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  1. #601
    hoo look!!! another thread talking about LFR delay...

    who fucking care, deal with it

  2. #602
    Quote Originally Posted by Sansnom View Post
    Besides, you are talking about a different to one I original ask. Since you are unwillingly to return to the original topic, then lets just end this here.
    Your original post that I quoted was:
    "Something special. Kind of odd that during Normal/Heroic only raids of the past, hardly anyone complaint about people seeing the whole raid in Normal during the first week. People had to clear Normal to unlocking Heroic.

    Yet, as soon as LFR was available, suddenly more people complained about being to see the entire raid in the first week.

    So this becomes a problem. So why was it not a major problem in the past? Maybe because people don't want "LFR-Heroes" to clear the raid in the first week but okay for "Normal-Heroes" to clear it?"

    And I feel I answered that sufficiently. Just because you don't like the answer doesn't mean it's not an answer to what you asked.

    I feel like it's pretty obvious people do the whole, sub for new content, and then unsub when they've seen it thing. IDK if you play on like a massive server or something where it's always busy 24/7, but on a lower pop server when content is released suddenly there's a ton of players, and they slowly bleed away until the next content patch with a noticeable drop the week after the last boss in LFR is released.

  3. #603
    Quote Originally Posted by Jtbrig7390 View Post
    You are 100% correct.

    There is Zero logcial reasons to gate LFR anymore.
    well they are gating content in some ways, by making it difficult to organize or to clear, or by time gating it. They time-gated the Broken Shore, only logical they time-gate LFR. If they don't, LFR players are done in 3 hours. This is not even close to be what a guild or a pug do. If you are at your optimal raiding level, meaning most players normal, average to good players heroic, good to great players mythic, it should take you at least 3-4 weeks to clear your difficulty. Obviously this is not what LFR players want, they want to get hit by a wipe mechanic and stand in fire for the glory of satan, so difficulty has to be brought to a level where wiping is really hard, meaning a raid will be farmable on the first attempt, meaning you wouldn't get to experience the raid like Blizzard intended you to. It's either a time gate, or no LFR. I personally prefer the option to experience the content, even if I have to wait for it, than being left out.

  4. #604
    Quote Originally Posted by Better View Post
    Again, the reason there's a difference is that people that clear normal week one aren't "Done" with the raid. They will go back and progress through heroic/mythic. An LFR player (and MANY of them will even tell you this) sees killing the final boss in LFR as being done with the game for now, and often they unsub after they've killed it...

    There is no evidence that this happens to any degree of concern in any data that we have at our disposal. Seriously, no evidence whatsoever.

    This is theorized by some (because they want it to be true) but there is no actual evidence to support the theory.

  5. #605
    Quote Originally Posted by Wingspan View Post
    There is no evidence that this happens to any degree of concern in any data that we have at our disposal. Seriously, no evidence whatsoever.

    This is theorized by some (because they want it to be true) but there is no actual evidence to support the theory.
    You could say this about 99% of any community behavior in wow, we don't have the numbers, and will never get them. We do have people in just about every LFR thread that say they do this exact thing, but that's not evidence. We can visibly see the number of players hanging around in dal decrease, but that's not sufficient evidence.

    I think it's very safe to say, even without being able to prove it due to blizzard no longer posting sub counts, that when new content comes out, like a raid, sub numbers increase. This assumption rings true to how things worked historically when Blizz did post sub numbers. However assuming the trend as we last saw it remains true, wow is still losing subs every year. Unless you want to deny that these two are most likely true you can make a reasonable guess that a decent number of them are players who want to see the content(raid), and do so in a very casual manner that doesn't require effort to be put in on their part prior to the patch. Which mostly leaves LFR, and to a lesser degree Normal PuGs.

  6. #606
    Quote Originally Posted by Charge me Doctor View Post
    I do not know what metric you use to define LFR "success", i'm not here to say that LFR sucks or should be removed or vice versa, i say that people who complain about "lack of time to pug" are just bullshitting it doesn't take more time to find a pug group than to sit in a queue, it doesn't force you stay for all bosses, it doesn't take much dedication to fight normal bosses (sure, you can't just AFK through them like you can in LFR, but AFKing during a boss fight is not playing, isn't it?)

    Yes, i do not speak for everyone, but saying that normal mode 2-3 boss pug takes more time than sitting through queue into one wing of a raid is just disingenuous.
    I've done that and multiple people does that, it's not the case of "everyone", it's the case of "yes, you can pug 3 bosses and fuck off if you are limited in time"
    People dismiss it on whatever metric they want, which is what you are doing.
    It has been successful in numbers of players participating despite in WoD having a hugely nerfed loot.
    So it wasn't loot dictated.

    What "you" and what "other" people have done is as you say not speaking for everyone, but you keep deciding your experiences trump the knowledge other people have of theirs.
    No, it does not.
    LFR has been proven repeatedly to have a place,
    And that upsets you.

    Your "experience" is constantly being stretched to apply to people it simply does not apply to.
    No matter how much you want that to be true.
    I don't decide my experience applies to others.
    I just know what mine is, and that is something you just want to dismiss because you don't want to believe it to be true.
    Well it is, suck it up.
    Quote Originally Posted by DeadmanWalking View Post
    Your forgot to include the part where we blame casuals for everything because blizzard is catering to casuals when casuals got jack squat for new content the entire expansion, like new dungeons and scenarios.
    Quote Originally Posted by Reinaerd View Post
    T'is good to see there are still people valiantly putting the "Ass" in assumption.

  7. #607
    Titan Charge me Doctor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ComputerNerd View Post
    LFR has been proven repeatedly to have a place,
    And that upsets you.
    Again, i never ever said that it has no place, and LFR existing doesn't upset me. Clearing LFR takes as much time as pugging normal, so the argument of "people with less time in hands do LFR" is simply false. People will less time and dedication - sure, but LFR is as time consuming as normal raiding is.

    The only time i went in LFR during nighthold was when i was on my monk alt and could get an extra cache from queueing as a healer, and you know what? Most of players on this LFR run weren't even players. And it happens regularly, i don't base it simply on my two or three LFR runs, my wife does LFR regularly and it takes up to fucking 40 minutes to get into it as a DPS, it's AFKers/bot riddled place when 10 actual players just do everything to get whatever they want - weird sense of satisfaction, a quest completion, a last piece for 4p set, an OPed trinket or whatever.

    But as i said multiple times - i'm not against it and totally fine with it existing, it doesn't affect me by any stretch of imagination, i'm not stepping into it and i do not feel excluded of "content" because of that - but lying that LFR is somehow "time saving" activity, that people who do LFR "just don't have time for normal raiding" are disingenuous and misleading - pugging normal raids doesn't take much time, you can clear normal via pugs by dedicating overall 4 hours per week to raiding, and even that is a huge stretch.
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  8. #608
    Bloodsail Admiral TheHodedOne's Avatar
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    I love Blizzard´s classism towards casual players.
    They basically say: if you are casual or you don´t have a guild or you have little time for pugs fu#$k you, you´ll have to wait 1 month.

  9. #609
    The amount of scrubs in this thread is epic.

  10. #610
    Quote Originally Posted by Better View Post
    You could say this about 99% of any community behavior in wow, we don't have the numbers, and will never get them. We do have people in just about every LFR thread that say they do this exact thing, but that's not evidence. We can visibly see the number of players hanging around in dal decrease, but that's not sufficient evidence.

    I think it's very safe to say, even without being able to prove it due to blizzard no longer posting sub counts, that when new content comes out, like a raid, sub numbers increase. This assumption rings true to how things worked historically when Blizz did post sub numbers. However assuming the trend as we last saw it remains true, wow is still losing subs every year. Unless you want to deny that these two are most likely true you can make a reasonable guess that a decent number of them are players who want to see the content(raid), and do so in a very casual manner that doesn't require effort to be put in on their part prior to the patch. Which mostly leaves LFR, and to a lesser degree Normal PuGs.

    You simply see what you want to see and still have no factual support. For instance, I have only very very rarely seen someone mention that they are canceling a sub after completing LFR. So from my experience, you are completely wrong and spreading misinformation.

    It is entirely possible that I am doing the same (seeing what I want to see) so I will give you the opportunity to link some of these posts in a response... I think you will be hard-pressed to find many, but I suppose it is possible that you might find one or two.

    The thing is, there is not a real good reason why anyone at any level but Mythic would be more or less likely to unsub after completing a raid. Mythic raiders must keep thier gear at top-notch level, so they need to continue farming for the next raid (this is a given).

    However, there is no real reason why an LFR raider would be any more likely to unsub after completion than a Normal or Heroic raider, because people simply feel done when they feel done... And there is no logical stimulus that would trigger that feeling in one group more than another.
    Last edited by Wingspan; 2017-06-29 at 08:04 PM.

  11. #611
    Lol, this discussion still going on.

    LFR heroes really wondering why its delayed? How are they gonna milk you off your money bro?

    You are, supposedly 99% of the WoW population, which that number isnt true anymore, many more people raid nowadays but they just do it casually or pug normal and never resub again.

    And you are complaining that they are milking you

    Took you only 8 years, congratulations.

  12. #612
    Quote Originally Posted by potis View Post
    Lol, this discussion still going on.

    LFR heroes really wondering why its delayed? How are they gonna milk you off your money bro?

    You are, supposedly 99% of the WoW population, which that number isnt true anymore, many more people raid nowadays but they just do it casually or pug normal and never resub again.

    And you are complaining that they are milking you

    Took you only 8 years, congratulations.
    Couldnt said it better my self. The last last 3-4 years the amount of ppl raiding at least normals has gone up a lot. And yes they gate lfr to milk u another sub month for those who r stubborns and refuse to do normals.

  13. #613
    Nothing constructive is coming from this thread being open lol. Just lock it and be done with it.

  14. #614
    Quote Originally Posted by Jtbrig7390 View Post
    It should change because the reason on why it was done in the first place is no longer there. It was done because a small minority felt required to do it. Now loot rains from everywhere and that is no longer the case.

    There is ZERO good reasons to gate LFR for 2 months.
    -----

    with the current ease of normal there is ZERO reason for LFR at all
    There is no Bad RNG just Bad LTP

  15. #615
    Quote Originally Posted by judgementofantonidas View Post
    -----

    with the current ease of normal there is ZERO reason for LFR at all


    Sure there is. Not the least of which is the fact that eliminating LFR would just start people down the path of calling Normal too easy, which will only lead to threads calling for nerfing the rewards of Normal Mode and suggesting that maybe it should be removed from the game. (Don't even kid yourself if you think it wouldn't happen.)

    LFR has enough other things to offer that justify its presence anyway, so it isn't going anywhere regardless.

  16. #616
    Quote Originally Posted by judgementofantonidas View Post
    -----

    with the current ease of normal there is ZERO reason for LFR at all
    You can't queue for normal so that is reason enough for LFR.

  17. #617
    Quote Originally Posted by Deadite View Post
    You can't queue for normal so that is reason enough for LFR.
    Sure you can. Hit that same hot key you hit for LFR except hit a few more buttons. Hit custom, legion raid and then hit a group you want. BOOM qued for both NORMAL AND HEROIC! It just takes a few more seconds. The qued are also faster.

    InB4: but I don't have the ILevel or get denied. Well yeah, no shit you can't be a LFR only player expecting to join a farm run. You need to walk before you run. Play within your current means and progressively advance.

    I run PuGs every week and never have set ILevel requirements. Instead I use a strict 2 time fuck up rule. If you mess up you get a warning. If you mess up again then there's 20 other people already in que to replace you. On average I kick 3 people a week but guess what, we went 9/9H week 1 which most guilds couldn't even do.

  18. #618
    Quote Originally Posted by Charge me Doctor View Post
    Again, i never ever said that it has no place, and LFR existing doesn't upset me. Clearing LFR takes as much time as pugging normal, so the argument of "people with less time in hands do LFR" is simply false. People will less time and dedication - sure, but LFR is as time consuming as normal raiding is.

    The only time i went in LFR during nighthold was when i was on my monk alt and could get an extra cache from queueing as a healer, and you know what? Most of players on this LFR run weren't even players. And it happens regularly, i don't base it simply on my two or three LFR runs, my wife does LFR regularly and it takes up to fucking 40 minutes to get into it as a DPS, it's AFKers/bot riddled place when 10 actual players just do everything to get whatever they want - weird sense of satisfaction, a quest completion, a last piece for 4p set, an OPed trinket or whatever.

    But as i said multiple times - i'm not against it and totally fine with it existing, it doesn't affect me by any stretch of imagination, i'm not stepping into it and i do not feel excluded of "content" because of that - but lying that LFR is somehow "time saving" activity, that people who do LFR "just don't have time for normal raiding" are disingenuous and misleading - pugging normal raids doesn't take much time, you can clear normal via pugs by dedicating overall 4 hours per week to raiding, and even that is a huge stretch.
    The argument you make keeps relying on your own experiences.
    Dismissing those of others does not make your argument stronger, only weaker.
    I did not say LFR is time-saving, only offering an option that due to irregular time constraints means I cannot with any consistency manage time in advance to a format where commitment is expected, which the traditional format its.
    In what other format can I just jump in, at some number of kills later without demands of item level, without demands of a minimum stay.
    There isn't another like that.

    Prior to LFR my raiding was with a guild where compromises were common, on both sides.
    Real life was understood to happen.
    But there has been a general trend towards "efficiency" at the cost of everything else.
    Traditional raiding is as hard to enter as those running it want it to be.
    And that is why LFR continues to be important as a format, that lack of player-created rules.
    Last edited by ComputerNerd; 2017-06-29 at 09:52 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by DeadmanWalking View Post
    Your forgot to include the part where we blame casuals for everything because blizzard is catering to casuals when casuals got jack squat for new content the entire expansion, like new dungeons and scenarios.
    Quote Originally Posted by Reinaerd View Post
    T'is good to see there are still people valiantly putting the "Ass" in assumption.

  19. #619
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    Quote Originally Posted by cqwrteur View Post
    LFRKicker addon!!
    u mean the addon that was taken down from curse? lol

    Take ur toxic shit addon somewhere else.
    Last edited by Arlee; 2017-06-30 at 05:23 PM. Reason: removed mod link
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  20. #620
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frolk View Post
    u mean the addon that was taken down from curse? lol

    Take ur toxic shit addon somewhere else.
    LFR is toxic. Not the addon. If you do LFR as much as I do, you WILL need this addon.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Frolk View Post
    u mean the addon that was taken down from curse? lol

    Take ur toxic shit addon somewhere else.
    Saying LFR is "lack of player-created rules" is just wrong. People start to kick low dps players in LFR before this addon. This addon just pushes people's idea into a solid rule.



    - - - Updated - - -


    Quote Originally Posted by weirdman
    I need this addon in my life right now. Such a huge proponent of this you have no idea. LFR is some a dumb cluster of sadness and stupidity. This may or may not make it worse but knowing it's out there and that people are using MIGHT encourage people to actually participate in a fight.

    Improvement suggestions:
    Auto-kick due to excessive damage taken (obviously an endeavor as some fights require dps to take dmg, more aiming this at the people who intentionally ignore mechanics)
    Auto-kick due to low actions per minute.
    Auto-kick due to immediate deaths at the start of the fight (killing yourself to avoid participating in the fight)
    Auto-kick players from the same guild, same server with a x # of sequential character match in their name (often people trying to multi-box LFR and one toon will do nothing the whole time)
    Auto-Kick players who do not perform any actions during a fights (compare raid roster vs. tank/dps/healer actions taken, workaround to avoid exploiting the above low actions per minute auto-kick rule)

    Duplicate similar rules for Healer/Tank roles.

    Thanks for your awesome and hard work!
    Last edited by Arlee; 2017-06-30 at 05:26 PM. Reason: removing links

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