What made classic wow better than current?

[FreshKamel]

Apart from the fact that everything was new and exciting there's ONE thing I miss about the game back then;

End game and raids wasn't everything.
Levelling took a longtime and every level felt like a proper part of the game

There's not enough interesting for me to do at end-level as a non-raider, so I honestly wish levelling just took a longer time. Let the adventure be there, and then the hardcore raiders can hardcore farm their way to the highest level.

There's no need for the rest of us to be in a rush.

[Deleted]

Customization and open world.

It was fun making a tank shaman or a melee mage.. you could focus on DPS and make a glass cannon with almost no HP or a tanky monster.

Also everything wasn't spoonfed.. only like less than 1% raided and all content was relevant all the time.

Oh and no flying too, I hate flying:P Thats a personal note though..

[Eleccybubb]

Apart from the fact that everything was new and exciting there's ONE thing I miss about the game back then;

End game and raids wasn't everything.
Levelling took a longtime and every level felt like a proper part of the game

There's not enough interesting for me to do at end-level as a non-raider, so I honestly wish levelling just took a longer time. Let the adventure be there, and then the hardcore raiders can hardcore farm their way to the highest level.

There's no need for the rest of us to be in a rush.

Thing is though do you think if they had kept that formula all the way to 110 it would have worked? Think of how long it took in Vanilla and apply it to almost double the levels. It would kill any desire to have alts.

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Customization and open world.

It was fun making a tank shaman or a melee mage.. you could focus on DPS and make a glass cannon with almost no HP or a tanky monster.

Also everything wasn't spoonfed.. only like less than 1% raided and all content was relevant all the time.

Oh and no flying too, I hate flying:P Thats a personal note though..

Which even Blizzard admitted was stupid as hell.

[zezel81]

I believe the mystery of not really knowing where to go.
Gold was worth more, a purple was epic, tier gear was admired, community, more challenging to get around(made world feel big), played how you liked(as in blizzard never new south shore was going to be a bg in itself), PvP server u could not transfer from PVE to PvP so you had to go through a right of passage, weapon leveling(you could not just hey going this made it part of you), talent build made it more part of you, and players could ninja loot(pretty much let it be dangerous) still ninja loot happens on group loot.

Good things that came from expansions glyphs, flying, new classes, races, mythic+, and arena.

LFR- killed the mysterious about raiding making tier almost meh. I understand I pay 15 dollars thing but Blizzard doesn't hold you back you yourself. I would be ok with two difficulties normal and heroic. Ilvl has went crazy and purple is not really epic anymore.
The WoW will make worse feel great about themselves and good players feel bad. Why? Good player decides to do heroic raid and bad player decides to LFR. Now good player get som 915ilvl and bad gets lucky and gets 950. Then bad player out ilvl good player. The good player wants to get better but relies on rng and cannot. So good player is doing everything he/she can but nothing.

[FreshKamel]

Thing is though do you think if they had kept that formula all the way to 110 it would have worked? Think of how long it took in Vanilla and apply it to almost double the levels. It would kill any desire to have alts.

I know, I know. This is absolutely fair. Personally I'd love it, but I know I'm not a majority of the player base, so it's not Blizz' fault, just my taste's.

[Kuntantee]

Again your opinion. I can still go after specific stats for each of my classes. Also you really want to tell me Mastery is worthless for a Resto Shaman? Considering it increases my healing against lower hp targets I'd say it's very unique.

You really want to tell me Crit cap wouldn't give me a better experience as Frost mage if I didn't have that 33.3%? Because it bloody wouldn't considering Frost needs it for it's procs.

Nothing I said here is an opinion. Those are facts. And Rogue doesn't need haste, nor it would do a jackshit even if you stack it. How about that?

[Eleccybubb]

I believe the mystery of not really knowing where to go.
Gold was worth more, a purple was epic, tier gear was admired, community, more challenging to get around(made world feel big), played how you liked(as in blizzard never new south shore was going to be a bg in itself), PvP server u could not transfer from PVE to PvP so you had to go through a right of passage, weapon leveling(you could not just hey going this made it part of you), talent build made it more part of you, and players could ninja loot(pretty much let it be dangerous) still ninja loot happens on group loot.

Good things that came from expansions glyphs, flying, new classes, races, mythic+, and arena.

LFR- killed the mysterious about raiding making tier almost meh. I understand I pay 15 dollars thing but Blizzard doesn't hold you back you yourself. I would be ok with two difficulties normal and heroic. Ilvl has went crazy and purple is not really epic anymore.
The WoW will make worse feel great about themselves and good players feel bad. Why? Good player decides to do heroic raid and bad player decides to LFR. Now good player get som 915ilvl and bad gets lucky and gets 950. Then bad player out ilvl good player. The good player wants to get better but relies on rng and cannot. So good player is doing everything he/she can but nothing.

LFR is the main reason Blizzard dedicate the majority of resources to PvE and raiding now.

[Nnyco]

No, you are just choosing old skills that Blizzard removed some patch ago. Talents are effectively more skills, not a unique system in the game and hardly ever changes gameplay. This wasn't the case when they first introduced this particular talent system. They basically dumped it down.


Meaningless, considering each class and spec favors certain stats. Haste could be completely useless for your spec.


Meaningless, see the above point. This was always a problem in wow tho.


You can walk/run on World of Warcraft too, it must be an awesome game.


I like the game, I played it a lot. The problem is the current state of the game, it's not an RPG.

you also just choosen skills in old talent tree, only difference was that you had to pick some passives taht everyone with abit of a brain would pick anyway or because they had to to reach said skill

[Eleccybubb]

Nothing I said here is an opinion. Those are facts. And Rogue doesn't need haste, nor it would do a jackshit even if you stack it. How about that?

So if I don't have 33.3% crit as Frost mage my experience won't differ? Have you actually played Legion?

Again yes it is an opinion. Because some classes do need certain stats to work properly. See my Frost Mage example.

But if you are going to keep spouting your opinion as fact such as "game isn't an RPG anymore" then this is over. So are you going to discuss your opinions of classic and modern with me or will you keep throwing the "my opinion is fact" play into the ring?

[Cyi]

What made classic WoW so much better was that it was something new. Thats it. Pretty much every change since then has been for the better, its just that the newness of it all has worn off. Lots of us where in our mid twenties back then, still had fewer responsibilities etc. Rose colored glasses and all that.

[Eleccybubb]

What made classic WoW so much better was that it was something new. Thats it. Pretty much every change since then has been for the better, its just that the newness of it all has worn off. Lots of us where in our mid twenties back then, still had fewer responsibilities etc. Rose colored glasses and all that.

I don't agree with this. I get some peoples opinions here I really do. The nostalgia/rose tinted glasses card really isn't the best argument and is kind of being overused in these kinds of threads now. Not a direct aim at you there just more in general if you get what I mean?

I can understand why people want Legacy and I'm all for it. Hell I play Old School Runescape and it's so much fun being able to play that older version alongside the newer one for me. That's what I'd do with Legacy. Probably play TBC or Wrath alongside Legion.

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you also just choosen skills in old talent tree, only difference was that you had to pick some passives taht everyone with abit of a brain would pick anyway or because they had to to reach said skill

Pretty much this. Everyone mostly went the same builds back then. It's no different from today other than that the trees have changed. As I said earlier the key word is mostly because some people experimented back then as they do now. I know some locks went DF/Ruin for PvE. Although Lock isn't my most knowledgeable class so if anyone wants to correct me feel free to.

Any sane Hunter went MM for raiding, most Locks went SM/Ruin, most Warriors especially Horde went Prot because it was a disgusting spec and so on.

[Cyi]

I don't agree with this. I get some peoples opinions here I really do. The nostalgia/rose tinted glasses card really isn't the best argument and is kind of being overused in these kinds of threads now. Not a direct aim at you there just more in general if you get what I mean?

I can understand why people want Legacy and I'm all for it. Hell I play Old School Runescape and it's so much fun being able to play that older version alongside the newer one for me. That's what I'd do with Legacy. Probably play TBC or Wrath alongside Legion.

I could see playing those versions again, I am just saying that alone doesn't make them better as per the OPs post. Yeah there are things I miss from those days but a vast majority of the changes have been excellent.

For myself, of which I think I am still in the majority of players, have been playing this game since launch. Most of us are now in our late thirties, have families or full time jobs, or both and simply don't have the time we did in the past. I play much more casually now and many of the features released are for exactly that. The game now keeps me engaged, keeps me paying my sub, whereas if I had to play the game as it was in vanilla or TBC now, there is no way. It required a lot more dedication back then and if you didn't dedicate, you were left with very little to do.

So for me, and as I suspect many of the current WoW players, the changes have been positive. Understand though, if they had a vanilla server, I would hop on once in awhile to remember those days, but I couldn't be competitive there and would be back to the live version of the game.

[Kallisto]

Customization and open world.

It was fun making a tank shaman or a melee mage.. you could focus on DPS and make a glass cannon with almost no HP or a tanky monster.

Also everything wasn't spoonfed.. only like less than 1% raided and all content was relevant all the time.

Oh and no flying too, I hate flying:P Thats a personal note though..

Which is like saying only 1% of FF7 players went to kill Sephiroth. The game design was always about getting you into the raids. The devs realising it was just too few. Playing a game means you go for the end boss. That's the damn point.

People who were not going into raids or top end pvp were objectively playing the game wrong.

[Eleccybubb]

I could see playing those versions again, I am just saying that alone doesn't make them better as per the OPs post. Yeah there are things I miss from those days but a vast majority of the changes have been excellent.

For myself, of which I think I am still in the majority of players, have been playing this game since launch. Most of us are now in our late thirties, have families or full time jobs, or both and simply don't have the time we did in the past. I play much more casually now and many of the features released our for exactly that. The game now keeps me engaged, keeps me paying my sub, whereas if I had to play the game as it was in vanilla or TBC now, there is no way. It required a lot more dedication back then and if you didn't dedicate, you were left with very little to do.

So for me, and as I suspect many of the current WoW players, the changes have been positive.

Exactly. Now let me ask you this. Had it stuck with the Vanilla model of time investment, 40 man raiding with 20 mans and some of the QoL back then do you think it would have been successful today? I asked this earlier and I want to get peoples thoughts on this.

Me personally I think no. Because if we had that today as the core WoW it would have risked being outshined by the more accessible MMOs coming out around 2010-2017.

[deadman1]

I don't agree with this. I get some peoples opinions here I really do. The nostalgia/rose tinted glasses card really isn't the best argument and is kind of being overused in these kinds of threads now.

If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck, you don't avoid calling it a duck just because it's an overused term for a duck.

[Eleccybubb]

If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck, you don't avoid calling it a duck just because it's an overused term for a duck.

But I don't think it's purely down to nostalgia that people want older versions. It's probably a key factor for sure but to say it's the only one is silly.

Personal example here. I collect retro games as a hobby. Mostly Mega Drive because that is the console I had as a kid. Do I play those games for nostalgia? Yes. But also pure enjoyment is a reason. Nostalgia is only one of many reasons for wanting to play something old.

[Cyi]

Exactly. Now let me ask you this. Had it stuck with the Vanilla model of time investment, 40 man raiding with 20 mans and some of the QoL back then do you think it would have been successful today? I asked this earlier and I want to get peoples thoughts on this.

Me personally I think no. Because if we had that today as the core WoW it would have risked being outshined by the more accessible MMOs coming out around 2010-2017.

Well, at least for me I already answered that. If I had to play the game full time like it was back then, now, there is no way. When I was younger and had far less responsibility, I loved the challenge, the hours upon hours of dedication required just to level, gather supplies to just dungeon run not to mention raid. It was a commitment I was able to handle then. Now, I simply don't have the time in the day nor the desire. I would rather be spending that time doing things. This doesn't mean I don't enjoy the game, because I really do, I just want the QOL stuff that has come so that when I can sit down and play for a couple of hours, I don't have to do a bunch of other crap I don't want to.

[Kuntantee]

So what are principal differences in game rules between then and today? Do we have 6 people groups now? Do we have a skill-based progression system instead of experience one?

There is no game system that hasn't changed fundamentally in WoW. The changes are not only about specific rules, but whole design philosophies. In my opinion, the most dramatic change is skills and their damage schools. Rogues, for example, used to deal lots of physical damage, giving advantage over clothies, but disadvantage over plate wearers. This is not the case anymore, at least for assassination and subtlety. In Cata, for example, I'd switch between Assassination and Subtlety to deal with plate/cloth wearers. The significance of armor is just one example, but I think it reflects the actual problem with the game.

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But if you are going to keep spouting your opinion

That's just your opinion. Stop spouting your opinion.

[thunterman]

Personally, I've realised the sole cause of the "I want Legacy" trend for myself. Back in Vanilla, I was about 12, I sucked at the game beyond belief. There was 80% of the game I never experienced. A year or so ago, I decided to go an play a Vanilla server for the same reason as before, the sense of community is better, it's more social, its "harder". What I discovered for myself personally? The game isn't "harder" I'm just better at it now. The game hasn't made itself anti-social, the community has. After a couple of months at max level, having cleared all the content I hadn't all those years ago, do you know what I wanted? Desperately? updates. I wanted expansions, which defeats the object of a Vanilla server. This is why Vanilla servers ALWAYS Crumble. Vanilla servers bleed players faster than live does. "You think you do but you don't" infuriated me at first, but now I wholeheartedly agree with it. I was a die hard legacy fan, now I understand fully why it won't and shouldn't ever be a thing - It won't last long.
After playing both live and a Vanilla realm simultaneously for over a year, there was no contest into which was better in every single way for me.

OT : Classic is not better than current.

[Eleccybubb]

There is no game system that hasn't changed fundamentally in WoW. The changes are not only about specific rules, but whole design philosophies. In my opinion, the most dramatic change is skills and their damage schools. Rogues, for example, used to deal lots of physical damage, giving advantage over clothies, but disadvantage over plate wearers. This is not the case anymore, at least for assassination and subtlety. In Cata, for example, I'd switch between Assassination and Subtlety to deal with plate/cloth wearers. The significance of armor is just one example, but I think it reflects the actual problem with the game.

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That's just your opinion. Stop spouting your opinion.

Thank you for proving my point. You want an actual discussion then I'm happy to rather than a one sided "my opinion is fact" argument.