Ferocious vs Cruel gear... difference?

[Deleted]

Sorry, perhaps it's an obvious question, but I couldn't find the answer anywhere. I noticed they both have the same visuals and are both either Gladiator or Combatant gear. I don't understand the difference between the two. They're both current season gear, right? Can anyone elaborate on this?

[Krusza]

Sorry, perhaps it's an obvious question, but I couldn't find the answer anywhere. I noticed they both have the same visuals and are both either Gladiator or Combatant gear. I don't understand the difference between the two. They're both current season gear, right? Can anyone elaborate on this?

The way gear works in Legion can be a bit confusing.

Basically, Cruel is last season gear and Ferocious is the current season. The same gear appearance is used for 2 seasons (probably because there's double the amount of seasons than any other expansion in Legion) so that's why that's the case.

Gear is basically tiered as follows:

Combatant's Gear
Gladiator Gear
Elite Gladiator Gear

The thing you're probably seeing is that some cruel gladiator pieces have more iLvl than ferocious combatant gear.

Combant's gear is given to low ilvl players. Gladiator gear is then given to anyone above that iLvl threshold (not sure what it is exactly) and it will increase in iLvl with your highest rating in any bracket, as follows:

0-1399
1400-1599
1600-1799
1800-1999
(elite gear starts) 2000-2199
2200-2399
2400+

So if someone had elite Cruel gear it'll be better than unrated Ferocious gear despite it being an older season. Cruel gladiator gear will probably be better than/same as ferocious combatant's too.

[Caolela]

OP, didn't you get the memo that came when you bought Legion that: "Gear Doesn't Matter!™"??

[Deleted]

OP, didn't you get the memo that came when you bought Legion that: "Gear Doesn't Matter!™"??

Maybe he disregarded it as fake news, since that's what it is.

[Alvito]

OP, didn't you get the memo that came when you bought Legion that: "Gear Doesn't Matter!™"??

Outside of instanced pvp it absolutely does. In instanced pvp it is up to a 15% buff.

[Caolela]

Outside of instanced pvp it absolutely does. In instanced pvp it is up to a 15% buff.

Yeah, I guess you missed the sarcasm there.

[Krusza]

Outside of instanced pvp it absolutely does. In instanced pvp it is up to a 15% buff.

No, everyone is scaled up to 900 ilvl as a minimum.

Yeah, I guess you missed the sarcasm there.

Caolela is one of those people that still thinks he dies to people because they have 1% more stats than him. Ignore him, one of those US players.

[Teri]

No, everyone is scaled up to 900 ilvl as a minimum.

900 minimum yes, but there's people at 935 already which certainly will be a bit more powerful in instanced pvp even while they got no direct control over their crit/haste/mastery etc etc.

[Alvito]

No, everyone is scaled up to 900 ilvl as a minimum.



Caolela is one of those people that still thinks he dies to people because they have 1% more stats than him. Ignore him, one of those US players.

Not true since the last patch.

[Caolela]

Caolela is one of those people that still thinks he dies to people because they have 1% more stats than him. Ignore him, one of those US players.

What? Oh you're pulling more fantasies from your backside again because I've destroyed your fanboy "arguments"?

I guess some people don't know when to shut up and fuck off, but...I'm really not interested in your troll posts, Krassz. It was boring months ago.

[Kagthul]

No, everyone is scaled up to 900 ilvl as a minimum.

Uhh... so you really have no clue how the PvP system works.

The Template is calculated as if you are iLevel 900, and then your template modifiers are applied (Agility X%, Stam X%) based around that number....

But your BONUS STATS from gear are still calculated from the iLevel 800 floor. So, if you are iLevel 930, you have the base template... and 13% more stats.

Caolela is one of those people that still thinks he dies to people because they have 1% more stats than him. Ignore him, one of those US players.

He at least understand how the system actually works, and understands that it's a LOT more tha 1%.

I did a full breakdown (with links to blue posts confirming how it actually works) a month or three back.

From someone sitting at the average iLevel (which, a few weeks ago, was ~860 or so, depending on class - info right here on the front page of MMO champ, in case you're wondering), someone with a full slate of PvP gear + a maxed out artifact ends up quite a bit more like... +20-35% more STAM, +7-10% more stats (that multiplies with the stam bonus from traits), + whatever stat bonuses and power differential is generated by the actual effects of the traits themselves, which are ALL active in PvP now.

the TLR version was that the power gap between an average joe and a fully-geared player is actually closer to DOUBLE what it was in WoD between an Honor-geared Player and a CQ geared player.

Welcome to Legion.

You were lied to.

[Krusza]

snip

Yes, exactly. No one is 800 iLvl anymore. The gap is pretty much the same as 890 iLvl is easily achievable in a few days of playing.

Double, are you serious?

Unless they're playing for 1 hour a week, nearly everyone has AT LEAST 890 iLvl. There's no way you can't. Also, AK40 is so quick to get you catch up so quickly.

I've leveled an alt recently. I barely played it and I didn't even farm AK or gear, it took me about 5 days to get to 876 ilvl with concordance. All I really did was a few BGs every day. A few people I know who actually tried to gear and farm AK did the same in a day or two.

iLvl statistics aren't really relevant, a lot of them are probably abandoned alts or people that quit. What you're comparing is the equivalent of AH blue gear you got after dinging to maxed out 2400+ elite gear. The difference there is NOTHING compared to what it would've been in any other expansion.

You're literally comparing someone who doesn't play the game to someone who actually plays it and is good at it. Obviously there's going to be a difference. The difference is still negligible compared to any other expansion.

There's a 4% stat difference between my 876 alt and my main with 918. That's below honor gear iLvl vs 2200+ Elite Gear ilvl.

When someone is bad enough that they can't even break rating for gear that's the reason why they're dying to 2200+ players with a few % more stats. Anyone below 880 is literally someone who plays for an hour a week.

When you joined in greens in any other expansion you would literally get instagibbed by anything, that's not even close to being the case anymore.

- - - Updated - - -

What? Oh you're pulling more fantasies from your backside again because I've destroyed your fanboy "arguments"?

I guess some people don't know when to shut up and fuck off, but...I'm really not interested in your troll posts, Krassz. It was boring months ago.

You didn't "destroy" anyone's arguments.

It reminds me of that saying "Arguing with idiots is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter how good you are, the bird is going to shit on the board and strut around like it won anyway"

That pretty much summed up your argument of "EVERY ARENA PLAYER WHO IS HIGHER THAN ME IS A CHEATER AHAHAHA I WON I WON I WON" "REMEMBER WHEN I SAID LEGION WOULD BE BAD BECAUSE OF GEAR HAHAHAHAHA I WAS RIGHT"... but the issue with Legion is the gameplay, not the gear. Literally the only people crying about gear are clueless casuals. You come to this forum to brag about how "you told us so" when you gave no reasons why Legion would be bad, just that it would. That's hardly anything to brag about.

Even a moderator messaged me about how he doesn't understand how I didn't get more angry with you, and people like you.

It sounds like a thing you'd hear when you were 9 years old. You know those kids that were too retarded to realize they lost an argument and re-assured themselves and everyone around them a million times "they won".

The fact a 40 year old man thinks that is argumentation is extremely worrying. You don't even play this game so I don't even know why you're still here.

[Caolela]

Didn't think you'd come back for more embarrassment on things you were utterly wrecked about months ago, but since you insist on being a glutton for punishment I'll oblige you.

So here are some of your lies and bullshit misinfo:

I didn't talk about arena in that way and rarely discussed arena at all (except how cheating in other PvP areas carries into arena too), since I've done very little arena ever in WoW. It's boring, brainless deathmatch and doesn't require much "skill", though the ADD kids would like others to think it does. We just saw further evidence from the thread I posted on the WoW Euro Cup that had pathetic viewership and everyone in that string said it's boring as hell to watch as e-sport. Yet Blizz keeps pushing it.

I talked about RBG cheats/hacks/scripting which most knew was extremely rampant in MoP and WoD, and that I saw myself hundreds of times. Posted many links that proved it. Maybe the cheating has changed some in Legion but I don't see any reason that it would, except for much lower participation. The only people who tried to deny it were either the ones benefiting from it or were totally clueless. You were in one of those two categories.

But here you are, trying to dredge that up in a screwball way as if it somehow distracts from Legion's asshattery.

BTW, that mod, which I doubt even happened, was likely coddling you so you'd back off on the trolling/shitposting and saved you from an infraction/ban. But talk is cheap and if he had something to say about me, he should have said it openly here or PM'ed me.



"You come to this forum to brag about how "you told us so" when you gave no reasons why Legion would be bad, just that it would."


Kagthul, Mafic, rda, and myself (maybe a few I'm forgetting) warned people about Legion with plenty of reasons and examples that were fully supported, in dozens of threads, and have proven to be true now these several months later.

1) We talked about templates and gearing and the hidden results from it, and how the "gear doesn't matter!" hype was a lie, as Kag just pointed out again for the umpteenth time.

2) We talked about all-RNG, the AP wep grind, pruning and how they would adversely affect the PvP base. Then it happened.

3) We talked about how shortly into Legion the ladder collapsed, and the effect all of the above had on the pyramid of players that Rated is built upon being destroyed.

I think anyone who has been on this forum since then, and being honest, would have to agree.

Except of course you (and a few other hardcore delusionals), because you can't math and/or won't admit that Blizz screwed the pooch for profits and fucked the vast majority (80%+) of PvPers over to do it. It's also true that some people don't like being told that they've been played for suckers, especially since WoD/Assran was so hated they thought Legion could only be better. kek

FYI - I'm not 40 and do in fact play WoW, so those are more inventions that emanated from Uranus. I have 27 toons across 5 realms atm from lvl 100 to 19 or less. For very good reasons above, I don't play the abomination that is Legion endgame PvP.

Did I say this was boring? Yeah it still is. Like I said...you should learn when to shut up and fuck off.

[Krusza]

Didn't think you'd come back for more embarrassment on things you were utterly wrecked about months ago, but since you insist on being a glutton for punishment I'll oblige you.

So here are some of your lies and bullshit misinfo:

I didn't talk about arena in that way and rarely discussed arena at all (except how cheating in other PvP areas carries into arena too), since I've done very little arena ever in WoW. It's boring, brainless deathmatch and doesn't require much "skill", though the ADD kids would like others to think it does. We just saw further evidence from the thread I posted on the WoW Euro Cup that had pathetic viewership and everyone in that string said it's boring as hell to watch as e-sport. Yet Blizz keeps pushing it.

I talked about RBG cheats/hacks/scripting which most knew was extremely rampant in MoP and WoD, and that I saw myself hundreds of times. Posted many links that proved it. Maybe the cheating has changed some in Legion but I don't see any reason that it would, except for much lower participation. The only people who tried to deny it were either the ones benefiting from it or were totally clueless. You were in one of those two categories.

But here you are, trying to dredge that up in a screwball way as if it somehow distracts from Legion's asshattery.

BTW, that mod, which I doubt even happened, was likely coddling you so you'd back off on the trolling/shitposting and saved you from an infraction/ban. But talk is cheap and if he had something to say about me, he should have said it openly here or PM'ed me.



"You come to this forum to brag about how "you told us so" when you gave no reasons why Legion would be bad, just that it would."


Kagthul, Mafic, rda, and myself (maybe a few I'm forgetting) warned people about Legion with plenty of reasons and examples that were fully supported, in dozens of threads, and have proven to be true now these several months later.

1) We talked about templates and gearing and the hidden results from it, and how the "gear doesn't matter!" hype was a lie, as Kag just pointed out again for the umpteenth time.

2) We talked about all-RNG, the AP wep grind, pruning and how they would adversely affect the PvP base. Then it happened.

3) We talked about how shortly into Legion the ladder collapsed, and the effect all of the above had on the pyramid of players that Rated is built upon being destroyed.

I think anyone who has been on this forum since then, and being honest, would have to agree.

Except of course you (and a few other hardcore delusionals), because you can't math and/or won't admit that Blizz screwed the pooch for profits and fucked the vast majority (80%+) of PvPers over to do it. It's also true that some people don't like being told that they've been played for suckers, especially since WoD/Assran was so hated they thought Legion could only be better. kek

FYI - I'm not 40 and do in fact play WoW, so those are more inventions that emanated from Uranus. I have 27 toons across 5 realms atm from lvl 100 to 19 or less. For very good reasons above, I don't play the abomination that is Legion endgame PvP.

Did I say this was boring? Yeah it still is. Like I said...you should learn when to shut up and fuck off.

You didn't "punish" anyone you utter down's syndrome. You're the most clueless fuck I've ever seen in 12 years of this game.

Those 3 things never happened. Gear really doesn't matter, it's only deluded 1800 US players such as yourself that think so. People like you really don't grasp anything about the game at all, you can't conceive of reasons you died other than 2% stats. I've already addressed Kagthul's horseshit assumptions of the player being "860 ilvl" which is passable in a day of playing. I also said about how I leveled an alt and it didn't take any effort to get it first concordance rank and 876 ilvl which is a 4% stat difference to my main at 918 ilvl. That's nothing.

Then again, you thought you couldn't break 1800 in RBGs because of cheaters, so you probably really have deluded yourself into believing you're doing terrible because someone has 4% more stats than you.

AP-grind is bad, but it's easy to catch up on now, nerfed concordance means each rank is a minimal increase and it doesn't make a huge difference once you have the 1st rank.

And the ladder never collapsed. I don't know where you got that info from.

I'm not defending Legion, I think it's a horseshit expansion. Not for the reasons you believe so, though.

Most people would agree because most people on this forum are in fact clueless casuals/bads like yourself, people that've played hundreds of RBGs and can't even nail their PvE rotation it takes to pass 1800. Hence why I rarely use it anymore.

Can't wait for you to claim you won again. "2 people agree with me therefore I'm right!!! I won!! I won!! You got punished!!"

Probably one of the most dense people I've ever met in my life, as with 90% of people on this forum. Guess this is why US players are so awful on average.

[Caolela]

Told you I'm not interested in your trolling. It's all been said before (even a year ago). Every one of the idiotic, invented points you just posted, including the attacks and assumptions about me, have been shot down long ago. But for some psychotic reason you persist and repeat yourself, like most Blizz fanboys do because that's all you've got.

You should find a shrink, get something for your illness then shuffle along.

[Resentless]

No, everyone is scaled up to 900 ilvl as a minimum. .

Not quite sure about that one. While we have 900 ilvl equivalent base stats, theres still a 1% increase in those stats from ilvl 800 every 10 ilvl onwards. Gear didn't matter at the start but it's starting to matter more now (not that it's hard to get... My rogue got to 880 ilvl in 6 hrs max lvl playtime).

[Seditian]

As people said, elite gear drops at 2k rating. But while farming towards that, I got an elite piece as weekly reward at 1915 already. People on voice said the chance on elite pieces only increases at 2k, it is possible to get it earlier. I personally don't believe that, as I didn't get a single elite piece before 2k last season (and had 100+ RBG wins, so easily 40 items).

Did they change something with season 4? Is the weekly reward an exception?

E: About ilvl in PvP: it doesn't matter as much. And doesn't even come close to the influence trait levels bring.

[Resentless]

As people said, elite gear drops at 2k rating. But while farming towards that, I got an elite piece as weekly reward at 1915 already. People on voice said the chance on elite pieces only increases at 2k, it is possible to get it earlier. I personally don't believe that, as I didn't get a single elite piece before 2k last season (and had 100+ RBG wins, so easily 40 items).

Did they change something with season 4? Is the weekly reward an exception?

E: About ilvl in PvP: it doesn't matter as much. And doesn't even come close to the influence trait levels bring.

You sure you got an elite piece below 2k? That seems like a bug if so.

[Seditian]

You sure you got an elite piece below 2k? That seems like a bug if so.

100% sure.

Completely uncropped screenshot:

http://i.imgur.com/lnvTZtI.png
http://i.imgur.com/KJH4IFl.png

[Krusza]

100% sure.

Completely uncropped screenshot:

http://i.imgur.com/lnvTZtI.png
http://i.imgur.com/KJH4IFl.png

It's probably just a bug. I've never heard/seen anyone get elite below 2k.

I don't think it's just "increasing the chance" above 2k either since I get fully decked out elite gear pretty quickly.

- - - Updated - - -

Not quite sure about that one. While we have 900 ilvl equivalent base stats, theres still a 1% increase in those stats from ilvl 800 every 10 ilvl onwards. Gear didn't matter at the start but it's starting to matter more now (not that it's hard to get... My rogue got to 880 ilvl in 6 hrs max lvl playtime).

Yeah, exactly. If you actually do the best methods to gain gear and farm AP, you can get to 890ish in a couple of days.

That's why the guy's earlier methods of saying "the average ilvl being 860" is inaccurate.