Thanks for the heads up!

  7. #227
    Bloodsail Admiral Moggie's Avatar
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    Methinks y'all are reading too much into a 5% nerf. It isn't that noticeable. tbh.

  8. #228
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Harsesis View Post
    Please source this? Because the official patch notes at https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/ne...-5-patch-notes say 20%.
    Sorry, I was thinking about Wrath of Consumption. Whatever, the notes are out of date, the 20% buff turne dinto a 15% one. Or 10% for agony and corruption.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sunlighthell View Post
    Aaand completely gutted in pvp compared to huge outliers of rshams/awars/sub rogues/enh shamans. What the point of 24 sec corruption if we don't have AA now?
    "Affliction must be all about the dots. Except PVP, of course"

    It's obvious why they're doing this. They do not want and have never wanted, ever, dot classes to be able to dump a bunch of dots on someone and have them die from them.

    They want PVP damage to be active damage, i.e. if you kill someone in PVP you have do do it mostly pro-actively, to actually be casting something at them. They don't want a player to die in PVP because an afflock drops Agony, Corruption and Siphon Life on someone and then sits back and watches the victim die with no further action required (of course, this presumes total imcompetence on the part of the victim, like, they stand and let themselves get dotted up and do nothing to mitigate after)

    So they've removed the damage from the instant cast fire and forget dots, and baked it into stuff with cast and channel times.

    Oh, and they favour melee classes for PVP and have done for years.

    Just be thankful PVE and PVP are now effectively separated, because otherwise we'd have got a mix of the changes and aff would be gutted for both.

  9. #229
    Quote Originally Posted by Fleckens View Post
    You really don't take misery for raids, it takes shadow's single target from low tier to dumpster tier, and while you may have to reapply dots manually we have our void form to keep up which is far more punishing to drop out of early than letting agony drop off.

    Don't get me wrong, shadow is in a pretty good spot, it's just warlocks are in a better spot due to better damage, better survivability and less punished by mechanics.
    Did you just really say warlocks have better survival than shadow? lol

  10. #230
    Quote Originally Posted by Nebiroth99 View Post
    Sorry, I was thinking about Wrath of Consumption. Whatever, the notes are out of date, the 20% buff turne dinto a 15% one. Or 10% for agony and corruption.

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    "Affliction must be all about the dots. Except PVP, of course"

    It's obvious why they're doing this. They do not want and have never wanted, ever, dot classes to be able to dump a bunch of dots on someone and have them die from them.

    They want PVP damage to be active damage, i.e. if you kill someone in PVP you have do do it mostly pro-actively, to actually be casting something at them. They don't want a player to die in PVP because an afflock drops Agony, Corruption and Siphon Life on someone and then sits back and watches the victim die with no further action required (of course, this presumes total imcompetence on the part of the victim, like, they stand and let themselves get dotted up and do nothing to mitigate after)

    So they've removed the damage from the instant cast fire and forget dots, and baked it into stuff with cast and channel times.

    Oh, and they favour melee classes for PVP and have done for years.

    Just be thankful PVE and PVP are now effectively separated, because otherwise we'd have got a mix of the changes and aff would be gutted for both.
    BM hunters. Can Afk behind pillar when pets solo you. Meanwhile our spell lock nerfed so we need to be in low with pet to trigger it in rated arena.

  11. #231
    Warchief Lulbalance's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by purebalance View Post
    Did you just really say warlocks have better survival than shadow? lol
    aff locks for sure have better have survivability than spriests.. he's right.

  12. #232
    Quote Originally Posted by purebalance View Post
    Did you just really say warlocks have better survival than shadow? lol
    Well.. yeah? One of the things warlocks are very well known for is their survivability.

  13. #233
    Quote Originally Posted by Sunlighthell View Post
    Aaand completely gutted in pvp compared to huge outliers of rshams/awars/sub rogues/enh shamans. What the point of 24 sec corruption if we don't have AA now?
    I'm far saltier about the PVP changes than the PVE ones, though I'm only a random BG scrub. It was glorious while it lasted and the whole nightfall/sow the seeds at choke points is still gonna be chucklesome - losing duration on corruption isn't a biggie in that context. Depending on BG I might go back to a more single target/execute spec with the buffs to UA and drain soul

  14. #234
    Quote Originally Posted by Fleckens View Post
    Well.. yeah? One of the things warlocks are very well known for is their survivability.
    Maybe in BC, but since then not even remotely. Shadow has way more survivability. I would say only balance and elemental are the only ones with less survivability than a warlock now while the others have way more. Granted this is mostly from the PVP side where PVE it varies but is still similar.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lulbalance View Post
    aff locks for sure have better have survivability than spriests.. he's right.
    Except they don't...... especially when their self healing which is the only thing that might make them have more than shadow is from an easily interruptible channel.

  15. #235
    Quote Originally Posted by purebalance View Post
    Maybe in BC, but since then not even remotely. Shadow has way more survivability. I would say only balance and elemental are the only ones with less survivability than a warlock now while the others have way more. Granted this is mostly from the PVP side where PVE it varies but is still similar.

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    Except they don't...... especially when their self healing which is the only thing that might make them have more than shadow is from an easily interruptible channel.
    You should probably specify your talking about pvp when you come into a thread about pve tuning, shadow has 4% max health shield/vt healing(which is less now due to different talent and no mastery gearing), pws for around 8% of our health a few times before oom and dispersion which more often than not we have to use offensively to not drop our void form when targeted by mechanics.

    Although honestly even if we are talking pvp shadow is worse after all the recent nerfs to it's self healing, before I could probably agree there but definitely not anymore.

  16. #236
    Quote Originally Posted by purebalance View Post
    Did you just really say warlocks have better survival than shadow? lol
    Locks have more sustainability, but disperion takes the crown when it comes to survival in a mythic setting, and it can be used to soak massive damage mechanics that would otherwise kill a lock with any CD.

  17. #237
    Deleted
    People mistake self-healing for survivability.

    Affliction's defensive is a 40% reduction on a long cooldown. True, we can take a passive shield but have to sacrifice it for a speed boost (and a speed boost that kills us quite quickly as well)

    What affliction has is a lot of self-healing. Self healing is not as useful as it appears when dealing with many mechanics. Self-healing is no use whatever on any ability that exceeds your basic health pool, because you cannot self-heal death.

    Affliction has fair survivability, but it's main strength in that are ais lightening the load of healers, particularly in any boss that features a phase of sustained, fairly low damage like a ticking dot. An afflock can usually outheal that unaided. Moreover, a lot of that self-heal is justified by Lifetap.

    I'm not saying that locks are not tough - we are, we've got a big health pool for a clothie and in the cas eof affliction a LOT of self-heals. But for - say - the big pools on Kiljaeden you would not tell an afflock to soak. A so-called "fragile" mage can soak those with Iceblock.

    So locks are better at surviving relatively low-level but sustained damage, shadow priests (and mages) are better at surviving sudden, massive bursts of damage, particularly if it;s predictable.

  18. #238
    Yeah you have self healing similar to shadow, you have a slightly worse defensive but you can save it for when you need it rather than as part of your dps rotation and you have demon skin which is a super version of our shield as it's 5 times as strong.

    Mage survivability is sweet though, no doubt about that, it's crazy how easy it is to stay alive on my mage alt due to it's defensive cooldowns and mobility.

  19. #239
    Deleted
    So, overall, rankings haven't really changed much despite the additional 5% nerf to corr/ago. As predicted, it wasn't really a "You need a nerf" but more of a "People are freaking out so we have to do something".

  20. #240
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by purebalance View Post
    Did you just really say warlocks have better survival than shadow? lol
    You beat me to it. As a destro lock i have one active damage mitigation spell and a pretty terrible baseline talent..

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