1. #1

    Getting blown away by Arms

    So sims are most likely ST that say they are close... i ran fury last night in heroic and other warrior ran arms. He was wayyyyyy ahead on most fights. Its not really player skill as in our mythic raids last tier we were tied in just about every fight (we both played fury)... anyone else seeing arms just rage everyone on the meters?

    Seriously debating switching now. Wasnt before.

    Single target fights werent so bad but the AOE ones i got blown out.
    Last edited by Roiids; 2017-06-29 at 04:24 PM.

  2. #2
    Seems like most if not all of the Warriors in the top 10 guilds on Wowprogress doing Mythic ToS seem to be playing Arms. It'll be interesting to see what the raid in 7.3 will favor.
    I have a Rhok'delar, jelly?

  3. #3
    It's about the exact same as the gap that existed between Fury and Arms in NH, except Fury gets 2 fights they're more useful on in ToS, and Arms got 1 in NH.

  4. #4
    More wondering if its because of the T19 nerf for fury... because we are both still using 4p T19 as of last night.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Roiids View Post
    More wondering if its because of the T19 nerf for fury... because we are both still using 4p T19 as of last night.
    For reference, my roommate is Fury and 1 ilvl above me (910 vs 911), has slightly less powerful legends, and is using T19. He sims around 950k. With 4pc, Legendary Helm, & Ring, I sim around 1.1m.

    This is exactly how I felt going into NH as Arms btw, so I know your pain. The big gap at this point exists on fights where Sweeping Strikes has a chance to shine, but also Fury is unable to capitalize. Desolate Host is a fantastic example, and probably the fight with the biggest gap between Arms & Fury (@90th Percentile for Heroic: Arms 1.25m Fury 1.05m). Being able to cleave an extended Execute phase onto the Host is something Fury just can't keep up with mechanically. Demonic Inquisition is another similar fight. Oddly enough though, Fury edges out Arms on Harjatan and Mistress because the target number and situation begins to favor Fury.

  6. #6
    Yeah it definitely is an NH reversal in the sense that arms is the "consistent" spec. If you look at the logs, on quite a few fights Fury is very close, but Fury relies on some insane Juggernaut stacks to pull those numbers while Arms can more consistently pull them. As long as Juggernaut is a huge core/contributor to Fury dps; I will prefer Arms. Screw that artifact trait, and screw whoever decided to make that a golden dragon over a talent.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Anbokr View Post
    Yeah it definitely is an NH reversal in the sense that arms is the "consistent" spec. If you look at the logs, on quite a few fights Fury is very close, but Fury relies on some insane Juggernaut stacks to pull those numbers while Arms can more consistently pull them. As long as Juggernaut is a huge core/contributor to Fury dps; I will prefer Arms. Screw that artifact trait, and screw whoever decided to make that a golden dragon over a talent.
    Agreed! Juggernaut is just aids.... worst thing ever when you have to do mechanics and lose stacks and etc... happens all the time. Real annoying.

  8. #8
    Juggernaut could be fixed by changing max stacks to 20, and adjusting the dps for it.

  9. #9
    Deleted
    i have the 4 set. its good for fury. unbelievable for arms. i dont mess around with tallents i have a build that i enjoy that does me well on most fights. the other warrior does and smashes me on most every fight. how ever i do hope the next tier favours fury. as much as i am enjoying arms right now fury is and always will be more fun. 4 million ms crits is good to see. but gameplay wise its not even close. expecting them to do something to make crit valuable for fury next tier too.

  10. #10
    I personally would like to change specs based on fights an assignments in those fights. But a lack of Arms legendaries keeps me from doing it bc dmg with fury on armsfights outperforms my gear atm.....
    I think being able to switch spec in a raid depending on the need is way cooler than...you need to play this spec bc the other spec is shit/broken/unusable.

  11. #11
    Dreadlord sjsctt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roiids View Post
    So sims are most likely ST that say they are close... i ran fury last night in heroic and other warrior ran arms. He was wayyyyyy ahead on most fights. Its not really player skill as in our mythic raids last tier we were tied in just about every fight (we both played fury)... anyone else seeing arms just rage everyone on the meters?

    Seriously debating switching now. Wasnt before.

    Single target fights werent so bad but the AOE ones i got blown out.
    When you say 'blown away'--how much are you getting beat by and on what fights?

    Fury isn't really tailored to these fights like arms is, though fury is still strong. It is absolutely inverse Nighthold, but fury at least has a fight or two.

  12. #12
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    Fury has no chance to catch up to Arms without RNG failing Arms and having rage-starve moments.

    Arms also has a viable talent arrangement that allows it for just as consistent, if not more consistent, damage than Fury.

    The problem with Arms is that Mastery (and Execute Ring) is so important that any piece of non-tier/legendary without mastery is a straight downgrade. Crafted gear is the best filler gear right now, especially for Arms. Once you get into Heroic/Mythic ToS crafted gear may fall off.

    Now that Crit is a useless stat for Fury, it lost all of its consistent overall damage for burst. Arms requiring only mastery gear has both consistency and burst depending on talent choices.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Ragnokk View Post
    Juggernaut could be fixed by changing max stacks to 20, and adjusting the dps for it.
    It would be better if Juggernaut just made Execute cause enrage and gave it the same extra-rage spending treatment as Arms. There was no reason to give Execute a different mechanic for Fury and Arms. Completely failure on the dev's part.

    If they removed Rampage entirely and made it so Execute required, at minimum, as much rage as the target's health down to 20rage (20%-100%) it would be more engaging.
    Last edited by ImpTaimer; 2017-07-01 at 08:17 PM.
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  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by ImpTaimer View Post
    It would be better if Juggernaut just made Execute cause enrage and gave it the same extra-rage spending treatment as Arms. There was no reason to give Execute a different mechanic for Fury and Arms. Completely failure on the dev's part.

    If they removed Rampage entirely and made it so Execute required, at minimum, as much rage as the target's health down to 20rage (20%-100%) it would be more engaging.
    Wait, so you're suggesting something like at 100% execute costs 100 rage and at <20% it costs 20 rage?
    Thats actually fairly intresting, making fury play quicker and quicker the further down the hp goes.
    I just think it would make rage spending on aoe kinda awkward

  14. #14
    Deleted
    We're not really spending that much rage on aoe outside of BC tho ... I wouldn't be opposed to losing rampage for aoe if it meant actually doing something with our executes / juggernaut.

    That's a neat idea indeed

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptnTorpedo View Post
    We're not really spending that much rage on aoe outside of BC tho ... I wouldn't be opposed to losing rampage for aoe if it meant actually doing something with our executes / juggernaut.

    That's a neat idea indeed
    We're spending just as much rage on aoe as on ST, we just doing gain as much.

  16. #16
    Deleted
    How can we spend as much if we don't gain as much tho ?

    Same thing anyways

  17. #17
    I was playing fury since the start of Legion, and switched to arms now, and I do a better dps even though I am more skilled at playing fury than arms. Juggernaut is the biggest problem of fury right now, it is killing the spec.

  18. #18
    For Mythic+ and any raid fight where there are consistently more than one target, sweeping strikes with mortal combo is something fury just can't keep up with IMO.

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