Page 1 of 2
1
2
LastLast
  1. #1

    Are people terrible at this game, or do they just not care?

    This game has never been as easy as it is now. Everything is explained to you in detail. Everything is spoon-fed to you, abilities have been pruned, gear barely matters at all anymore in BG's. For the first time since I've played this game every class played well can be competitive (even ele shamans have done well in Legion) and yet, there still seems to be such a huge gap between winning teams and losing teams almost every single battleground I play.
    The part I can't wrap my head around is the damage people are struggling to do. Now I don't want to sound like a dick or anything here, but I could teach my mum to play this game and within a day she could be doing more damage/healing than the people I see in BG's. Like I said, every single ability is explained to you it is so fool-proof it even tells you when to use them

    So what is going on? Yes traits have an impact and to a lesser extent honor talents but I'm basically coming to the conclusion at this point that people really don't care. You can go into a BG, and even if you lose, you'll still get a chance at an epic piece of gear, you'll still get some artifact power and you'll still get some honor to go towards prestige, so if I lose meh I still get rewarded.

    What do you guys think? Should there be something implemented like "every player has an ilvl of 900 regardless of gear, including all traits/honor talents unlocked"
    Should there be no rewards at all for a losing team, or for those who ignore objectives? Maybe to give actual incentive to those people who seem not to care - to actually care and try to win for their team?

  2. #2
    I've been in BGs where literally no one types in the raid chat (bots?) while getting completely destroyed. Other times people chat here and there but for the most part random bgs are just that. If you lose, oh well, just queue up and try, try again. You really have nothing to lose. So i'm going to go with people just dont give a crap lol.

  3. #3
    I am Murloc! dacoolist's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Uncommon Premium
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Austin TX
    Posts
    5,684
    Just like with every game.. if you want to win more: Play with friends. That's all of the advice I can give you because.. no matter what you do in WoW, you'll ALWAYS run into scrubknights that have a ton of gear/look like they are going to be great: but they are complete shit.

    Just the way it is man

  4. #4
    High Overlord Atraxxa's Avatar
    5+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Location
    FL, USA
    Posts
    162
    Quote Originally Posted by nickp007 View Post
    This game has never been as easy as it is now. Everything is explained to you in detail. Everything is spoon-fed to you, abilities have been pruned, gear barely matters at all anymore in BG's. For the first time since I've played this game every class played well can be competitive (even ele shamans have done well in Legion) and yet, there still seems to be such a huge gap between winning teams and losing teams almost every single battleground I play.
    The part I can't wrap my head around is the damage people are struggling to do. Now I don't want to sound like a dick or anything here, but I could teach my mum to play this game and within a day she could be doing more damage/healing than the people I see in BG's. Like I said, every single ability is explained to you it is so fool-proof it even tells you when to use them

    So what is going on? Yes traits have an impact and to a lesser extent honor talents but I'm basically coming to the conclusion at this point that people really don't care. You can go into a BG, and even if you lose, you'll still get a chance at an epic piece of gear, you'll still get some artifact power and you'll still get some honor to go towards prestige, so if I lose meh I still get rewarded.

    What do you guys think? Should there be something implemented like "every player has an ilvl of 900 regardless of gear, including all traits/honor talents unlocked"
    Should there be no rewards at all for a losing team, or for those who ignore objectives? Maybe to give actual incentive to those people who seem not to care - to actually care and try to win for their team?
    Sounds like you are in the wrong place, nobody cares about a regular BG....you can literally have 8-9 year olds on your team and complete casuals there just to complete a weekly, if you want competitive pvp go to arenas or the RBG scene. Just cause you have gear forced down your throat doesn't mean you know what to do with it. Also to touch on the "Everything is explained to you in detail" part, how many assholes die every day from running a red light? That shits even color coded....

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by dacoolist View Post
    Just like with every game.. if you want to win more: Play with friends. That's all of the advice I can give you because.. no matter what you do in WoW, you'll ALWAYS run into scrubknights that have a ton of gear/look like they are going to be great: but they are complete shit.

    Just the way it is man
    Pretty much this. Just an example, yesterday I formed a group for a CoS 11 and ran multiple RBGs. For my CoS group I set a min ilvl of 905, invited 2 more dps at 908 and 910. One was a DH who topped out at 400-600k dps between trash packs and the other was a Rogue doing 300-400k on trash. The RBGs I was in I had a group of 905 ilvl players that were getting shown up by an 890-900 ilvl players simply due to the fact you could tell the people who organized it, while being geared, had barely ever done PVP of any kind.
    Either play with friends or expect the losses or make your own groups and be extremely selective.

  6. #6
    Bloodsail Admiral
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    1,198
    It's always been the case.

    Breaking 2k in arena requires basic knowledge of the game but most people can't do it. Most people struggle with heroic raiding, too.

    You're judging off of random BGs, which has always been casual PvP. The majority of people in this game and most games have no clue what they're doing, and that will always be the case. It's nothing to do with gear, although terrible players (especially on this forum) like to complain about losing because of 2% stats.

    There's different types of players. Some simply don't care and they still have fun even if they're awful at the game. Other types of players are awful and think they're good but they're simply too dumb or too arrogant to ever improve.

    There's this dogshit pally known on EU for literally telling people to die in terror attacks because he lost a BG.

    On a side note, if you're good enough you can solo carry the 10-man BGs.

    Quote Originally Posted by nickp007 View Post
    snip
    Last edited by Krusza; 2017-06-30 at 02:02 PM.

  7. #7
    Stood in the Fire Rekuja's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    425
    Battlegrounds.

    Most people that queue into these are not interested in PvP at all, they just want some tokens for PvP pieces (transmog) and mindless prestige grinding for the mounts/etc and the other half are bots.

  8. #8
    Exactly my sentiment. In my last 20 BGs or so, the winning team usually has more than 65% of the damage done, and the winning team's 3rd highest DPSer has nearly the total damage of the losers' 3 top DPSers combined.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by SinanDira View Post
    Exactly my sentiment. In my last 20 BGs or so, the winning team usually has more than 65% of the damage done, and the winning team's 3rd highest DPSer has nearly the total damage of the losers' 3 top DPSers combined.
    those affliction locks eh!

  10. #10
    OP do you play Alliance or Horde? I will say playing Alliance random BGs random quing is super frustrating. It can be that way on Horde too but lets face it, on NA servers the Horde dominate the PvP faction of choice.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Aliatril View Post
    OP do you play Alliance or Horde? I will say playing Alliance random BGs random quing is super frustrating. It can be that way on Horde too but lets face it, on NA servers the Horde dominate the PvP faction of choice.
    I play both factions equally as often, I've personally found that horde are winning probably about 60% of games in Legion which is 60% more than they were in WoD.

  12. #12
    I was playing Hotmogu the other day. We dominated them in kills, but whenever I checked the map no one cared about actually picking up orbs. We obviously lost and when I pointed out the obvious failure to perform the objectives, someone said, "It was close so chill." I can't even begin to relate to that mindset.

    Anyway, my biggest problem with battlegrounds is people's general disregard for objectives. WSG has been out for 10+ years and people still don't understand how to play it properly.

    It would be really cool if Blizzard could somehow raise awareness for battleground objectives as part of the game. Maybe give some bonuses for doing certain things. If players are sucking in their damage I can still enjoy it if they are at least going for the objectives.

  13. #13
    This has been true forever.

    I've considered trying to teach my mom to play (she would never play a video game though past 1-2 specific ones),
    really just to say: "My mother plays this game better than you!" And be being serious, lol.

    Why people are bad at the game is a HUGE issue, with alot of reasons.
    Some of which:
    Bad mentors. We had a guild run by a total MORON, who mass-recruited people and then because he had no idea how to play at all, he gave horrible advice and led everyone in his guild to believe he knew shit, when he didn't .. causing a huge wave of horrible players. He'd sweep up all the new players, then fill their heads with B.S.

    This happens ALOT in my EXP. (This kinda guild/GM has been around since Vanilla.)

    They're lazy. They don't want to play the class the "RIGHT" way, so they play the wrong way and either lie to themselves and say it's better for (X) reason or just don't care, because "It's just a game man."

    I agree it IS JUST A GAME, but no one plays a game with someone who doesn't abide by the rules. Not in WoW, not in Checkers, not in CandyLand, not in Football, not in anything.

    So why do these people think WoW should be the sole exception?

    The game offers no how to plays', and only very vague alludes to other sites that would actually help you gear/get your rotation down. So where are they going to learn?

    This brings us to Trade Chat.
    Where asking a question, gets you trolled or flamed.
    Again, how is someone new going to learn when no one will be serious with them?

    We take for granted how easy we find this game now and don't remember how hard it was starting out in many cases.
    I was pointed to ElitistJerks really early on but without that knowledge, I dunno where I'd have been.

    There's tons of other factors but those are just some of them.

    So the next time someone asks for help in Trade?
    Think twice about if you answer him and if you do, what you say to him.

  14. #14
    Deleted
    I've been to a few RBGs lately to get the weapon skin. And it is quite funny actually. After losing the first middle zerg (that most of RBGs have), it regularly becomes a flamefest in the group chat, mostly of healers blaming dps for low dps.

    Now I'm not a good PvPer by any stretch, in fact don't even enjoy PvP very much. But I can tell you that between dispells, interrupts, stuns and cc's, I barely get any dps out. In one specific RBS, there were 3 warriors (with good gear from the damage output they had) and they basically had all spell-casters in constant lockdown. Even with the good heals, none of them was really able to put out much dps.

    This is the biggest issue of just looking at things like dps meters. You don't have context.

    All the flames in party chat lead to is that you're distracted even more as a team and fight each other instead of the enemy...

  15. #15
    Players have been entering random BGs and literally doing nothing/not trying for a very long time now. At least you have the ability to remove them now a days.

  16. #16
    Herald of the Titans Dristereau's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    2,531
    People are just bad I think, and the timing of queuing makes it worse. 16.00 or later on a Weekday and all Weekends you have younger people coming in, and you can just watch them run like retards at the first enemy they see and start hitting it on their own, when behind them there's a another four enemies flanked by a healer. There's no healer focus the vast majority of the time, and people play on their own instead of as a group.

    My opinion is from a primary Alliance PoV, but I do find Horde better overall. I only have one Horde at 110, but it's statistics right now for BG's are Played 184, Won 132. That's a 71% win ratio. I don't have an Alliance Character who was new this expansion but I'm certain if I could narrow my Characters ratio's down to just this expansion it would be nowhere near as positive. I've had seven BG loss streaks a couple of times this expansion.

    Overall I think the Alliance has more younger players on EU personally whilst Horde are more organised and mature. I'm not saying Alliance is always terrible, but my experience so far this Expansion makes me less optimistic about Alliance in BGs unless I see some Elite/Glad players carrying the team. Little faith in failliance right now.
    Dristereau - Axxolentus - Infernus - Sequentia - Nulo - Desterrar

    Silvermoon
    - Shadowsong/Aszune - Tarren-Mill/Dentarg (SL Mage Tower: 29/36
    )

  17. #17
    Bloodsail Admiral
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    1,198
    Quote Originally Posted by Dristereau View Post
    People are just bad I think, and the timing of queuing makes it worse. 16.00 or later on a Weekday and all Weekends you have younger people coming in, and you can just watch them run like retards at the first enemy they see and start hitting it on their own, when behind them there's a another four enemies flanked by a healer. There's no healer focus the vast majority of the time, and people play on their own instead of as a group.

    My opinion is from a primary Alliance PoV, but I do find Horde better overall. I only have one Horde at 110, but it's statistics right now for BG's are Played 184, Won 132. That's a 71% win ratio. I don't have an Alliance Character who was new this expansion but I'm certain if I could narrow my Characters ratio's down to just this expansion it would be nowhere near as positive. I've had seven BG loss streaks a couple of times this expansion.

    Overall I think the Alliance has more younger players on EU personally whilst Horde are more organised and mature. I'm not saying Alliance is always terrible, but my experience so far this Expansion makes me less optimistic about Alliance in BGs unless I see some Elite/Glad players carrying the team. Little faith in failliance right now.
    You can look up bg statistics and usually see that it's a myth about one side winning more than the other.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Socronoss View Post
    I've been to a few RBGs lately to get the weapon skin. And it is quite funny actually. After losing the first middle zerg (that most of RBGs have), it regularly becomes a flamefest in the group chat, mostly of healers blaming dps for low dps.

    Now I'm not a good PvPer by any stretch, in fact don't even enjoy PvP very much. But I can tell you that between dispells, interrupts, stuns and cc's, I barely get any dps out. In one specific RBS, there were 3 warriors (with good gear from the damage output they had) and they basically had all spell-casters in constant lockdown. Even with the good heals, none of them was really able to put out much dps.

    This is the biggest issue of just looking at things like dps meters. You don't have context.

    All the flames in party chat lead to is that you're distracted even more as a team and fight each other instead of the enemy...
    Being able to dps well depends on your own positioning and coordination in relation to that of your team. The same applies in just about every PvP video game known to man. For some reason people don't think this applies in WoW, although it is something that people in higher RBGs seem to understand. Just ignore the flamers and keep practicing with the aim of getting better.

    For example, as a caster there is no reason to stand any closer than max range to your targets. If you are closer than that, you are opening yourself up as a target and if their melee want to reach you they have to put themselves horribly out of position and get gibbed more often than not.

    Although to simplify it further for the average random BG participant: If you're not fighting on our around an objective, you're probably doing it wrong. For this reason unless coordinated and purposeful (which I've only seen in RBG), those mid fights you're referring to are automatically the wrong thing to do anyway.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Rekuja View Post
    Battlegrounds.

    Most people that queue into these are not interested in PvP at all, they just want some tokens for PvP pieces (transmog) and mindless prestige grinding for the mounts/etc and the other half are bots.
    Spot on. Blizzard likes to create incentives for people to do things they really have no interest in doing. Mostly to populate or create this facade that 'people are doing it, so they must like it.' I remember how pissed people were when the MoP legendary had you do ToK and SSM and win.

  20. #20
    Deleted
    Its because most people play games to turn off their brain. Why do you think the most popular video games are the most brutal, mindnumbing and button mashing ones?

    I would say that WoW is not a "smart" game either, but it does require some decision making and a small semblance of strategy to push a group to victory in either BGs or raids.

    A lot of people enjoy pvp for the same reason others queue into random dungeons/raids every day and enjoy smashing buttons to see the virtual healthbar of something go from 100% to 0%. Thats about how far enjoyment goes in hack n slash MMOs. You see something, you kill it.

    How many people actually care about the lore of a dungeon or having something to do other than mindlessly killing mobs? Very few.

    PvP is just even worse because its only seen as a "kill or be killed" design, thus objectives of BGs are often disregarded for the primitive enjoyment of killing a player.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •