Tank Balance one week in?

[Raiju]

All tanks are viable for either heroic or mythic thats all that can be said, are a few tanks more gimmicky? sure but the balance is realy close. what type of tank you are using is mostly the least problem when progressing tbh (exception of Krosus maybe) on a side note unless you play in top 50 you should never worry about your tank class not being viable and you should just play what you enjoy the most.

Guessing someone watched sco's video and incorrectly believes warriors are bad for tomb.

Tank balance is a LOT better now, for sure. There's still 2 tanks where you're better off rerolling to your 20ilvl lower alt though.

[ReD-EyeD]

Wut? DK has a 1,5 min (really more like 45 secs if you are properly doing your rotation) button that effectively puts you at 15 million+ hp and a 40% reduction every 25 seconds. Warriors can just ignore pain till cap (which efectively doubles your HP) then soak. I agree they are not the best at soaking meteors since druids are still absurdly OP (ironfurx2 puts you on ~80% dmg reduction) and monks just ignore the hit and apply a DoT that can be easily healed by a couple of hots; but dk or warrior are not terrible for armagedon soaking. Also, they both do felclaws pretty well: Warrior can just block up to 60% of the felclaws dmg (critical blocks iirc) and have neltharion fury for the 2 last hits (100% critical blocks); and DK well, he can just Vampiric and heal for his entire HP over and over again (i've seen 12 million heals on KJ myself). The fact BDK is above is just because its utility on some bosses, because of grips, mass grips and AMS to skip mechanics.


Unless the meteor hit is pretty close you just don't get in time for SotR. Anyways you have lots of other CDs for soaking meteors (2x inmune + cheat death)

Meteor damage is blocked (and critblocked). I tanked Kiljaeden with both warrior and druid and with shield block up with ignore pain you actually receive less damage from it than a bear. But comparably both tanks are absolutely fine despite very different approach and mechanics.

Warriors are ABSOLUTELY GREAT for Tomb. Sco's main problem was choosing between Devastator / Indomitable and in all honesty Indomitable build does comparable damage to other tanks. You can't go full dps glass cannon build greed on progress raids. Indomitable build warriors are very sturdy.

[Vestig3]

Guessing someone watched sco's video and incorrectly believes warriors are bad for tomb.

Havent even watched Sco's video or Preach or who ever made a tank ranking video nor will i ever do, coz in the end of the day i play what i enjoy, and Warriors are viable for Tomb otherwise Exorsus wouldnt run with one (this might contradict what i said about being in top 50 but playing any of less viable tanks require more skill which is also what you need if you want to play in top ranked guilds)

- - - Updated - - -

Warriors are ABSOLUTELY GREAT for Tomb. Sco's main problem was choosing between Devastator / Indomitable and in all honesty Indomitable build does comparable damage to other tanks. You can't go full dps glass cannon build greed on progress raids. Indomitable build warriors are very sturdy.

It is very close but hey who likes pressing devastate for 7mins.

[ReD-EyeD]

It is very close but hey who likes pressing devastate for 7mins.

I actually do. I just want something to press every second. It keeps me in the rhythm. I hate devastator rotation holes when you just sit and wait for something to come off cd or pooling rage.

[Raiju]

Havent even watched Sco's video or Preach or who ever made a tank ranking video nor will i ever do, coz in the end of the day i play what i enjoy, and Warriors are viable for Tomb otherwise Exorsus wouldnt run with one (this might contradict what i said about being in top 50 but playing any of less viable tanks require more skill which is also what you need if you want to play in top ranked guilds)

You seem to be too biased to understand warriors are not a less viable tank, at all. You seem to have it in your head that warriors are a weak tank that take more skill to play this tier, which unfortunately just isn't true.

Not that I feel like getting into an argument about skill, but none of the tanks are particularly difficult respective to wows spectrum of difficulty.

[Nakotsu]

Well I dont know if this counts but I just did a mythic 10 keystone on my demon hunter tank... The first boss I solo for 3 mins because the group all died and well I wasnt putting up with that being 907 item lvl... Then at the spiders near the last boss the healer D/C and didnt come back so I soloed the packs no healer and then the final boss no healer and 2 dps alive.... Again not saying much but my god them affixes were brutal this week. My main goal as a DH Tank is to have mass parry... Which I do around 35-38% This mainly gained from Crit. The other thing is I have the 2 best legendaries for DH tanks on at max level. The Necklaces bubble shield and the ring that makes me gain leech from my defense cooldown which is already buffed considerably threw talents and other things... In which I almost never have down on cooldown.......

[Tojara]

I honestly think DKs are better than druids right now. DKs don't do top tier damage, but they also don't do dog shit damage anymore. They don't struggle with either damage type, and they have the capability of cheesing mechanics just as good as monks do, if not better in certain situations (at least more frequently).

The fact that you can have upwards of 16 million health every 30-40 seconds for 10 seconds while taking extra healing is largely responsible for this. Considering a lot of boss mechanics meet those timers, there is absolutely nothing that presents incredible danger to a DK in ToS. If you want to cheese further you simply add the new ring and have two charges of on demand 40% DR for 3 seconds that recharge every 25 seconds.

Maiden smash is a joke (solo), Avatar desolates are a joke, and Felclaws are a joke. I've only done these bosses on heroic without the ring (so no rune tap), but now that I have it, I have no doubts that adding it for those bosses on mythic would make those encounters incredibly easy to deal with (note not make the encounters trivial, just from a tanking perspective). People claiming DKs are bad at soaking on KJ must not know that rune tap exists lol. Furthermore you can AMS little meteors and immune the dot completely. Personally I wouldn't have tanks soaking big meteors at all outside of the intermission anyway.

Grip (both single and mass) are useful on several encounters (and also make KJ way easier), and consumption is actually a fairly nice utility added with the new artifact tree. It's not a lot, but AMS can cheese a couple debuffs as well.

Personally I think tank balance is in a good spot, aside from probably prot paladins. Some classes didn't get buffed all that much, but they seem better simply because of how they designed ToS. It's honestly sort of a joke because they removed ursols from druid and made the instance largely about physical damage (10/10 Blizzard). However this worked to some classes favor, because warriors are pretty good against physical and ToS has lots of blockable mechanics.

[Vestig3]

You seem to be too biased to understand warriors are not a less viable tank, at all. You seem to have it in your head that warriors are a weak tank that take more skill to play this tier, which unfortunately just isn't true.

Think your not realy understanding what im trying to say but not gonna go into that tl;dr stuff.

If i thought warriors where weak i would have gone on my druid or dk.

[Stallion]

My thoughts on the strength of prot warriors:

(All of the following assumes Devastator spec and gets eased a bit by using the Indomitable talent for 20% more max HP but that talent is just hated by 90% of warriors and consequently not even used by the warriors who are currently progression furthest in Mythic tomb since it cuts your dps and hps throughput by 30% and makes the spec much less reactive and boring to play)

Factoring in mitigation by blocking, ignore pain and self-healing with legendary bracers, warriors require the least amount of healing versus sustained physical damage (which there is a lot of in tomb) which is why people rightfully call it surprisingly strong for tomb. Also they can just keep tanking forever at maximum erfficiency / active mitigation uptime with Heavy Repercussion spec, too. Yes, I'm pretty sure their physical mitigation is even better than druid's. And honestly, if it is not, the case is closed and there is zero reason left to argue that prot is good if there's a spec out there (guardian) with 50% more HP and a ton more "oh shit"-buttons with equally good mitigation.

The problem is that they're squishy as fuck if for whatever reason they can't block a hit. I'm talking about the fact that you get one shot from 95% HP by Atrigan by 6 million auto hits. Now as I said in most fights, you're able to keep your active mitigation up during all phases where you're actively tanking but it's an extremely unforgiving class and I'm not sure if I would rate a class top-tier for progression raiding that barely requires healing for most of the fight but then can get oneshot by an auto hit if you're distracted for 1 second at the wrong time while druids barely take more physical dmg but have a 50% bigger health pool and monks have stagger which are both much more fail proof by being passive in the midst of a progression fight.
Some examples how prot warriors can get recked even by content they outgear independent of having active mitigation up: As a 920 prot warrior, you die within 2 seconds if you let 3 Tichondrius blobs hit you in the back while moving them out. You start Heroic Kil'Jaeden with 10% HP left if you charge him from the front, most of the time making Kil'Jaeden run through your character model and auto hit you in the back for 90% HP. You first have to find out to charge him slightly from the side to prevent that from happening realiably. Guess what happens if you don't keep 100% active mitigation uptime during the fight? You might just drop 90% from an auto hit. Paladins know what I'm talking about. That reliance on blocking mechanic is just some annoying shit that other tanks don't have to deal with. That constant positioning requirement contributes just more to how unforgiving it is. The further we progress into the expansion, the worse this is going to get because all our survivability comes from blocking since ignore pain and our health pool scale much much slower than incoming damage. I fully expect to be oneshot by Mythic Kil'jaeden auto hits if I were to take one in the back on pull or without shield block up.

In my opinion, if played perfectly, warriors might be the tanks that can reach the highest efficiency in terms of healing required and spikiness and being able to tank prolonged periods of time without mitigation suffering but it's unrealistic to expect being able to play 100% perfect in new fights, even more so if you're racing world firsts or raid leading at same time. So warriors are a great choice imo for the non world firsts guilds that have videos, logs etc. on their hands to analyze and see the fights beforehand and go in with a bit of routine already but not for cutting edge progression in unknown territory. I'm obviously playing warrior myself and I'm confident I'm very good at it but if I was aiming for world firsts, fighting new bosses without much insight, I'd ditch it for a more forgiving tank like druid or monk for sure.

[Marrilaife]

I'm not gonna claim paladins are OP this tier or anything like that but I don't know why anyone is calling them weak. They haven't changed since launch except that they have gained significant secondaries (yes like all tanks) which they scale extremely well with.

That's exactly the problem. Other "weak" tanks got buffs like more hp, more armor, improved talents that no one used to the point they're actually good, the new 7.2 traits brought much good for several tank classes while paladins got 4% parry (lol) and an insta nerfed golden. Paladins did get nerfs like the cheat death overall nerf or the max shield buff uptime nerf (making bastion of light, one of the better defensive talents, problematic because you will waste uptime no matter how you use it).

I'm not saying the other classes didn't need buffs, but ofc if you compare 7.0 DH & DK and 7.2.5 edition it's completely different story. Problem with paladins if you stand in the same spot and everyone around gets buffs, you start sliding to the bottom of the pile.

Also "gaining significant secondaries" is a problem for paladins because of seraphim, you still pay a hefty price for what, less and less % of your stats buff because the buff is flat stats and your total stats go higher, so you gain less and less for the same high price. And without seraphim you just do shit damage while all other tanks around got massive buffs to their dps, most of them don't need to manage any dps cds because they have none, they just do it with normal rotation.

And I think Sco is valuing warrior less because he's still annoyed he had to reroll away from it because druid was better (even if the gap is smaller now). He hated removal of focused rage and the focused rage into ignore pain macro, judging from what he said about warriors when the devastator changes hit.

Paladins were taken because they could bop, spellward or cheese soak with "cheat death" ardent defender (last one was already nerfed), in the same manner monks had unique utility too (hi transcend on gul'dan bonds) but that doesn't mean utility is exclusive with being a solid tank overall, apparently for paladins it is. It used to be SOTR buff is so strong you don't need to pair it with cds and you can save cds for when SOTR is on cd, this is no longer the case, for things like claws etc. you need to layer the cds because the shield buff alone is not good enough.

Self healing model is a problem if you have low HP pool. That was the problem with DKs and DHs before they got all the hp / armor / trait buffs, they were self-healing tanks who could get gibbed before they even had the time to heal back. But for example now DKs have big enough health pool the self healing model has the room to breathe. Paladins don't have anything like that, so the self healing model can't shine, the incoming tank damage just outscaled them.

And it's not that Paladins were even great this expansion. They were benched on mythic Guarm pre-nerf for druids, monks and warriors with legendary bracers, they were benched on Augur pre-nerf for druids and monks again. There wasn't even this one fight you really wanted paladin on for a specific reason, like for example you might have wanted a blood dk on ilgynoth mythic to mass grip first wave of blobs (and tank damage was low on that fight so the drawbacks of blood dk didn't cause issues there). Some spellward cheese was useful but there were usually many other ways to deal with the same issue, like the trick to make aluriel's soul hit the monk statue instead of a player.

[Thunderbull]

Well, 2 cents from monk, who hit 110th in this june: when I was on Sisters HC this week, and another tank died (raid pug ilvl lower cap 900), i survived 91 (1:31) s after that. With ilvl 909, and two worst (and only) leggies for survival (shldrs, belt - both for dps in brew spec).

[Nariera]

Guessing someone watched sco's video and incorrectly believes warriors are bad for tomb.

Tank balance is a LOT better now, for sure. There's still 2 tanks where you're better off rerolling to your 20ilvl lower alt though.

Even in Sco's video, he stated at the end that tank balance is close enough that you can take any tank into progress raiding. So whoever watching the video should probably consider watching the whole thing.

[Raiju]

Even in Sco's video, he stated at the end that tank balance is close enough that you can take any tank into progress raiding. So whoever watching the video should probably consider watching the whole thing.

And it's a fair comment, because it's in context of legion where until now we HAVEN'T been in a position (and this has been a worrying trend recently) where all tanks are viable. It's a back to normality. It doesn't mean the tanks are balanced, it just means they're balanced enough you can run a paladin and get through.

It's sure as hell going to be easier with a bear/monk/dk/warrior though.

[Nariera]

And it's a fair comment, because it's in context of legion where until now we HAVEN'T been in a position (and this has been a worrying trend recently) where all tanks are viable. It's a back to normality. It doesn't mean the tanks are balanced, it just means they're balanced enough you can run a paladin and get through.

It's sure as hell going to be easier with a bear/monk/dk/warrior though.

Definitely, I find it easier to stay alive as a bear in ToS than tanking as a VDH.

[Blizzhoof]

And then theres prot pala, then again clearly the term balance isnt a word that you understand. More equal than others = not balanced.

#RIpPanthea, you know balance sucks when our 930 main tank prot pala rerolls his 907 monk in 2nd mythic night and is tankier and has more HP than his main.

Rerolling a brand new BDK from Prot Paladin here after the first week. Getting hit for 80% of my hp every melee that SotR isn't up is the opposite of fun.

[Deleted]

nobody cares about mythic+ this is a raid game

Who said mythic+? And no this isn't a raid game if you can do other things too....

[Inuyaki]

I guess he assumed you are talking about mythic+ because you sure as hell cannot be talking about mythic raids with your comment

[Kylusen]

Also, they both do felclaws pretty well: Warrior can just block up to 60% of the felclaws dmg (critical blocks iirc) and have neltharion fury for the 2 last hits (100% critical blocks);

Quick thing about Crit Block, I believe crit blocks block up to 76% dmg (80% if you get KJ relic), since it doubles the dmg blocked and we have the new trait which increases how much we block, so its even better than what you stated. I believe it was found out it works like this when they added the new trait

[Deleted]

Quick thing about Crit Block, I believe crit blocks block up to 76% dmg (80% if you get KJ relic), since it doubles the dmg blocked and we have the new trait which increases how much we block, so its even better than what you stated. I believe it was found out it works like this when they added the new trait

That's why i added iirc, i don't play prot since warlords x)

[Tech614]

yeah paladin will just pop SOTR out of his ass like magic

to activate SOTR you need to be in melee range and its 3 button presses instead of just 1

And you have like 10 seconds to do this, and get to the Armageddon. I swear it's like people have never done the encounter and think you have to be there and soak it in 3 seconds flat LMAO.

If you're helpless at timing this properly and need to soak one you have 2 other buttons capable of doing so that you don't really use for tanking. Poor paladins, can't soak an armageddon.

Paladins should be complaining that they get 1 shot when SOTR is not up while tanking, not complaining about soaking an ability that every tank class can do in their sleep.