Remember when Blizzard used to create huge, flat zones?

[Deleted]

With everyone having a mount and them being faster than they used to (tho not much), and having flight master's whistle, I do think bigger flat areas would be nice! We don't need that cramped stuff, also I personally hate all small branches and rocks that block my running.

[Wildberry]

Actually, you have gotten too used to the current kill-quest design, because if you are asked to kill 15 eagles and they are spread out on the entire map, finding 15 might actually take some time and players normally hate that. This is a design, that is as old as WoD and went back all the way to vanilla. Blizzard have only resently been reducing the amount of spread when it comes to quest mobs.

No, I haven't really gotten too used to the current kill-quest design, considering I like them more in BC/Wrath areas every time I go through. Spread mobs are fine, and a much better alternative to packing them in a small, high-traffic area.

The only problem with on rails questing is if you are being forced to go along a specific path way too long. This is normally being countered by having several points in the questing experience, where you are given several quest to go into different areas. Doing 4-6 quests, which are on rails, can be pretty good and it allows for short stories to be told in between. Completly removing the rails can often lead to a feeling of no connection: That all the quests really have nothing to do with each other and makes the player lose connection to the quests and questlines.

No, there are a plethora of problems with on rails questing. It removes player freedom, saps character out of zones, diminishes replay value, etc. On rails questing is so awful, that the list could go on for a while.

Interesting that you claim "Questing on rails" can lead to a feeling of no connection, and imply that removing the rails is synonymous with making quests entirely detached from one another. Questing on rails does that very thing between zones. Within zones, pre-rails, we were connected to quests, quests told stories, and quests were interconnected. Dragonblight is a shining example of this.

Just like people love freedom, it can also create problems, Just look up people who have a bad experience with a game like Skyrim and you will see why no-rails can be a huge problem when it comes to game-design.

So because a few idiots bought an open world RPG and stumbled, means we should dilute our MMORPG to accommodate the same crowd of room-temperature IQ knuckle-draggers? No thanks.

[Darktbs]

Yes, they do. They're not the entire world. Dense forests, and small forests can be done right, without terrain being a vertical terrain nightmare and an amusement park. Look at, say, Grizzly Hills for example.

Zones like Azsuna, Gogrond, etc. are amusment parks, not zones. They completely lack the feeling of an organic region. Instead, it's blatantly obvious that terrain is intended to be part of the gameplay, and the RPG aspect of this game suffers for it.

It's funny that so many posters in this thread claim that larger, flat zones were designed to slow people down. What in the Hell do they think zones in Draenor/Broken Isles are designed to do?

Neither are Flat zones.Seriously, Legion is the first expansion to not introduce a "Flat Zone" and considering the themes of the zones, i say with good reason, also, you throw that amusement park here and there alot without much context.

Honestly, i wonder how the fuck did you find Azsuna a terrain Nightmare.

But these zones have a theme, some of then are dense Forests that if you leave the roads you might get lost, mountains with underground passages, rocky terrains that are "hard" to travel on, the remains of a ruined zone, high mountains you are not supposed to go without flying so on and so forth, they accomplish what they are supposed to , they may not give YOU the feel of what a region should be but thats subjective.

Yes the examples that i gave early are not the entire world, and neither are flat zones, but guess what, the Broken Shore are a part of the world where they exist.

RPG aspect of this game suffers for it.

What RPG aspect a flat zone accomplish that others don't?

It's funny that so many posters in this thread claim that larger, flat zones were designed to slow people down. What in the Hell do they think zones in Draenor/Broken Isles are designed to do?

Actually have some "dificulty" in the process, rather then just Tilesets and Terrain modeling.Some require itens, have objects in the way, require flying and so on.

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If people actually regularly struggle finding mobs with all of the UI improvements these days, they're legitimately too stupid for me to care about their opinion.

Its funny you say that, considering you appear to struggle when you call"vertical terrain nightmare" .

[artline]

I don't know about you guys but I miss those days. This is not just a Blizzard thing too, it seems lots of MMOs suffer from this. Smaller areas with more, compacted content. However, I think this takes away from the "world" feel. Think about the Barrens, think about how wide open that area is, and you won't bump into a mob every 10 feet..



Mulgore, although not the best example, has huge, rolling plains:



Tanaris, massive desert.



Westfall, open plains



And now, we have this:

Cramped zones with rocks and mountains placed perfectly to force you to go around them:



Sharp rocks and mountains, with little or no view



And now in Argus, more of the same:



Does anyone else crave lush, flat fields with a massive view distance like I do? Because I dont know about you but the landscape design in Legion drove me nuts. Some mountains felt like puzzles..

EXACTLY it was so relaxing and cool enjoy a huge world instead of this apartments blizzard give us nowdays... you could walk enjoy the place, soundtrack everything!!!
Now it seems we are on obstacle races with only mountains and everything super compacted...

[Wildberry]

Neither are Flat zones.Seriously, Legion is the first expansion to not introduce a "Flat Zone" and considering the themes of the zones, i say with good reason, also, you throw that amusement park here and there alot without much context.

I never claimed that flat zones are the entirety of the world. Only that not having them like Legion (Draenor to a lesser extent) is a bad thing. I use "amusement park" as a descriptor, because WoW zones have devolved into nothing but various POIs with no actual world in between. Questing on rails is also partly responsible for this, but cramped zones where terrain is treated as a gameplay element are just as responsible.

Honestly, i wonder how the fuck did you find Azsuna a terrain Nightmare.

Are you actually going to try and claim that Aszuna isn't a clusterfuck of jumbled vertical terrain? The zone's an absolute eyesore.

But these zones have a theme, some of then are dense Forests that if you leave the roads you might get lost, mountains with underground passages, rocky terrains that are "hard" to travel on, the remains of a ruined zone, high mountains you are not supposed to go without flying so on and so forth, they accomplish what they are supposed to , they may not give YOU the feel of what a region should be but thats subjective.

So it's objective until it isn't? Wonderful.

What RPG aspect a flat zone accomplish that others don't?

Amusement *clap* Parks. They're cramped, clearly designed to funnel the player into certain routes, offer little to no flexibility. It's like the questing path was designed first, and the zone was built around it, tailored specifically to a single play through.

Actually have some "dificulty" in the process, rather then just Tilesets and Terrain modeling.Some require itens, have objects in the way, require flying and so on.

Wow, that's neat. So did zones like Icecrown, Storm Peaks, Vot4W, etc. which were all far better than the garbage we've seen in the last two expansions.

Its funny you say that, considering you appear to struggle when you call"vertical terrain nightmare" .

I play a DK and DH. On the Demon Hunter, I can skip everything. On the DK, unglyphed Wraith Walk gets stuck on pebbles. Nice try though, fam.

[Mirishka]

I disagree. I like it when it feels like an actual world. You know, wilderness? Far away from anyone or anything?

Except there's no single 'rule' regarding the terrain of an actual world. I've seen flat open areas like you seem to want, and I've been in places (canyons, hiking, etc) that are jagged and difficult to navigate with steep rock walls, annoying paths, etc. And everything in between.

If the only 'actual world' you've ever seen is flat, plains-style areas, you need to get out more.

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Are you actually going to try and claim that Aszuna isn't a clusterfuck of jumbled vertical terrain? The zone's an absolute eyesore.

Oh hey, its the 'my opinion is better than your opinion' guy.

[Wildberry]

Oh hey, its the 'my opinion is better than your opinion' guy.

You're free to like the way Azsuna looks. You're not free to claim that there's not an abundance of vertical terrain.

Why do you always seem to confuse a statement with a fact and opinion, with statements containing only opinion?

[Coffeh]

I wish I could upvote the OP. Vanilla WoW world actually looked like a real world. Huge, open areas. Vast, flat landscapes. Guess what...in a real world not every square inch is cluttered. It's ok to have empty spaces. Broken Isles looks pretty; I'll give the art department props...but the zone layouts are horrible. Everything is tight and congested. You can't walk two feet without running into an npc. And the zones are just tiny. I think the entire landmass is about 1/3rd the size of Northrend.

Bring back the people who designed vanilla zones please. Or even TBC and Wrath zones. Those were still pretty good.

[TheHodedOne]

I wish I could upvote the OP. Vanilla WoW world actually looked like a real world. Huge, open areas. Vast, flat landscapes. Guess what...in a real world not every square inch is cluttered. It's ok to have empty spaces. Broken Isles looks pretty; I'll give the art department props...but the zone layouts are horrible. Everything is tight and congested. You can't walk two feet without running into an npc. And the zones are just tiny. I think the entire landmass is about 1/3rd the size of Northrend.

Bring back the people who designed vanilla zones please. Or even TBC and Wrath zones. Those were still pretty good.

Exactly. They went lazy and made the maps smaller which altered the space sense of the game.

[Mafic]

I don't know about you guys but I miss those days. This is not just a Blizzard thing too, it seems lots of MMOs suffer from this. Smaller areas with more, compacted content. However, I think this takes away from the "world" feel. Think about the Barrens, think about how wide open that area is, and you won't bump into a mob every 10 feet..



Mulgore, although not the best example, has huge, rolling plains:



Tanaris, massive desert.



Westfall, open plains



And now, we have this:

Cramped zones with rocks and mountains placed perfectly to force you to go around them:



Sharp rocks and mountains, with little or no view



And now in Argus, more of the same:



Does anyone else crave lush, flat fields with a massive view distance like I do? Because I dont know about you but the landscape design in Legion drove me nuts. Some mountains felt like puzzles..

I agree.

Worst of all is that Broken Shore is immersion breaking as it isn't realistic. Argus is a fantasy world so they can do as they wish.

[Phookah]

I disagree. I like it when it feels like an actual world. You know, wilderness? Far away from anyone or anything?

I like it when the actual world doesn't just feel like Nebraska.

[Darktbs]

I never claimed that flat zones are the entirety of the world. Only that not having them like Legion (Draenor to a lesser extent) is a bad thing.

This is Subjective, i can make the same argument with Underwater zones, non-fly zones and so forth.

I use "amusement park" as a descriptor, because WoW zones have devolved into nothing but various POIs with no actual world in between. Questing on rails is also partly responsible for this, but cramped zones where terrain is treated as a gameplay element are just as responsible.

In other words, you do quests in convenient places without much traveling.

Are you actually going to try and claim that Aszuna isn't a clusterfuck of jumbled vertical terrain? The zone's an absolute eyesore.

I did...

So it's objective until it isn't? Wonderful.

Well...a zone accomplishe what is meant to do is objective.But when you say "i don't like it" it no longer is.Yes is a wonderfull thing.

Amusement *clap* Parks. They're cramped, clearly designed to funnel the player into certain routes, offer little to no flexibility. It's like the questing path was designed first, and the zone was built around it, tailored specifically to a single play through.

Just like every quest in this game history.

Wow, that's neat. So did zones like Icecrown, Storm Peaks, Vot4W, etc. which were all far better than the garbage we've seen in the last two expansions.

Subjective.


I play a DK and DH. On the Demon Hunter, I can skip everything. On the DK, unglyphed Wraith Walk gets stuck on pebbles. Nice try though, fam.[/QUOTE]
Not shure what that has to do with anything but i will bite, i main a dk without the Glyph and do just fine.

[ComputerNerd]

Flat gives freedom but has a lack of variety.
Sculpted has variety but restricts freedom.
There are pros and cons to both, and I think content which has a mixture works best.
I don't think all areas of a zone should be something that while experienced on ground mounts should be instantly accessible from every direction, but I think there is an upper limit to how difficult it should be to locate a route.
Those accessible via only a single route, and a difficult to locate one at that can be very problematic.
Less problematic if an entirely optional area, but when it is heavily involved in quests or storyline, then that just slows people down and forces more travel and accidental discoveries.
Exploration should be about what you find during enjoyable travel, not that deemed simply necessary as a means to an end trying to get somewhere else.

[jackofwind]

All rather large, realisticly flat land

A zone composed of a series of plateaus is not the same thing as a flat zone.

[FelPlague]

A zone composed of a series of plateaus is not the same thing as a flat zone.

still, it is boreing/unrealistic to get 1-2 zones every expansion that is nothing but flat...
Nagrand would be considered flat, yes it has caves and hills and crevices but overall it is very flat

[lolpve]

Open spaces mean you are having the wrong kind of fun, which is bad. You need to be having the right kind of fun.

[Fabinas]

still, it is boreing/unrealistic to get 1-2 zones every expansion that is nothing but flat...
Nagrand would be considered flat, yes it has caves and hills and crevices but overall it is very flat

Calling Nagrand "flat" when the pinnacle of its discoveries were the glider puzzles....

[Deleted]

I completely agree. Especially if they want to keep forcing non-flight zones on us.

The Legion zones were absolute hell to traverse outside of the quest bread crum. I hate how the areas were designed. Flying was a relief when i finally got it.

[FelPlague]

Calling Nagrand "flat" when the pinnacle of its discoveries were the glider puzzles....

3 of them were in the ocean, and the other 2 were both at the mountain in the top right of the map, in comparison to a place like highmountain, nagrand is very very flat

[Tehterokkar]

They are still doing far better than their closest competing MMO, FFXIV.

That game is absolutely horrible if you want to "feel" the world.

Everything is "instanced", there are invisible walls EVERYWHERE, heck, even the main cities have loading screens between different sections of them. It was one of the biggest turn-offs about the game, as with all recent Asian MMOs. Each zone is an instance with a loading screen. And each zone is surrounded by "unpassable trees" or high mountains. There is nothing realistic or immersive about them.

The true beauty of WoW is that it is a sandbox. You can go literally anywhere if you want to. Jump off the Stormwind Harbor and swim to Westfall? You can do that. Climb to the top of the highest peak of Highmountain and jump off in a 30s freefall to Suramar? You can do that. Granted there are areas(mostly the space that is meant to be deliberately empty) where you get fatigue bar, but I think that is a good place to draw the line at.

Looking at Broken Isles, or any other piece of land we've encountered in the past expansions, there is nothing preventing you from going to different zones freely as the geometry of the world allows. Climbing mountains with tricks with Mounts, Disengage shenigans, Gliders, Gnomish Gravity Wells, or even Levitate in Vanilla/TBC was something people loved to do.