Legion - Assassination Discussion

[RobertoCarlos]

Now check mythic progression, where no rogue is near the top.

The difference is only going to get bigger since other classes' tier bonus is actually good and they have valuable stat distribution.

Calling bullshit. Pretty much only tanks have good stat distribution on tier because they get vers on a lot of pieces.

Most classes are in the same boat with blizzard throwing darts at the board to see what stats they put on tier pieces. Rogues are not in a bad spot, calm down friend.

[shaunika123]

goroth - assassination
inquisition - assassination
harjatan - sub
sisters - assassination
host - sub
mistress - sub
maiden - assassination
avatar - assassination
KJ - I tend to assassination

but since most of the "pro" rogues switched to sub for nearly all bosses, we will barely see top parses of assass

the only fight where assa is clearly better than sub is inquisition (and avatar if they let you logwhore with multidotting maiden but that's hardly something everyone can do and it's not really beneficial to the raid)

sub just flat out does more single target dps than assa, period.

[DakonBlackblade]

Now check mythic progression, where no rogue is near the top.

The difference is only going to get bigger since other classes' tier bonus is actually good and they have valuable stat distribution.

The problems isn't rogues, its that Tomb has a bunch of crap health adds on almost every fight, if you go for boss DPS Sin and Sub are both near the top. When Sasszine parsees start comming in it'll screw the overall average completly since whoever gets the fish buff the most will deal absurdly more damage than the others.

Also all the top rogues going Sub is skewing things towards Sub in the parsees but in reality the difference is very small between the two specs, altough Sin is less reliable as you can get tries were PBs just don't happen.

[thottstation]

So. Any compiled Tomb of Sargeras Tips & Tricks yet?

Looks like Crippling Poison has no effect on Harj's murloc adds.

[shaunika123]

The problems isn't rogues, its that Tomb has a bunch of crap health adds on almost every fight, if you go for boss DPS Sin and Sub are both near the top. When Sasszine parsees start comming in it'll screw the overall average completly since whoever gets the fish buff the most will deal absurdly more damage than the others.

Also all the top rogues going Sub is skewing things towards Sub in the parsees but in reality the difference is very small between the two specs, altough Sin is less reliable as you can get tries were PBs just don't happen.

you do realize there's still like 3 times as many assa parses as sub right? so if anything's skewed it's assa

plus sub is fantastic on "crap health adds" due to shurriken combo

as for mythic logs, it's way to early to gauge anything by them

there isnt even logs for all bosses and the best ones are hidden so they're as unreliable as can be

[Deleted]

the only fight where assa is clearly better than sub is inquisition (and avatar if they let you logwhore with multidotting maiden but that's hardly something everyone can do and it's not really beneficial to the raid)

sub just flat out does more single target dps than assa, period.

unfortunately we have no insight in the real top parses. I am following some streams at which the performances of the rogues are one hundred times better than the "public" parses. There are insanely strong assassination rogues around. At some bosses assassination is working very well (not only avatar) and at some other bosses sub is better (especially at shuriken combo encouters).

But to be honest, it doesnt matter what you play for the 5/9 Bosses (excl. mistress).

At Mistress sub is definitely the strongest spec due to shuriken combo.

At Maiden assassination performs a little bit better than sub.

At Avatar its a little bit more complicated. Due to the immense tuning, assassination has the best burst out put for the maiden shield. Overall top dps doesnt matter, in this fight punctual damage is much more important. If you have 3/4/5 assassination rogues saving all their cooldowns to burn the shield down, it makes a lot of things way easier. Once the boss is in P2 (he should be around 40% or lower at this point) the execute bracers are worth gold as well.

[Eazy]

So. Any compiled Tomb of Sargeras Tips & Tricks yet?

Looks like Crippling Poison has no effect on Harj's murloc adds.

You can also get 2 stacks of Armageddon with COS(I mean using it after).

[NtflxnChill]

Now check mythic progression, where no rogue is near the top.

The difference is only going to get bigger since other classes' tier bonus is actually good and they have valuable stat distribution.

Rogues are actually top tier in all fight's, dunno what you are on about. Both Sub and Sin are viable, one being superior than other in specific fight's.

[nocturnus]

Rogues are actually top tier in all fight's, dunno what you are on about. Both Sub and Sin are viable, one being superior than other in specific fight's.

Aye, Method's rogues absolutely crushed the damage meter on mythic maiden. Oh wait, they didn't, not by a long shot. Only a 400k dps difference between the warrior and the best of the two rogues and in between there's another warrior, 2 hunters, a demonhunter and evern a ret paladin. Heck, you usually don't even see the rogues on the meter, that's how far down they are on an extremely rogue-friendly fight (much higher dps uptime compared to other classes).

If you think SiN or rogues in general are "extremely strong" right now, you're either ignorant or play with people that do not know how to wield their class. We're not horrible, but we definitely need some tuning.

[Deleted]

Aye, Method's rogues absolutely crushed the damage meter on mythic maiden. Oh wait, they didn't, not by a long shot. Only a 400k dps difference between the warrior and the best of the two rogues and in between there's another warrior, 2 hunters, a demonhunter and evern a ret paladin. Heck, you usually don't even see the rogues on the meter, that's how far down they are on an extremely rogue-friendly fight (much higher dps uptime compared to other classes).

If you think SiN or rogues in general are "extremely strong" right now, you're either ignorant or play with people that do not know how to wield their class. We're not horrible, but we definitely need some tuning.

First off all the numbers of a single guild in a single attempt isnt the reference. To be honest their dps output is the lowest of all rogues on mythic maiden so far in their kill try. There are rogues around with 1.3 to 1.4 million on mythic maiden (most cases assa, sometimes sub). All depends on RNG in this fight (how often you receive the bomb, how often how many stacks you get etc.). There were also rogues around doing 1.5 million and wiped on 1%. Also to believe that any pleb is able to pull out the dps of the two best warriors in the world, than my friend you live in marshmallow land.

You should also take a look at bosses where sub rogues profit from shuriken combo, they usually doing 50% more boss dps than any other class.

We are indeed not the very best dps class this content, but we are still in the upper level. And the raid utility is still awesome.

[nocturnus]

First off all the numbers of a single guild in a single attempt isnt the reference. To be honest their dps output is the lowest of all rogues on mythic maiden so far in their kill try. There are rogues around with 1.3 to 1.4 million on mythic maiden (most cases assa, sometimes sub). All depends on RNG in this fight (how often you receive the bomb, how often how many stacks you get etc.). There were also rogues around doing 1.5 million and wiped on 1%. Also to believe that any pleb is able to pull out the dps of the two best warriors in the world, than my friend you live in marshmallow land.

You should also take a look at bosses where sub rogues profit from shuriken combo, they usually doing 50% more boss dps than any other class.

We are indeed not the very best dps class this content, but we are still in the upper level. And the raid utility is still awesome.

There are? How do you know that? There are no logs of maiden mythic yet.

"Best warriors in the world" - it isn't rocket science. Quite frankly, I do similar dps on my warrior at ilvl 918 without both bis legendaries. If there's something that's extremely easy, it's dpsing as a rend warrior.

[Deleted]

There are? How do you know that? There are no logs of maiden mythic yet.

"Best warriors in the world" - it isn't rocket science. Quite frankly, I do similar dps on my warrior at ilvl 918 without both bis legendaries. If there's something that's extremely easy, it's dpsing as a rend warrior.

streams and vids boi!

[ymirsson]

There are? How do you know that? There are no logs of maiden mythic yet.

"Best warriors in the world" - it isn't rocket science. Quite frankly, I do similar dps on my warrior at ilvl 918 without both bis legendaries. If there's something that's extremely easy, it's dpsing as a rend warrior.

But do you do those DPS on a mythic fight in progression?

[Skylarking]

I was wondering if its normal for assass dps to flatline after the opener. I have shoulders and bracers, the opener is quite strong especially if i get poison bomb to proc while the 100% crit chance is up but after that if im not gettin anymore procs the dps drops quite abit.

[nocturnus]

I was wondering if its normal for assass dps to flatline after the opener. I have shoulders and bracers, the opener is quite strong especially if i get poison bomb to proc while the 100% crit chance is up but after that if im not gettin anymore procs the dps drops quite abit.

That's pretty normal. In T20 you'll open between 2.5m and 4m dps if PB procs during the opener, afterwards you quickly drop to 1m-1.2m dps.

[Blayke]

RE: Vigor vs. Deeper Strat

I've seen this mentioned in other posts, without ever really being answered, and I was kinda wondering this myself. In the interest of full disclosure, vigor still pulled slightly ahead when i simmed it, and yet now with get another cp builder in our rotation i find I'm constantly in danger of cp overflow. Plus the extra finisher damage, while not what it once was, seems to have a nice synergy with vendetta and tb. Just wondering what other people think.

On a somewhat unrelated subject, has the issue of whether our 4pc grants our garotte +40 or +60 damage ever been resolved. I've heard its just a tool tip bug, but i've also heard that 40% is the real number. Thanks!

[RobertoCarlos]

Well strat over vigor for assass is only buffing envemon damage and if we didn't drop vigor with the t19 4set doubt we will now

[omeomorfismo]

RE: Vigor vs. Deeper Strat

I've seen this mentioned in other posts, without ever really being answered, and I was kinda wondering this myself. In the interest of full disclosure, vigor still pulled slightly ahead when i simmed it, and yet now with get another cp builder in our rotation i find I'm constantly in danger of cp overflow. Plus the extra finisher damage, while not what it once was, seems to have a nice synergy with vendetta and tb. Just wondering what other people think.

On a somewhat unrelated subject, has the issue of whether our 4pc grants our garotte +40 or +60 damage ever been resolved. I've heard its just a tool tip bug, but i've also heard that 40% is the real number. Thanks!

if you use boots take vigor, otherwise DS

[Blayke]

Well strat over vigor for assass is only buffing envemon damage and if we didn't drop vigor with the t19 4set doubt we will now

Well, to be fair, it also buffs rupture. Still not sure if that's enough to push it over the top tho.

[RobertoCarlos]

Well, to be fair, it also buffs rupture. Still not sure if that's enough to push it over the top tho.

Rupture does static damage, doesnt matter if its 1combo point or 6. It only increases the duration