Is the American dream really dead?

[Independent voter]

This The American Dream never existed, it has been the biggest lie since our beginning, we can't have a history that has resulted in this many have and have not's and the entire world depleted and knocking at our door step, while we spend and over whelming amount of resources.

What are you rambling about?

If "The American Dream" == home ownership than the American Dream is happening all over America.

[Doctor Amadeus]

What are you rambling about?

If "The American Dream" == home ownership than the American Dream is happening all over America.

Most don't own homes banks do and those people are debt up to their eyeballs to those still selling that American Dreams.

[Independent voter]

Most don't own homes banks do and those people are debt up to their eyeballs to those still selling that American Dreams.

Nearly every homeowner has a mortgage, it's a great tax write off. Why don't you know this?

[Zeta333]

Thought provoking article here.

https://www.theguardian.com/inequali...am-really-dead



That 2nd to last paragraph is so telling eh? The people who can benefit are voting against these programs. Nobody but themselves to blame.

do you just parrot every article online you find?

[Doctor Amadeus]

Nearly every homeowner has a mortgage, it's a great tax write off. Why don't you know this?

I don't but I also pay taxes. And my point was banks own their fucking homes they don't equity doesn't suggest ownership its a investment why don't you even understand this.

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do you just parrot every article online you find?

Seems to work for all the fake expert online at least its interesting

[Tennis]

I don't but I also pay taxes. And my point was banks own their fucking homes they don't equity doesn't suggest ownership its a investment why don't you even understand this.

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Seems to work for all the fake expert online at least its interesting

Not to mention how much does owning a home really mean in an area where real estate prices are ground bottom, crime is high and the environment is poor.

[Shadowferal]

American Dream Quantified

The phrase “American dream” was invented during the Great Depression. It comes from a popular 1931 book by the historian James Truslow Adams, who defined it as “that dream of a land in which life should be better and richer and fuller for everyone.”
In the decades that followed, the dream became a reality. Thanks to rapid, widely shared economic growth, nearly all children grew up to achieve the most basic definition of a better life — earning more money and enjoying higher living standards than their parents had.
------------------

That's not too bad.

[Doctor Amadeus]

Not to mention how much does owning a home really mean in an area where real estate prices are ground bottom, crime is high and the environment is poor.

Yep which is a huge reason the bubble burst in 07, millions of sub prime morgages and those who didnt took a bath and lost equity overnight the American Nightmare.

[Gorgodeus]

That's because the "American Dream" is not supposed to involve some government program. The dream is that you are supposed to be able to find a job (or come up with an idea or business plan) and through hard work- achieve more than your parents did.

There isn't room for a "government program" in there and it shouldn't be.

Whiel there are plenty of people that are quite happy to take advantage of the "government programs," most people want to make it on their own by their own wits. They don't really want that "helping hand."

Also, just the fact that the American dream might need a "government program" to make it work just demonstrates that the government hasn't been doing it's job lately. The American Dream never required "government programs" before. That it does now shows how poorly the government has been doing.

The biggest boom to the "American Dream", which involved home ownership on 1 income, just so happened to include one of the largest gov't programs over. The G.I. Bill. So your premise is factually incorrect.

[Independent voter]

The biggest boom to the "American Dream", which involved home ownership on 1 income, just so happened to include one of the largest gov't programs over. The G.I. Bill. So your premise is factually incorrect.

Currently, there are 1.9 million active VA-guaranteed loans that make up over $350 billion. The average loan amount for service members last year was $225,604, according to Meagan Lutz, a spokeswoman for the VA.

http://www.military.com/money/home-o...rd-levels.html

So since the end of WWII that's a lot of houses. I couldn't find an exact number but if 1.9 million loans are active now, it has to be in the 10's of millions.

[Jastall]

I mean, what kind of American Dream?

If it's the one where the USA is a land of opportunity and social mobility, it's still alive to a greater or lesser degree depending on a few factors.

If you're thinking of being able to afford a house, a car, entertainment, and taking care of two kids on one wage right after coming out of High School... then yeah, that's dead and buried since a few decades.

[Gorgodeus]

Currently, there are 1.9 million active VA-guaranteed loans that make up over $350 billion. The average loan amount for service members last year was $225,604, according to Meagan Lutz, a spokeswoman for the VA.

http://www.military.com/money/home-o...rd-levels.html

So since the end of WWII that's a lot of houses. I couldn't find an exact number but if 1.9 million loans are active now, it has to be in the 10's of millions.

The G.I. Bill was instrumental in the Baby Boom and the economic boom of the US after WWII.

It established veterans’ hospitals, provided for vocational rehabilitation, made low-interest mortgages available, and granted stipends covering tuition and living expenses for veterans attending college or trade schools.

From 1944 to 1949, nearly 9 million veterans received close to $4 billion from the G.I. bill’s unemployment compensation program. The education and training provisions existed until 1956, providing benefits to nearly 10 million veterans. The Veterans’ Administration offered insured loans until 1962, and they totaled more than $50 billion. The economic assistance provided by the G.I. bill and the Veterans’ Administration accelerated the postwar demand for goods and services.
http://www.history.com/topics/world-war-ii/gi-bill

[hakujinbakasama]

The problem is that the concept of the American Dream is wide and often user specific. To me, it's always been about independence and the ability to rise up further than from where you started. In my personal experience, the only people who believe that ideal is dead are people who have zero drive to work for anything and cannot stop buying stupid shit while posting 1000 times a day on Twitter or fb.

[Deleted]

Gotta love the people talking about *muh hard work*. When in the 50's you could get a job at a gas station, with only high school done and comfortably support a family. Now college (and debt) is almost mandatory to have any chance at a decent job. You can't move out because housing prices are insane. The whole economy today is shit. Only focused on fleecing the populace at every step, while pretending it's *good* because a country's GDP or a company's stock index increased for 0,5%.

But no of course, that has nothing to do with it. It's the people's fault. Obviously everyone can just become a doctor or a programmer and find a decent job overnight!

[Mormolyce]

Social mobility is actually exceptionally poor in the US.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_mobility

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If it's the one where the USA is a land of opportunity and social mobility, it's still alive to a greater or lesser degree depending on a few factors.

I'd have to dispute that. The facts say the opposite.

[enragedgorilla]

In my case?
No , it is not.

I have a job, with good benefits and a retirement program.(here is the kicker I do not have a degree at all, just a few certifications..yeah I know....scary ! Someone who did "trade schools" is doing well!!)
I am SINGLE and have ZERO intention of having kids or being married.
I have an amazing and loving family around me.
I own/am paying for my house.
I lease cars.
My "dream" is doing just fine.

(I feel wrong having replied,thrown into to a thread the OP posted)

[Shadowferal]

Those that claim the dream is still alive are those born into the right families.

[Ghostpanther]

Those that claim the dream is still alive are those born into the right families.

I was born in a migrant farm working family. We would travel around the US, following the seasons for crops and during the winter, would survive from odd jobs here and their and assistance from local food pantries, etc. Have slept on straw in rat infested barns, went hungry, cold. To get a idea of how it was, watch the old movie or read the book, Grapes of Wrath". A very hard working, poor life.

When I turned 17, I joined the Army to get away from that life style. Did my 3 years, got out and got a job in a factory and when the opportunity came to work for the government, took a large pay cut for better benefits and today, I am retired, own my home ( no mortgage ) on a little pc of paradise of 14 acres, live well, eat well, drive a fairly new SUV, I would say I am a good example of going from rags to the richness billions of people in the world would love to have.

The American dream is well and alive. However, what it does and has always required, is hard work and sacrifices. Too many times, people will have the attitude of , " We are so poor, the baby has to sleep in the box the color TV came in ". I saw this attitude in my own family many times and some continued to live that way til they died. They had no desire or determination to make things better, but instead would try to blame everything or everyone rather than themselves for being so poor.

You need to reach out and grab onto your dreams.

[Ivanstone]

From 1944 to 1949, nearly 9 million veterans received close to $4 billion from the G.I. bill’s unemployment compensation program. The education and training provisions existed until 1956, providing benefits to nearly 10 million veterans. The Veterans’ Administration offered insured loans until 1962, and they totaled more than $50 billion. The economic assistance provided by the G.I. bill and the Veterans’ Administration accelerated the postwar demand for goods and services.[/B]
http://www.history.com/topics/world-war-ii/gi-bill

Wow, that's a lot of money. I wonder how the government managed to pay for all of that. Hmmm.....

[Shadowferal]

Too many don't have families that they could have relied upon. Being born into a ghetto, my options were too few. Working two full time jobs...I couldn't do that again. The only viable option would be to make a career in the military. Other option include a dubious job at the local corner..or get lucky somehow.
I got lucky and got a nice union job. (Funny how I did get an offer later during this time at something very dubious...but decent pay. Had I still been in the ghetto I likely wouldn't be posting here now)
The upshot is, when it's just you and you are fighting to get the hell out of poverty, well these days, the realization that such a fight is going to be every day for the rest of your life can sometimes be crushing. And this idea of an "American Dream...?" WTF is that? OH I know what was posted above, but that looks more and more like a belief in unicorns. (That I can post on the internet is a nice reality check that my personal situation has improved. (Not much, I am after all on a dial-up) But I'm not sanguine about this "American Dream." I'm one job loss away from going back to where I started.