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  1. #1
    Banned Tennis's Avatar
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    Exclamation Finland’s brain drain: what happens to small countries when the talent leaves?

    Young Finnish professionals are attracted to major European capitals. They move to Stockholm, Berlin and Amsterdam, as well as farther away. The sun shines in Dubai; the world’s top organisations and institutes are in New York and Washington. The occupations of these migrants are manifold: bankers, graphic designers, computer engineers, photographers and researchers, to name only a few.

    They leave Finland because of poor employment opportunities and future prospects. This has been happening for a long time. Finns were moving to North America 100 years ago and to Sweden after World War II – in both cases because growing economies needed factory workers.

    The difference with today’s migrants is they are better educated and leaving a welfare state that ranks as one of the best places to live in the world according to most indices. The likelihood of them returning has nevertheless fallen sharply. Why?

    I conducted a survey of Finns living abroad aged 20 to 40 along with the Helsinki-based journalist Johannes Niemeläinen. Of 799 survey respondents, only 19 per cent saw returning as a likely option. This was down more than 20 percentage points on a 2006 survey, which had also included retirees who had settled abroad. When we compared only 20 to 40-year-olds, the decline was even sharper.

    This comes at a time when working-age emigration from Finland has steadily increased. The net loss of about 2,000 citizens in 2015 was almost four times that of 2009, and over half were university educated. Interestingly, the majority of leavers were women. Put together, we are talking about a case of brain drain that could have severe consequences.

    The broken circle

    A recent study of international perceptions of Finns working abroad found them to be highly adaptable, linguistically talented and sought after. The Finnish welfare state clearly provides its citizens with the skills and education to make it in the world.


    The government’s logic has long been that a well-trained, healthy workforce will return the favour later in life. Emigrants are supposed to come home with broader minds and international experience and contacts, to the benefit of the economy as a whole. All countries become embedded in the global economy one citizen at a time, goes the thinking.

    But why would they go back? The cracks in Finland’s supposed virtuous circle are all too apparent. The country attracts fewer immigrants from elsewhere in the EU than its Scandinavian peers. Even Helsinki does not keep up with the competition, with the number of highly educated 30 to 34-year-olds in decline. In other northerly capitals such as Copenhagen, Stockholm and London, the opposite is the case.

    Finland’s problem is not directly comparable to the mass migrations of workers in the past, driven by vast demographic, political and economic upheaval from the likes of the world wars. It is also not the same as the ongoing worldwide migration that we see from poorer to better off countries – which sadly now includes the likes of Spain and Greece.

    Instead, it speaks to larger structural changes in the postwar welfare state. Everything from retiring baby boomers to the rising cost of healthcare to the economic crisis have forced the Finnish state to cut back. The damage to the economy and the education system has encouraged young people to move abroad.

    Several high-profile academics have left Finland in protest at the circa €500m (£439m) cuts to higher education. Echoing this, we found that the likelihood of emigrants returning is down most sharply among PhD holders – a decrease of 36 percentage points since 2006. These academics tended to point to a direct correlation between cuts to education and their attitude to working in Finland. With other sectors, we found the same kind of attitudes.

    This illustrates that in the end, the question of returning home boils down to employment. And as Finland celebrates 100 years of independence, most respondents felt that the experience they have acquired abroad won’t translate into better employment back home.

    The greater threat

    Small welfare states like Finland are more dependent on their educated workforce than more market-driven countries. If they don’t educate enough new people or recruit them from elsewhere, it will create structural problems for the welfare economy such as the loss of foreign investment.

    And in a system that is heavily funded by the central government, cutbacks affect everyone much more than in a country where government spending is more concentrated on the poorest. This increases the chances of the most talented people leaving, which in turn risks undermining the country’s networks of knowledge and productive social relationships – often described as social capital. This forms the foundation of the whole welfare regime and acts as a buffer against external shocks, so there is a risk of system-wide effects.

    Coupled with further pressure on the welfare state from the ageing population, these developments have the potential to spiral irreversibly. We can liken this to oil leaking from an engine: it does not affect the machinery immediately, but over time it could damage it beyond repair.

    What then is the solution? In 16 follow-up interviews, we found our young professional respondents remained tremendously proud of the Finnish welfare regime and worried about it. They might have been drawn overseas, but they still very much believed in the system from which they had come.

    This points to the possibility of new forms of solidarity and welfarism that might yet somehow benefit countries like Finland. Tapping into this requires thinking beyond the nation state, create new transnational welfare regimes either by reaching out to emigrants or by cooperating with similar countries. This would of course be a radical shift. It may be necessary to prevent this brain drain problem from turning into a full-blown catastrophe.
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/lo...-a7812686.html

    Rather than stay and make their country a better place, they're running for greener pastures. Must be good to be a talent destination like Dubai, New York, Canada etc.

    It spells gloom if Finland can't retain its best and brightest.

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Tennisace View Post
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/lo...-a7812686.html

    Rather than stay and make their country a better place, they're running for greener pastures. Must be good to be a talent destination like Dubai, New York, Canada etc.

    It spells gloom if Finland can't retain its best and brightest.
    Ha! They didn't mention Canada in the article, thank you very much!
    .

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  3. #3
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    I don't understand peoples obsession with borders and staying inside it as if it's a crime to leave your birth country. I'm pretty sure Finland still got a lot of talent, as the country has some of the highest quality of life in the world. It's also the most metal country on earth, that alone makes it a great place.

    //Someone from Sweden, who wants to move to a mountan village in Slovakia or possibly an exotic island somewhere in the Atlantic. Both are possible since I make my living online.

  4. #4
    I'm pretty sure Canada has the same problem though...

  5. #5
    Banned Tennis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aggrophobic View Post
    I'm pretty sure Canada has the same problem though...
    No dude. Canada takes in hundreds of thousands of immigrants each year, many of them highly qualified. We're fine.

  6. #6
    All countries have this, and there's no "brain drain"... There's still plenty of talent to go around. Society doesn't function upon the backs of the people with the highest educations.

    It functions on the backs of people doing the dirty work, IE the vast majority.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Tennisace View Post
    No dude. Canada takes in hundreds of thousands of immigrants each year, many of them highly qualified. We're fine.
    800,000 people born in Canada currently live and work in the US, most with STEM degrees.

    Know your Canada.
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    The Unstoppable Force Puupi's Avatar
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    Brain drain happens everywhere.

    Finns moving abroad permanently is rather rare.

    The "brain drain" isn't an issue here, issue is that 1) our wages are too low for high education jobs 2) taxation is super high 3) everything is fucking expensive.

    Being technically a barren island is shitty compared to other countries surrounding us.
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    i was talking about horse cock again, told him to look at your sig.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Hubcap View Post
    800,000 people born in Canada currently live and work in the US, most with STEM degrees.

    Know your Canada.
    Who could blame them? It's like a gigantic Arkansas, with snow.
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    An alcoholic fighting his addiction is fighting a jihad.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Tennisace View Post
    No dude. Canada takes in hundreds of thousands of immigrants each year, many of them highly qualified. We're fine.
    That is not quite how it works.

  11. #11
    That explains what happened to Paragon!

    On a different note, I have not seen one single Finnish dude in Canada

  12. #12
    like how racquetball turned it into an immigration thing.

    australia has the same problem, cuz we don't pay them enough, or don't have the businesses/research setup.

  13. #13
    Banned Tennis's Avatar
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    We're talking about Finland. Please stay on topic. Large numbers leaving such a small country is very concerning. They need to up levels of immigration and refugee intake to make up for it.

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    Bloodsail Admiral Vapo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tennisace View Post
    We're talking about Finland. Please stay on topic. Large numbers leaving such a small country is very concerning. They need to up levels of immigration and refugee intake to make up for it.
    and what the fuck would low-skilled workers do when the problem seems to be high-educated leaving? Please tell me, what the fuck is the logic here?

    If they can even work in the first place, most refugees arriving dont have any skills,dont speak either finnish or english to even a degree, nor have any chance of qualifying for any meaningful job as even jobs like electrician have strict qualifications in here.
    Last edited by Vapo; 2017-07-04 at 12:58 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vapo View Post
    and what the fuck would low-skilled workers do when the problem seems to be high-educated leaving? Please tell me, what the fuck is the logic here?
    Well they could do like Canada and only take in refugees with degrees and then pretend they're helping people and not exploiting a war they helped create

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    Banned Tennis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vapo View Post
    and what the fuck would low-skilled workers do when the problem seems to be high-educated leaving? Please tell me, what the fuck is the logic here?
    It's a long term investment for Finland. Otherwise they will not be able to sustain the social welfare state.

  17. #17
    hahah good luck with immigrants learning finnish

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tennisace View Post
    We're talking about Finland. Please stay on topic. Large numbers leaving such a small country is very concerning. They need to up levels of immigration and refugee intake to make up for it.
    The article clearly state they can't attract highly educated worker, so how uping level of immigrations will magicaly help ? Please stay on topic. It's not about immigration at all. It's about making a country attractive to the intellectual elite and how a small country can compete with the lights of Dubai, New York and other big cities.

    They barely need more people, they need to retain the one they allready have.
    Quote Originally Posted by primalmatter View Post
    nazi is not the abbreviation of national socialism....
    When googling 4 letters is asking too much fact-checking.

  19. #19
    Bloodsail Admiral Vapo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tennisace View Post
    It's a long term investment for Finland. Otherwise they will not be able to sustain the social welfare state.
    Long term? how long term we talking here? Most refugees are literally charity cases that wont benefit society for decade if not ever. Some even carry over generations and end up with situations like sweden is facing where 2nd or 3rd generation immigrants arent even participating cuz they can just leech.


    Or yea, we could be like canada and cherrypick directly from the country only the best educated, the only people who might have the knowhow to fix their countries, and import them instead and boast on forums how they are "helping".

    Finland sure needs some immigration to keep up with the population structure, but importing masses of uneducated, unqualified, uninterested, incompatitible people doesnt make the issue better, just creates another 2 or 3 issues.

  20. #20
    Banned Tennis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Othraerir View Post
    hahah good luck with immigrants learning finnish
    Then become a bi lingual country. Most Scandinavian people speak English anyways.

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