[7.3 Spoilers] On World-Souls and Azeroth's Inhabitants

[Thage]

At this point, my main question is less about the ramifications of Argus having a world-soul, and more about the ramifications of world souls in general. So far we've got two worlds with confirmed world-souls where the species on that world have become unusually strong. The eredar were powerful enough to draw the personal attention of Sargeras, who, rather than simply wiping them off the face of Argus, offered them a chance to join him. The Legion's other races, stands to reason, got similar offers for being similarly-noteworthy.

And multiple times, the Legion has tried to sway the standout races of Azeroth to its cause and resorts to invasions when it fails. Now, the big difference is that most of the eredar took Sargeras up on his offer, while the races of Azeroth settled for kicking Archimonde's and KJ's teeth in. There's also the matter of the Well of Eternity being confirmed as a giant bleeding wound that reaches all the way down into Azeroth's world-soul.

Bear with me on this one, because I'm about to pull out a somewhat flawed analogy given the stark difference in individual power, but I can't help but feel like worlds with a world-soul effectively radiate out power to the races living on it, much like the yellow sun in DC continuity empowers Kryptonians. While the eredar benefited, greatly, from Argus's world-soul, that bleeding wound on Azeroth basically put the various races of Azeroth, native, alien, or evolved/cursed, on fast-track steroids--hence why we have done multiple times over what no other world has managed to do, why we're so special, even when we're technologically outclassed and dealing with millennia-old beings packed to the gills with magical prowess. I can't help but wonder if prolonged exposure to energies radiating from the Well of Eternity, worldwide, have caused us to grow in power to the point where we surpassed the eredar in a fraction of the time.

[Deleted]

Draenor had no world-soul and had one of the most strongest species in lore, the Sporemounds.

It's all about the elements, mainly the fifth element.

[Zethras]

Draenor had no world-soul and had one of the most strongest species in lore, the Sporemounds.

It's all about the elements, mainly the fifth element.

Terrible movie.

But yes, the strength of the "spirit" element present on a world is GENERALLY the deciding factor of the strength of a species, and the Well of Eternity was basically a spirit font, being titan blood.

[Lahis]

Why do people keep claiming that Argus has a World Soul? Nowhere it is stated it has one.

Only World Souls were the Pantheon, that one unnamed and corrupted Sargeras destroyed and Azeroth.

[Dalheim]

Why do people keep claiming that Argus has a World Soul? Nowhere it is stated it has one.

Only World Souls were the Pantheon, that one unnamed and corrupted Sargeras destroyed and Azeroth.

Says who? There could be more titans that werent/havent been found.

[Lahis]

Says who? There could be more titans that werent/havent been found.

Sure, there can be more out there, but Argus isn't one of them.

Sargeras would have noticed it 25 000 years ago, and we would have two Fel titans leading the Legion, not one.

[Dalheim]

Sure, there can be more out there, but Argus isn't one of them.

Sargeras would have noticed it 25 000 years ago, and we would have two Fel titans leading the Legion, not one.

That's true. The ''Argus the Unmaker'' might just be a PH name or simply just be a contruct named after the planet. I'm really curious about it :P

[derpkitteh]

Terrible movie.

boi. you're playing with fire.

and yeah, spirit is the indicator for real strength. that's why azeroth's titan will be so insanely powerful if she manifests, even in her unborn state she is insanely strong but can't use her power.

[Destinas]

Arcane energy from the Well and other similar places (Un'Goro, Sholazar, Vale of Eternal Blossoms, etc) made the Wild Gods what they are. They were just animals, but they went to areas where Azeroth was bleeding, and it changed them - some less so (Tortolla, for instance) and some drastically (Aviana comes to mind). So, we do know it has some effect on living mortal creatures.

There's also some evidence that the Night Elves were made much stronger because of the Well and the ley lines of Azeroth. Dark Trolls settled near the Well, where they eventually became Night Elves - though Elune is credited with the actual transformation in Night Elven beliefs, there's certainly a history of arcane usage and a fondness of the Well of Eternity. They even believed that Elune slept within the Well during the day. The Nightborne are well versed in ley line usage and manipulation, and it was a huge part of their culture before the Nightwell was created.

While it's possible Argus had a world-soul from the datamined information/models in 7.3, Draenor should also be noted. It's confirmed in Chronicle Vol. 2 that Draenor doesn't have a world-soul, but there are ley lines there nonetheless. We search for them in Talador, establishing a network for the Kirin Tor. The planet also has an abundance of life energy, which caused the plant life to become sentient. Life/spirit energy is in the shamanistic branch of magic, but it's also the chi used by monks. Despite the fact that Draenor doesn't have a world-soul, the Arakkoa were excellent with arcane spells, and went on to teach the ogres (who, of course, were naturals at learning it, made from a Titan-made creation). Presumably, they were able to master arcane spells from the ley lines of Draenor.

Argus was one of the first (if not THE first) planets to be offered to join the Burning Legion, but it's said in Chronicle that Sargeras now offers every race from every world he's seen a chance to join the Legion. If they refuse, they die. It's noteworthy that Argus was exceptional because the Eredar's mastery over arcane spells was apparently superior to most/all other races Sargeras had encountered. Now, anyone can become a demon in the Burning Legion, regardless of ability.

tl;dr, arcane energy doesn't mean that a planet has a world-soul, but it doesn't mean there isn't one there, as well. The most we have to go on right now is what has been datamined.

[zezel81]

You do know Sargarus does not destroy worlds without souls. No point of an invasion, now I can see recruitment but no invasion. Sargarus goal is destroy plants that have old gods on them. It we be like saying you go to war with a another country and then start attacking other countries that have nothing to do with what you went to war for.

Argus most likely has a world soul and looks as though Sargarus did not out right kill the other titans as his original plan was.

[Lahis]

That's true. The ''Argus the Unmaker'' might just be a PH name or simply just be a contruct named after the planet. I'm really curious about it :P

I think it is a Titanforged built by Sargeras to watch over the planet as Legion's headguarters.

Though the lack of apparent fel corruption is curious. Could the construct be older than Legion, built by the Pantheon/Sargeras before the Legion when they were scouting the cosmos for World Souls? Aggramar did built a Titanforged (Grond) on Draenor to put some order into the Evergrowth, even though the planet didn't have a World Soul.

- - - Updated - - -

You do know Sargarus does not destroy worlds without souls. No point of an invasion, now I can see recruitment but no invasion. Sargarus goal is destroy plants that have old gods on them. It we be like saying you go to war with a another country and then start attacking other countries that have nothing to do with what you went to war for.

Argus most likely has a world soul and looks as though Sargarus did not out right kill the other titans as his original plan was.

Sargeras destroys every world regardless of whether they have world souls or not. He is not gonna give Void Lords any servants and breedign grounds on the physical universe.

Azeroth having a powerful World Soul just makes it a priority target.

[Aeula]

Why do people keep claiming that Argus has a World Soul?

Because The last boss of the Argus raid is highly suspected to be Argus' world soul since it's called Argus the Unmaker.

[Aucald]

I think it is a Titanforged built by Sargeras to watch over the planet as Legion's headguarters.

Though the lack of apparent fel corruption is curious. Could the construct be older than Legion, built by the Pantheon/Sargeras before the Legion when they were scouting the cosmos for World Souls? Aggramar did built a Titanforged (Grond) on Draenor to put some order into the Evergrowth, even though the planet didn't have a World Soul.

It seems curiously unfinished - one of its models, missing the elaborate helmet, is also missing the top part of its skull and has blue energy pouring out of it. There are also models labeled "TitanBuilder" that could be related - my thought was that Sargeras might be creating his own Pantheon of a sorts, building Avatar bodies to instill with corrupted Titan essences (including those of the original Pantheon is the Shivarran encounter in the 7.3 raid is kept as-is).

Sargeras destroys every world regardless of whether they have world souls or not. He is not gonna give Void Lords any servants and breedign grounds on the physical universe.

Azeroth having a powerful World Soul just makes it a priority target.

Some worlds, like Xoroth or Nathreza, are kept more or less intact and used as Legion strongholds. Azeroth is a priority both because it has a world-soul and because Sargeras is in love with it (as per the Scepter of Sargeras Artifact Lore text).

[Rend Blackhand]

Because The last boss of the Argus raid is highly suspected to be Argus' world soul since it's called Argus the Unmaker.

Titans can sense when a planet has a world soul. Aggramar did this when he found Azeroth and was also able to determine that Draenor did not have a soul. Sargeras would have known when he found Aarhus but there's no mention of this when he recruits the Eredar.

[Wildmoon]

While it's possible Argus had a world-soul from the datamined information/models in 7.3, Draenor should also be noted. It's confirmed in Chronicle Vol. 2 that Draenor doesn't have a world-soul, but there are ley lines there nonetheless. We search for them in Talador, establishing a network for the Kirin Tor. The planet also has an abundance of life energy, which caused the plant life to become sentient. Life/spirit energy is in the shamanistic branch of magic, but it's also the chi used by monks. Despite the fact that Draenor doesn't have a world-soul, the Arakkoa were excellent with arcane spells, and went on to teach the ogres (who, of course, were naturals at learning it, made from a Titan-made creation). Presumably, they were able to master arcane spells from the ley lines of Draenor.

Life as a cosmic force is actually listed as its own separated force connected to spirit element as much as Arcane is connected to earth element.

[Aucald]

Titans can sense when a planet has a world soul. Aggramar did this when he found Azeroth and was also able to determine that Draenor did not have a soul. Sargeras would have known when he found Aarhus but there's no mention of this when he recruits the Eredar.

It's something he might've kept to himself, though. The inhabitants of Argus would have no need for knowing their world was host to a Titan world-soul, and with them occupied with the Burning Crusade Sargeras could have a nascent Titan all his own to experiment upon. Not saying that will necessarily be the ultimate direction of it, though; just a possible line of speculation in keeping with what we know so far.

[Adalwolf]

Why do people keep claiming that Argus has a World Soul? Nowhere it is stated it has one.

Only World Souls were the Pantheon, that one unnamed and corrupted Sargeras destroyed and Azeroth.

Because Velen said so. I know those quests in Broken Shore were boring, but you should read them anyway.

[Aucald]

Because Velen said so. I know those quests in Broken Shore were boring, but you should read them anyway.

I don't recall Velen saying that Argus had a world-soul in any quest on the Broken Shore - do you have a link to the quest and/or its text?

[Caerule]

I don't recall Velen saying that Argus had a world-soul in any quest on the Broken Shore - do you have a link to the quest and/or its text?

It was actually on the front page of this website. Velen talks of his world's soul in the quest to kill Kil'Jaeden:


Of course at the time, it was thought he probably meant this metaphorically. Which may still be the case.

[Lahis]

Because Velen said so. I know those quests in Broken Shore were boring, but you should read them anyway.

I read every fuckign quest.

I've spent hours reading wowpedia.

I'm thinkign of buying the Chronicles.

I know the lore.

And never, ever has it been said that Argus has a WORLD Soul.