Ever felt like you were a liability in a mythic guild?

[KrystaD]

First a little context. My guild is 1/9M atm and we got cutting edge Guldan. I joined them towards the end of the last raid cycle as they were progressing on Mythic Eli. I only raided heroics prior and had no mythic experience but they were still willing to give me a chance. I managed to pass the trial easily and they quickly geared me up. Even though there were countless wipes on Guldan, it was amazing when we finally killed him.

We have been progressing nicely on H TOS and killed Kiljaeden in the first week. I was even awarded some tier pieces and am now 1 piece away from 4 set bonus. However, I have been noticing that I have been performing comparatively worse in logs compared to many others in the raid. I have a 2 orange parses, a few purples, and the rest are blues and greens, putting me at 70% average percentile for heroic and I was at 51% for M goroth in last night's kill. There are about 5 or 6 people in the guild who consistently hit orange and purple and average around 85%.

So I'm somewhat in a conundrum now. On one hand, I feel like I'm somewhat being carried while others that might perform better are being sat and I don't want to hinder progression. On the other hand, the fact that I have been given loot makes me think that they want me to be part of the team and I don't want to abandon them. I am considering either taking a break from raiding altogether or join a "less skilled" progression guild. I have tried reading detailed guides on my class, watching videos, analyzing logs but I can't seem to push it to the next level. This has led to increased stress levels and raiding is becoming less fun as it only becomes a matter of numbers as I try to catch up to others. I kinda miss the old days where I raided heroic with my old guild and can goof around. In mythic, I feel like I can't make a single mistake and have to play optimally all the time just to keep up with others and it feels like a job. I don't really want to leave though because these are just a great bunch of guys who don't have an elitist bone in their body despite all this. Any thoughts or advice?

[Lamuria]

dont worry about parses so much when your doing progression you need to focus more on mechanics and not dying for progression so long as it dies before it enrages and you dont die or take a bunch of damage you are doing your part besides a lot of the time parsing high involves cheesing the fight in 1 way or another to increase damage kinda like tanking skorpyron on the add spawn location so not always ideal for progression

[Shelly]

Pretty clear that while the guild is working towards a mythic clear they aren't exactly in the world first race.

If your guildies don't have a problem with your performance then there is no problem, but you may want to talk over your reservations with the guild leader or raid leader.

If you want specific help, rather than just moral support, you may want to mention what class you are so people can give specific advice for each fight or send you to the right forum.

[Temp name]

There are many reasons why you might get lower rankings than them, and absolutely none of them matter on progress.
In a few weeks, if you're still behind everyone else on the farm bosses, then maybe you have a point, but for progression there's a lot more to worry about than just if you can do lots of dps

[KrystaD]

Pretty clear that while the guild is working towards a mythic clear they aren't exactly in the world first race.

If your guildies don't have a problem with your performance then there is no problem, but you may want to talk over your reservations with the guild leader or raid leader.

If you want specific help, rather than just moral support, you may want to mention what class you are so people can give specific advice for each fight or send you to the right forum.

I don't really want to give details as that would make it too obvious. Let's just say my class is pretty bad for goroth but amazing for some others . The problem is made more glaring though because there is someone playing the same spec as me and doing better on average on most fights even though I'm more geared. I have tried analyzing both our logs but I'm not exactly good at that.

[hpgupta]

If the raid/guild leader hasn't asked u to sit out, it means they want you over the people they are benching (the people who are performing better than you). There is no need to leave till you start getting benched.
Raid leaders generally prioritize a lot of other things than just your parses. How are you at mechanics, how regular you are, how much effort you put in, how many solo tasks can you be given count way more than just a percentile number in your logs.
tl,dr: don't think of leaving till you start getting benched

[Galluccio]

I feel sad when the game has come down to a DPS race between team members. I remember a day when no one really knew who was doing what DPS. It was more fun then.

[ceall]

I don't really want to give details as that would make it too obvious. Let's just say my class is pretty bad for goroth but amazing for some others . The problem is made more glaring though because there is someone playing the same spec as me and doing better on average on most fights even though I'm more geared. I have tried analyzing both our logs but I'm not exactly good at that.

Seems like you're a WW Monk

Don't worry, first of all, don't worry about parses as long as bosses die.
2ND: just play the mechanics. You could do 99% parses, if you didn't care about them, but then, a dead player does 0 dps.
3rd: better (higher ilvl) gear doesn't mean so much these days. If the other guy of your class already has his bis trinkets or relics or even a specific combination of t19 and t20 and you don't, then it's 100% normal for you to doing worse dps than him.

An example for point 2: we have a lock in our group, he NEVER moves on mythic star augur. He regularly did 90%+ parses, but he also didn't give a damn about mechanics, which sometimes has led to wipes.

[KrystaD]

I feel sad when the game has come down to a DPS race between team members. I remember a day when no one really knew who was doing what DPS. It was more fun then.

Weirdly, I kind of agree with this sentiment. It gets more cutthroat the higher your guild is ranked. The fixed 20 man size is the main reason for this 1 feel but I understand why this is necessary. When I was raiding heroic, I felt I could do much better but mythic is a whole different ball game. You do get much better players but there is payoff for that. I feel it takes a certain character to do it. There are pros and cons on both sides really.

Edit: Thanks all for the responses. I think I'll stick around for a while longer and fight!

[Toastiekins]

Something else to keep in mind that for mythic parses in particular, you're competing against some people who have done splits on their characters and are possibly 10 item levels across their entire raid higher than yours. When my guild downed mythic goroth on wednesday, I got a 100th percentile for my item level at 916. That's changed since then, but still something to keep in mind.

[Drish]

As someone on both ends (I raid in one guild, raid lead another), damage is something people look at, but not the only thing.

Are you constantly dying to silly things?
Are you making good suggestions/reminders to others?
Are you willing to go out of your way and lower your damage so that important mechanics are dealt with? (ie melee soaking Armageddon on KJ)
Are you helping keeping the raid in a good mood while you wipe and progress?

There are many reasons why the guild leadership may be bringing you. If you feel you are doing subpar theres realistically two things you can do about it : dwell and spiral into despair, or rise to the occasion. My best advice is to seek out help from someone in a position above you, whether its your guildy, someone in class forums/discord, or just looking up someone randomly thats parsing above you and shooting them a whisper.

While its nice to parse really high, just remember that 50% is average. If you're hitting average, you're carrying your weight. Especially on progression its a lot more about "dont die/do anything stupid" than it is about output. Nighthold had some dps checks. From experience, the first 4 on mythic seem to be more of "dont do anything stupid".

[Alvito]

Seems like you're a WW Monk .

2 WW monks on mythic progression, HA.

- - - Updated - - -

I don't really want to give details as that would make it too obvious. Let's just say my class is pretty bad for goroth but amazing for some others . The problem is made more glaring though because there is someone playing the same spec as me and doing better on average on most fights even though I'm more geared. I have tried analyzing both our logs but I'm not exactly good at that.

Well since you think the forum boards are going to some how stalk you with just knowing your class you are limited for help options. I would talk to the other person in your raid and go from there.

- - - Updated - - -

I feel sad when the game has come down to a DPS race between team members. I remember a day when no one really knew who was doing what DPS. It was more fun then.

Damage meters have been around for a very long time and even back in vanilla most groups were well aware of who did what. Sadly if you want to raid the toughest content dmg done is important and people are going to discus it. The real problem with people focusing too much on dmg done is they often raise up their numbers while stepping on others to do it. When that happens it is a problem and needs to be stopped.

[KrystaD]

2 WW monks on mythic progression, HA.

Its not WW. Near bottom on Goroth but top 5 on 3 of the first 4 bosses. Pretty obvious now

Well since you think the forum boards are going to some how stalk you with just knowing your class you are limited for help options. I would talk to the other person in your raid and go from there.

Heh, it's not really forum users knowing my character more of any guildie browsing these boards. I'll be more than happy in fact if anyone on these forums can give me advice on how to improve.

[Cheze]

tbh worrying about rankings is dumb; people act like they align to high-skill play but often as not they don't really. You can't rank at doing mechanics right, or learning quickly from mistakes, or really any of the other attributes that actually matter to killing bosses. Even when they aren't being deliberately gamed (aff locks on inquisition) rankings are often as much a product of fight duration as anything.

if you are regularly parsing blue to purple you are doing more than the necessary throughput for your role

[Deleted]

I have, last tier in NH. Not due to skill, but due to gear. My Hunter was an end January reroll, so I got into Nighthold with a severely underleveled Artifact and a gear disadvantage. My DPS was good enough, excellent within my bracket, but I had 2.8mil HP, not even enough to survive specific Spellblade Mythic mechanics. The only way to overcome this was to get a Prydaz (I still don't have one and I main my Hunter now in Tomb) or farm AP 24/7, except I work a fulltime job at about 50-60 hours/week, so there was no chance for me to spam M+ from morning until midnight (which is what would be needed to get to 50+ traits in 2 weeks time back then).

It frustrated me so much that I took a 2 month break from the game. Best decision ever and 7.2.5 provided me with enough catchup that I currently only have a slight gear disadvantage compared to my teammates. Gear is something that can be solved in raids, so I'm not worried. I'll get Concordance in about 2 more days, so I'm settled as of then.

[Deleted]

I have, last tier in NH. Not due to skill, but due to gear. My Hunter was an end January reroll, so I got into Nighthold with a severely underleveled Artifact and a gear disadvantage. My DPS was good enough, excellent within my bracket, but I had 2.8mil HP, not even enough to survive specific Spellblade Mythic mechanics. The only way to overcome this was to get a Prydaz (I still don't have one and I main my Hunter now in Tomb) or farm AP 24/7, except I work a fulltime job at about 50-60 hours/week, so there was no chance for me to spam M+ from morning until midnight (which is what would be needed to get to 50+ traits in 2 weeks time back then).

It frustrated me so much that I took a 2 month break from the game. Best decision ever and 7.2.5 provided me with enough catchup that I currently only have a slight gear disadvantage compared to my teammates. Gear is something that can be solved in raids, so I'm not worried. I'll get Concordance in about 2 more days, so I'm settled as of then.

Even back then, you didn't need to spam m+ to get concordance. Playing the game would have sufficed. Not sure what level of NH you are raiding, but can't imagine a mythic guild would take you back after letting you re-roll, pump gear into you just for you to quit. Still, I pity your guild (somewhat, as it's kind of their own fault for taking you back), because you're going to quit again or re-roll again once either your hunter is fully equipped or you have seen all the content you want to see.

You sound a bit like the opposite of OP who is reflexive and an extremely good team-player, because he thinks of the raid, not himself.

[Deleted]

Even back then, you didn't need to spam m+ to get concordance. Playing the game would have sufficed. Not sure what level of NH you are raiding, but can't imagine a mythic guild would take you back after letting you re-roll, pump gear into you just for you to quit. Still, I pity your guild (somewhat, as it's kind of their own fault for taking you back), because you're going to quit again or re-roll again once either your hunter is fully equipped or you have seen all the content you want to see.

You sound a bit like the opposite of OP who is reflexive and an extremely good team-player, because he thinks of the raid, not himself.

There is no Concordance in 7.1.5. Poor trolling attempt. The guild broke up 1 week after I took my break, but hey keep on creating your own reality.

You know jack shit about me and you couldn't be farther from the truth. Keep your LFR hero judgment to yourself. We were clearing above and beyond the 1000+ rank you are playing at, or the median 66 percentile you perform at on farm content.

[xcitng]

I feel sad when the game has come down to a DPS race between team members. I remember a day when no one really knew who was doing what DPS. It was more fun then.

Living in a dream world again, vanilla guilds doing what would be mythic raiding of today would know how you performed and would be removed like what happens nowadays.

Also, every person and their dog being rogues, most of the players didn't get invited to anything due to the class they chose, which is much worse.

[Arcanines]

As long as you keep up at the minimum dps required who cares much?

Dont get me wrong I'd always take the guy doing 1.2 mil dps over 1 mil if they both dont fail, but wipes are because people are baddies and wont stop dps for 3 sec and figure out what to do.


If you where a liability you wouldn't be getting gear, as theres little to no point in gearing someone you can classify as "deadweight"

Clearly you're good enough for this guild, if you feel like youre not good enough then put in more effort to squeeze out more dps.

[Ztranger]

I felt like a liability being bottom dps on Krosus M for sure. To my defence I did soak the furthest back pools, so I was still useful enough to the raid for them to keep me there.