[Guardian] 7.2.5 Legion Guardian Guide by Pumps

[Deleted]

People need to stop using pants really. Boots/neck/soulring with are better defensive options (considering already running chest) and wrist/cloak are better offensive options.

I was running Wrists+Legs when I did it. The legs provide just enough survivability to make me perfectly stable. I'd say theres merit for compromise. Going full DPS is likely risky, but theres no need to go full "Prydaz+Eko" survivability mode either. The Legs are the perfect middle ground imo.

[Deleted]

Can you Insert your simucraft Rotation you Use for Simulation? (including incarnation)

Not right now, @work. Gist of it was

Moonfire,if=(remains<gcd)
Rage_of_the_sleeper
Berserking
Horn_of_Valor%,if=(buff.incarnation.up)
Thrash_Bear
Incarnation
Mangle
Moonfire,if=(remains<4.8)
Maul,if=(rage>90)
Swipe_Bear

It is rudimentary, but most of the changes needed from this onwards are for different talents, defensives and AoE, so not necessary for your question right now. The condition to line up Horn with Incarn has been commented out, you can just re add it by removing the %. Incarn is delayed because there is no point in using it if Thrash is off CD anyway, so you use it after the first thrash. Minor possible tweak would be to make sure that you have more than 10 sec left on MF when you use RotS, so you don't have to reapply it during the buff. Reapplying MF during Incarn is correct if most of the MF duration is during Incarn, slight tweaks would be needed to make sure you don't use the last GCD in Inc to reapply since that is probably a loss, but a minor one.

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I was running Wrists+Legs when I did it. The legs provide just enough survivability to make me perfectly stable. I'd say theres merit for compromise. Going full DPS is likely risky, but theres no need to go full "Prydaz+Eko" survivability mode either. The Legs are the perfect middle ground imo.

That, also the dps difference is small between Legs and Cloak (4% in my sims on pure ST). So I am more concearned with whether I want the damage reduction or the tick healing. Both have their uses though. Thinking about using the cloak in M+ and pulling from moonkin form with sunfire, so that the dot is buffed when I switch to bear form.

[Arlee]

I just found out how awesome we are on kiljaeden with ironfur. Bristling fur is up for every fel slash. Resulting in 0 cooldowns used ever. My cotank DK needs 4 externals and his own CDs to survive

He also can't survive a big meteor without cds. I can easily with just 1 ironfur.

Yea I tank with a DK as well and noticed the same thing. Also since I'm more mobile than him I have a much easier time getting into the Armageddons. Though I didn't take Bristling fur. I've been using the leg trinket and legs, and the use + RotS for the slashes seemed like it worked really well and was up every time.

[Nevcairiel]

On normal KJ last night I literally take half the damage from his melee and fel slash then the DH I tanked with (and not even counting the HP difference). He barely survives everytime and I barely notice something is going on with Bristling Fur and >=3 stacks of IF up.

[Wengel]

On normal KJ last night I literally take half the damage from his melee and fel slash then the DH I tanked with (and not even counting the HP difference). He barely survives everytime and I barely notice something is going on with Bristling Fur and >=3 stacks of IF up.

On heroic you'll notice a huge difference.
My co-tank (monk) requires externals to survive past Slash 3 reliably.
I sit on 5-6 stacks of Ironfur (6 is actually wasted cause you armor cap at 5) and barely even notices the hp move - without using any cd's at all.
Use a FR at the end if really needed but yea - Bristling Fur is insane for that fight.
Time it right (meaning pop it about 2 seconds after his fel claws-cast finishes) so you get maximum use of the 8 seconds duration.

[dcc626]

On heroic you'll notice a huge difference.
My co-tank (monk) requires externals to survive past Slash 3 reliably.
I sit on 5-6 stacks of Ironfur (6 is actually wasted cause you armor cap at 5) and barely even notices the hp move - without using any cd's at all.
Use a FR at the end if really needed but yea - Bristling Fur is insane for that fight.
Time it right (meaning pop it about 2 seconds after his fel claws-cast finishes) so you get maximum use of the 8 seconds duration.

well, monk can basically ignore claws entirely with dampen harm (every other set)

[Valkon]

Yea monks are even crazier on it than we are. My monk cotank went up to 12-13 stacks without even flinching.

[Deleted]

Your monk tank can't be all that good then, you can easelly do 2 sets of claws in a row as a monk without using externals.

[Laorii]

I have a trinket question, if you fellow bears would be so kind to help.

I have been using the ilvl 900 Darkmoon card ilvl and 890 Infernal Contract. I've just received a 910 Shifting Cosmic Sliver. Is it time to retire my DMC? I get a lot of use out of the Infernal Contract.

[Nevcairiel]

I would replace the contract with it, to be honest. There is only few situations where its truely useful.

[Deleted]

Cosmic Sliver and Infernal Contract are very situational trinkets. I can't think of a boss in ToS right now where I would want to run the former and I have only run the latter on Gul'dan M for Fel Scythe soaking.

In Dungeons DMC:I will probably be the most useful of the 3, as I can't really imagine many situations where you need longer or more frequent SI.

The only raid situation I could imagine for Sliver would be KJ, when you get melted by the Fel Claws together with Survival of the Fittest and Dual Determination to always have SI for the last 2 hits, but yeah that seems really overkill. Most fights seem to be way more about overall damage intake than really dangerous spike hits.

[Plasmaxyz]

Cosmic Sliver and Infernal Contract are very situational trinkets. I can't think of a boss in ToS right now where I would want to run the former and I have only run the latter on Gul'dan M for Fel Scythe soaking.

In Dungeons DMC:I will probably be the most useful of the 3, as I can't really imagine many situations where you need longer or more frequent SI.

The only raid situation I could imagine for Sliver would be KJ, when you get melted by the Fel Claws together with Survival of the Fittest and Dual Determination to always have SI for the last 2 hits, but yeah that seems really overkill. Most fights seem to be way more about overall damage intake than really dangerous spike hits.

You only need Bristling Fur for fel claws, the cooldown is low enough that you'll be able to use it for every single fel claws you take. Any other cd on top of that is overkill and unneeded.

[Deleted]

You only need Bristling Fur for fel claws, the cooldown is low enough that you'll be able to use it for every single fel claws you take. Any other cd on top of that is overkill and unneeded.

No idea, you are probably right, but I guess neither of us has seen the fight on mythic yet.

[CenariusTheForestLord]

No idea, you are probably right, but I guess neither of us has seen the fight on mythic yet.

Every fel claw takes less than 10% with BF. It would be impressive if they make the ability hit over ten times more on mythic.

[Deleted]

Every fel claw takes less than 10% with BF. It would be impressive if they make the ability hit over ten times more on mythic.

Any other suggestions where Cosmic Sliver could be useful? Because that was the only high damage mechanic in ToS I could think of that would be frequent enough to warrant the trinket if it was tuned high enough.

[Rioo]

Yea monks are even crazier on it than we are. My monk cotank went up to 12-13 stacks without even flinching.

At least on normal it caps at 10 stacks.

[Sonnillon]

Is there a point in breaking the T19 (old?) 4 set for few pieces of +10 to +20ish ilvl upgrade? Cause right now I am at this point where I have few upgrades waiting, but no new set at items to use.
I have a good head piece and decent cloak with nice ilvl waiting for me, but I don't see an option how can I keep my set with the swap. I can swap one of the items if I drop Ecowraith and use a 895 tier piece in it's place, but at the same time I don't have any other decent legendaries to use as my second one other then the SI ring which I don't use that much or the bracers, however I still feel that chest is a good piece to have.
Any suggestions? My bears armory can be found in my sig.

[Deleted]

The benefit of T19 4p is more rage. So far I have not felt rage starved after breaking it. Very hard to say precisely where it is worth it since it can hardly be simmed.

I broke mine, when I had 15 ilvl more on Chest and 20 ilvl more on Cloak, because I figured more base stats>more rage.

[Laorii]

Cosmic Sliver and Infernal Contract are very situational trinkets. I can't think of a boss in ToS right now where I would want to run the former and I have only run the latter on Gul'dan M for Fel Scythe soaking.

In Dungeons DMC:I will probably be the most useful of the 3, as I can't really imagine many situations where you need longer or more frequent SI.

The only raid situation I could imagine for Sliver would be KJ, when you get melted by the Fel Claws together with Survival of the Fittest and Dual Determination to always have SI for the last 2 hits, but yeah that seems really overkill. Most fights seem to be way more about overall damage intake than really dangerous spike hits.

Thanks, I get what you're saying. I've made the assumption of using it over one of the other based on it being listed as BiS by pumps. Unfortunately I don't have an excess to choose from, so I guess I'll stay with what I have.

[Plasmaxyz]

So what does everyone think of our new T21 set bonuses?

Item - Druid T21 Guardian 2P Bonus - Gore Proc Reduces Surv Instinct Cooldown (New) When Gore activates, the cooldown of Survival Instincts is reduced by 0 sec.
Item - Druid T21 Guardian 4P Bonus - Mangle Procs Leech Maul (New) Mangle has a 0% chance to make your next Maul cost 0 Rage and heal you for 0% of the damage dealt.

Obviously the numbers aren't final but I don't know how I feel about them trying to force us to use maul now. I'd be happy if it was off the GCD.