[Spoilers] So How About Argus?

[iamthedevil]

So it looks like all the Titans have a model, which is awesome. But there is also this:



Wrong title or actually a Titan of Argus? Or Maybe a Titan named Argus from Chicago?

[Wyrt]

I don't like that everything in Warcraft has to be Titans. Argus shouldn't have had anything to do with Titans(other than Sargeras).

[iamthedevil]

I don't like that everything in Warcraft has to be Titans. Argus shouldn't have had anything to do with Titans(other than Sargeras).

Seeing as how Titans are the forger of worlds, that may be tough. This could be the Titan that just helped craft Argus, but not born of the planet itself.

[Wyrt]

Seeing as how Titans are the forger of worlds, that may be tough. This could be the Titan that just helped craft Argus, but not born of the planet itself.

Titans didn't make worlds, they just "ordered" some of them.

[iamthedevil]

Titans didn't make worlds, they just "ordered" some of them.

That's exactly what i just said. Forger and crafted. I would have said creator.

[Destinas]

It's possible, but we have no information aside from his file name, model, and dungeon journal name (Argus the Unmaker). Interestingly, he has Draenei ears, and his skull seems to have a large piece missing with energy leaking out of it - similar to a large piece of Argus itself missing, with energy leaking out of it. He also looks nearly dead, with a skeletal face. However, he doesn't have any other features similar to that of a Draenei/Eredar, except perhaps the skin tone. He has humanoid legs and feet, and no tail.

Wowhead has a complete model datamined for this person, who has a helmet. With the helmet on, it's harder to see his ears, and his skeletal face is completely hidden.

[iamthedevil]

It's possible, but we have no information aside from his file name, model, and dungeon journal name (Argus the Unmaker). Interestingly, he has Draenei ears, and his skull seems to have a large piece missing with energy leaking out of it - similar to a large piece of Argus itself missing, with energy leaking out of it. He also looks nearly dead, with a skeletal face. However, he doesn't have any other features similar to that of a Draenei/Eredar, except perhaps the skin tone. He has humanoid legs and feet, and no tail.

Wowhead has a complete model datamined for this person, who has a helmet. With the helmet on, it's harder to see his ears, and his skeletal face is completely hidden.

Nice. That is a very titan-like helmet.

Honestly, reminds me of Galactus.

[Aucald]

If we're going to be talking about 7.3 stuff please remember to tag your thread title with something along the lines of "[Spoilers]." I've gone ahead and added to this particular thread's title so no one is caught unaware. Once 7.3 goes to the Live servers it can be discussed with impunity.

Also, try as best as you can to ensure your thread's title isn't itself a spoiler until 7.3 hits the Live servers.

[nothingsjim]

I believe it's an Avatar Sargeras crafted for himself using part of Argus, which explains why there's a huge hole in the planet.

It actually follows the trend of bosses we fought so far. Mythic NH Gul'dan we fought against Sargeras in Illidan's body, in Tomb we fought against Sargears's old, broken Avatar. Now in Argus, we will be fighting a proper Avatar of Sargeras.

I am willing to bet the damn thing is incomplete when we fight him, similar to the Protoss campaign against Amon's host body in SC2. Some lines among "If the thing is complete, we are all doomed..." etc

[Caerule]

It's definitely not Sargeras. As Sargeras is fine. Also his avatars tend to resemble him. Here's some examples of avatars of Sargeras and their appearance:

And that's basically how he looks in every depiction. From the old sources, to Chronicle. Same armor, even when he was uncorrupted. Even in the Tomb of Sargeras.
There's other features of his corrupted self. Massive horns. Flames blazing where a beard and hair once were. His broken sword.

Argus the Unmaker has no demonic features. He is showing no signs of fel corruption or flames. He wears a crazy hat, and seems to lack face skin. Everything seems to point to him not being Sargeras.

Argus the Unmaker is found at the final part of the raid, which leads deep into the planet's core. Which is exactly where you'd expect to find the world's soul. He has no journal entree, nor any abilities, unlike all the other bosses. It's possibly Blizzard seeks to keep him secret for now. Or even that he is Mythic-only.

[Destinas]

Another thing of note is that this Titan doesn't look like Sargeras before he was corrupted.



Some of the armor has similar shapes, but that's the case for most of the Titans - Golganneth and Aggramar have very similar helms, for instance. The only Titan that didn't retain his appearance from the WoW magazine art is Aggramar, who has a red and black color palette instead of a golden and blue one. However, his colors match the datamined "dark keeper" models, and he even has the same flaming eyes as them.

It's all the more likely this is a new Titan that wasn't previously discovered by the Pantheon with what info we have. The Titans ordered worlds to find world-souls aside from Azeroth. Aggramar found Draenor (which was stated to be a world the Titans hadn't discovered yet) and decided to help it by making Grond, even though he didn't detect a world-soul inside it. He didn't get to see the end result of his creation, because he left to find Sargeras, because he felt a constellar die. As a result, the Titans were cleaved down by Sargeras then. It's safe to assume that the Titans hadn't discovered a lot of planets, with or without world-souls, and that Argus could be one of them.

[Hctaz]

Seeing as how Titans are the forger of worlds, that may be tough. This could be the Titan that just helped craft Argus, but not born of the planet itself.

I mean the last boss is literally called "Argus the Unmaker" so... I'm pretty sure it's born of the planet.

[MrSaggins]

I could swear I remember reading Kil'jaeden or someone in a recent quest or something saying that the Eredar gave up the soul of their world to the Sargeras but I can't seem to find it

[nothingsjim]

It's definitely not Sargeras. As Sargeras is fine. Also his avatars tend to resemble him. Here's some examples of avatars of Sargeras and their appearance:

And that's basically how he looks in every depiction. From the old sources, to Chronicle. Same armor, even when he was uncorrupted. Even in the Tomb of Sargeras.
There's other features of his corrupted self. Massive horns. Flames blazing where a beard and hair once were. His broken sword.

Argus the Unmaker has no demonic features. He is showing no signs of fel corruption or flames. He wears a crazy hat, and seems to lack face skin. Everything seems to point to him not being Sargeras.

Argus the Unmaker is found at the final part of the raid, which leads deep into the planet's core. Which is exactly where you'd expect to find the world's soul. He has no journal entree, nor any abilities, unlike all the other bosses. It's possibly Blizzard seeks to keep him secret for now. Or even that he is Mythic-only.

Sargeras CAN appear as something magnificent and beautiful, when he first appeared in Argus to tempt the Eredar, he appeared as a radiant and elegant being. So he's definitely not stuck in a fel-infused form all the time.

WHY would Sargeras craft a handsome and elegant avatar instead of sticking to his usual image is up for question through. May be he wants to seduce the world soul inside Azeroth, and knows his usual look isn't going to win her heart?

[Aucald]

I could swear I remember reading Kil'jaeden or someone in a recent quest or something saying that the Eredar gave up the soul of their world to the Sargeras but I can't seem to find it

It's the intro cinematic to 7.2.5, when we go to the Broken Shore, I believe. In the intro cinematic, when Sargeras upbraids him for not believing in the Legion's destiny and Kil'jaeden responds "I paid for that destiny with my world" while pointing to a broken and Fel-tainted Argus.

[Ambo1]

Its not Sargaras its pretty clear by now his body is gone since he got destroyed by the WOE and he is inside Argus Regenerating. I Personally believe it might be a Watcher that was set on watching Argus as before the titans were slain they mightve found something on Argus that made it worth watching, Maybe due to its Ornate location in the universe it might be a link between the Realm Of the Void and the physical Realm. Given enough energy it would allow a Void Lord to be Summoned. This could also explain the amount of Void Activity on Argus as it shows how the legion is actually fighting on two fronts and why the whole planet isn't a Green Farm and why these small pocket resistances still remain

[Caerule]

Its not Sargaras its pretty clear by now his body is gone since he got destroyed by the WOE and he is inside Argus Regenerating. I Personally believe it might be a Watcher that was set on watching Argus as before the titans were slain they mightve found something on Argus that made it worth watching, Maybe due to its Ornate location in the universe it might be a link between the Realm Of the Void and the physical Realm. Given enough energy it would allow a Void Lord to be Summoned. This could also explain the amount of Void Activity on Argus as it shows how the legion is actually fighting on two fronts and why the whole planet isn't a Green Farm and why these small pocket resistances still remain

Sargeras was not destroyed by the Well of Eternity. What happens to him is left ambiguous in that book, as the portal merely crumbles, shrinks and then vanishes with him inside. The new Chronicle book series explains he got shunted back into the Nether.

This Argus the Unmaker is in the core of the planet. That's where the raid goes. It's not Sargerus inside Argus. It is this thing. Exactly where one would expect a world-soul.

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WHY would Sargeras craft a handsome and elegant avatar instead of sticking to his usual image is up for question through. May be he wants to seduce the world soul inside Azeroth, and knows his usual look isn't going to win her heart?

I wouldn't call Argus the Unmaker handsome and elegant... He has no lips or nose. There's black spikes sticking out of him. So not only does he not look like Sargeras. He doesn't really look like something Sargeras would appear as, if he wanted to disguise himself.

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I could swear I remember reading Kil'jaeden or someone in a recent quest or something saying that the Eredar gave up the soul of their world to the Sargeras but I can't seem to find it

Velen mentions Kil'Jaeden bartering the soul of his world away in the new quest on the Broken Shore that sends you to kill Kil'Jaeden:
http://media.mmo-champion.com/images.../newQuests.jpg

It's unclear if he is being metaphorical or if he knows Argus had an actual soul. There's been no clue of it being the case, until now.

[Ambo1]

In the 7.2 Trailer Kil'Jaedan states that he gave his world in return for power and glory. Its speculated that Kil'Jaedan was in direct communication with Sargaras and Sargaras is somewhere near Argus. It would explain Kil'Jaedan's Tone and Attitude toward Sargaras as if he was in his full power and not in a limbo he would smash Kil'jaedan to pieces. If thats not the Case Where is Sargaras? Chilling in the Cosmos while we destroy his main base of operations? Makes no Sense Sargaras is inside of Argus Period. A better inference would be that this Argus the Unmaker is an Avatar of Sargaras that he was going to use to further continue his agenda as the legion is crippled without its Two Main leaders. The legion itself is in Shambles and has No real leadership anymore.

[elaina]

It's gotta be an extension of his soul residing in the planet. Please don't forget bosses change appearances mid-fight all the time. Doing it this way justifies our having the ability to fight and contend with him in the first place (because it is still in some sense an avatar). This method will also keep the aftermath appropriately vague as to how "defeated" Sargeras even is (blizz loves this).

Mythic phase for this one will be very interesting indeed.

[Caerule]

In the 7.2 Trailer Kil'Jaedan states that he gave his world in return for power and glory. Its speculated that Kil'Jaedan was in direct communication with Sargaras and Sargaras is somewhere near Argus. It would explain Kil'Jaedan's Tone and Attitude toward Sargaras as if he was in his full power and not in a limbo he would smash Kil'jaedan to pieces. If thats not the Case Where is Sargaras? Chilling in the Cosmos while we destroy his main base of operations? Makes no Sense Sargaras is inside of Argus Period. A better inference would be that this Argus the Unmaker is an Avatar of Sargaras that he was going to use to further continue his agenda as the legion is crippled without its Two Main leaders. The legion itself is in Shambles and has No real leadership anymore.

You're making a whole lot of assumptions there. You speculate Sargeras was near Argus. Kil'Jaeden showed some disagreement yes, as second command to Sargeras, but he didn't defy him. As for where Sargeras is? Could be anywhere. Cosmos is vast. I do agree I thought it likely for him to show up when we're messing up his stuff, but we've yet to see evidence of that. If he does, perhaps it will only be in the ending cinematic.

What we do know is that he doesn't seem to be inside Argus. Not only have I stated many times now that his own body is fine. Even if it was not, we now know what's in the center of Argus. It is a Titan avatar that looks nothing like Sargeras, that is named Argus. And is fought after another Titan that's been brainwashed into serving Sargeras. That we fight after fighting the forces of Sargeras that are brainwashing Titans.

The obvious conclusion is that Argus the Unmaker is the twisted soul of Argus, working under Sargeras's command.

But people seem to really want Sargeras to be inside Argus, so I suppose I'll agree to disagree on this one, and let time tell.