Rich people in america have too much money, says the world’s second-richest man

[Nadiru]

wealthy people are actually increasingly not wealthy as a result of their own labor/invention/etc; more and more of the forbes list every year are inheritors of wealth. Some of them may or may not be good at business, but it's difficult to argue that they got their via their own merit.

the U.S. is currently nearing bell epoque-levels of wealth inequality; we don't really know how civil society will respond to that. We do know that the the relatively egalitarian mid-20th century western society that our leaders are always telling us to return to was largely the product of a much more even distribution of wealth. Granted we probably don't want to repeat the leveling process that took place in between (two world wars), but still.

The source of their wealth matters considerably less than their having it. It's really odd though, given that the rich own all the productive assets in the US, that they would directly work to undermine their own net worth by trying to maintain their wealth. It is much better to own a factory when many people have the money and desire to buy whatever that factory produces, than to own a factory from which only a few people can purchase. Marriner Eccles (Fed Chairman from the 20s-30s) had a good quote on this, about income inequality:

"As mass production has to be accompanied by mass consumption, mass consumption, in turn, implies a distribution of wealth ... to provide men with buying power. ... Instead of achieving that kind of distribution, a giant suction pump had by 1929-30 drawn into a few hands an increasing portion of currently produced wealth. ... The other fellows could stay in the game only by borrowing. When their credit ran out, the game stopped."

[jdbond592]

That is good. He can afford it. Not up to him however what others do with their money. His opinion is no more worthy of consideration than anyone else.

Huh. By that logic. Trump and his supporters are not right or wrong, just plenty? Not even that but you get the drift. You basically admitted to mob being right.



I am pretty sure some people's opinion is "worth" more than others.

[Cheze]

it's also worth mentioning that we aren't really talking about the top 10% of income earners; the top decile do very well, but their income is still generally a product of their labor (salary, direct commission, etc.) It's only the top .5-1% who are 1) disproportionately earning their income from capital and 2) controlling a larger and larger portion of the national pie.

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The source of their wealth matters considerably less than their having it. It's really odd though, given that the rich own all the productive assets in the US, that they would directly work to undermine their own net worth by trying to maintain their wealth. It is much better to own a factory when many people have the money and desire to buy whatever that factory produces, than to own a factory from which only a few people can purchase. Marriner Eccles (Fed Chairman from the 20s-30s) had a good quote on this, about income inequality:

"As mass production has to be accompanied by mass consumption, mass consumption, in turn, implies a distribution of wealth ... to provide men with buying power. ... Instead of achieving that kind of distribution, a giant suction pump had by 1929-30 drawn into a few hands an increasing portion of currently produced wealth. ... The other fellows could stay in the game only by borrowing. When their credit ran out, the game stopped."

I disagree that the source of wealth doesn't matter; we might reasonably argue that such as bill gates truly does deserve his massive wealth, since the company, software and so on he helped create have been so useful for society. That argument kinda falls apart if we're talking about Paris Hilton though, and every year there are more Paris Hiltons and fewer Bill Gates-es among the wealthiest americans.

[Nadiru]

I disagree that the source of wealth doesn't matter; we might reasonably argue that such as bill gates truly does deserve his massive wealth, since the company, software and so on he helped create have been so useful for society. That argument kinda falls apart if we're talking about Paris Hilton though, and every year there are more Paris Hiltons and fewer Bill Gates-es among the wealthiest americans.

Paris Hilton gets a bad rap, imo. She's a celebutante, sure, but she turned her fame into money on her own. She was never going to be a failure but she also didn't have to succeed as hard as she did.

[Sunseeker]

As long as you have a PC to type on MMO-champion, you are good.

Yeah, but I'm an American, so logically I want more.

[Mittens]

I blame the top 20%.

[Orlong]

Capitalism is the result of the industrial revolution and democracy. It itself isn't responsible for this prosperity, just a byproduct.

Minimum wage was created as a result of the "New Deal" to fix the American economy. This was during the great recession of 1937. This was to prevent the fuckery of companies as they just paid you what they felt like. In fact the reason America has the tip system for our food establishments is cause during this time period employers stopped paying them. It was literally your choice to pay the service or not. No other part of the world has this system, just USA.

There's a very good reason why we have minimum wage.

And yet in Maine the government raised the minimum wage to $12 an hour in $1 increments each year until 2024. It didnt work and the restaurant workers demanded they rescind the new higher minimum wage and just last week they repealed the minimum wage increase. You see as soon as the minimum wage increase bill passed, many restaurant workers got their hours cut, prices went up, and people were no longer expected to tip. Servers like tips because they can evade taxes on the cash tips, and they more often than not make a lot more than minimum wage anyway after tips unless they work in some shithole that nobody eats at. The same thing is happening in Seattle. Restaurants are charging more, workers are getting less hours, and less people are eating out.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...didnt-want-it/

A November referendum to raise both the regular and tipped minimum wages — $7.50 and $3.75, respectively — won with 55 percent of the vote. (It required a simple majority.) But almost immediately after the vote was tallied, tipped servers began to complain that the result would hurt their livelihoods.

Their fears were twofold, said Sue Vallenza, a 55-year-old bartender at the Pilot House in Kennebunk, Maine, who immediately began lobbying state legislators to overrule the referendum. Many servers feared the higher costs to owners would lead them to raise prices or cut shifts. And at a packed, 10-hour April meeting of the Maine Legislature’s Labor, Commerce, Research and Economic Development Committee, dozens of servers also said some confused customers were already tipping less.

Vallenza said she saw her hourly tips drop by more than $2 per hour, from the $20 to $30 per hour she made before.

“I don’t need to be ‘saved,’ and I’ll be damned if small groups of uninformed people are voting on my livelihood,” Vallenza said. “You can’t cut someone off at the knees like that.”

Adam Conover is a far left lunatic who is great at making people believe bullshit on his stupid TV show.

[Hammerfest]

Ol' Warren should just give up his wealth if he feels that way.

[Sunseeker]

And yet in Maine the government raised the minimum wage to $12 an hour in $1 increments each year until 2024. It didnt work and the restaurant workers demanded they rescind the new higher minimum wage and just last week they repealed the minimum wage increase. You see as soon as the minimum wage increase bill passed, many restaurant workers got their hours cut, prices went up, and people were no longer expected to tip. Servers like tips because they can evade taxes on the cash tips, and they more often than not make a lot more than minimum wage anyway after tips unless they work in some shithole that nobody eats at. The same thing is happening in Seattle. Restaurants are charging more, workers are getting less hours, and less people are eating out.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...didnt-want-it/



Adam Conover is a far left lunatic who is great at making people believe bullshit on his stupid TV show.

So everyone lost minimum wage hikes because restaurant workers wanted bonus under-the-table cash so they could dodge taxes?

Well holy fuck if that doesn't sum all all our problems right there I don't know what does.

[Ghostpanther]

Paying more personal tax would have no effect on fixing the system.

The Democratic party is ruled by establishment democrats, who are at least as much against taxing the rich as the establishment Republicans - they're both rich parties serving rich donors - with the same goals. On the topic of taxes, everything else is rhetoric. Actually taxing the rich would require an outsider, who would need to come to power against the wishes of the establishment elements of both parties, and then pass legislation against their wishes: virtually impossible.

And before you say Trump is an outsider, Trump is a donor - a billionaire who hardly pays taxes. He's not about to increase taxes on himself when he only ran for POTUS so he could increase his brand value and net worth.

I do not disagree with all your points. But as a whole, the Democratic party is more favorable for higher taxes on the rich versus the Republicans. What I do not like however, is for some to preach one thing, then not do it themselves. Like Al Gore and global warming. :P

[Rustedsaint]

Buffet and bill are decent rich people, I remember that bill gates himself has put forth a contact that his wealth will be donated to charities after his death along with afew other people.

[Rooflesstoofless]

wealthy people are actually increasingly not wealthy as a result of their own labor/invention/etc; more and more of the forbes list every year are inheritors of wealth. Some of them may or may not be good at business, but it's difficult to argue that they got their via their own merit.

This is exactly how it is with 90% of the affluent people in my area and it's a little bit disgusting. You have a few rare breeds that really hit it out of the park on their own but most of the truly wealthy people around here are multi-generational rich. Heck, I know a guy who just now, in his 40's, is finally making some of his own money after having a near endless supply of investments and cash flow on belly-up bullshit businesses from his family trust. He loves to pass himself off as a self-made man, too.

[stabetha]

Is this jealousy? Why does it matter how much other people have. You're still better off as one of the bottom 1% in USA than the top 10% in say Venezuela or some crappy African country.

Shit, the poor in the US have it better off then the middle class in most European nation's.

[Halicia]

And yet in Maine the government raised the minimum wage to $12 an hour in $1 increments each year until 2024.

You realize how low the minimum wage is currently in Maine ? Please don't use some minimum wage that's 7 years from even taking effect as some sort as rationale that "better minimum wages don't work".

The governor (Trump's inspiration) has gone on record saying that people should be working 80/hours a week to live. A quote I've used a few times on this forum.

Many restaurant owners in Portland (Maine) have removed tips to great success... I mean, if you want to retain good employees and ensure they're doing the work YOU want of them, you don't let some random guy off the street determine how much they should be paid.

To followup with Portland, the city raised their minimum wage significantly, and its worked wonders for their economy. Sales are up, employment is up, and they've been sucking the economy from neighboring towns & cities since its tough to get people to work for half the pay when they can simply drive 5 minutes longer and get paid double for an entry-level position.

[Tijuana]

The US has 3rd world shithole levels of wealth inequality.

Yet, we have the richest poor people in the world, and communist countries have the poorest poor people in the world. If you are advocating for making the gap closer, while factually making the poor poorer, you are not wishing for something good.

[Elegiac]

Yet, we have the richest poor people in the world, and communist countries have the poorest poor people in the world. If you are advocating for making the gap closer, while factually making the poor poorer, you are not wishing for something good.

You can lower wealth inequality without establishing a Stalinist dictatorship, point in fact.

[Moon-Man]

Giving billions to charities mostly.

The problem isn't with individuals, it's with the system.

And it goes back to him. Or in any case, charity will not have that money.

[Tijuana]

You can lower wealth inequality without establishing a Stalinist dictatorship, point in fact.

The more you redistribute wealth, the poorer the poor become, point in fact. The two richest men in the world have pledged to give it all to charity. Yet, your side would have the government seize it before they can do that.

[Elegiac]

The more you redistribute wealth, the poorer the poor become, point in fact.

Your source being....what? Dictatorial governments that were never interested in redistribution of wealth but used it as a selling point to justify their stranglehold on power?

The two richest men in the world have pledged to give it all to charity. Yet, your side would have the government seize it before they can do that.

Precisely, because private charity is ethically questionable and hugely ineffective as a means of addressing widespread social ills.

[Tijuana]

Your source being....what? Dictatorial governments that were never interested in redistribution of wealth but used it as a selling point to justify their stranglehold on power?



Precisely, because private charity is ethically questionable and hugely ineffective as a means of addressing widespread social ills.

Yes, yes, every time a Communist country fails, we are told, "But this wasn't REAL communism. WE would run it sooo much better and more fairly." Please. The concept has worked out the same every time. Communism is 0-38.