"standard" ilvl for M+15?

[MiseryIndex]

I get declined for shit like +7 on my 910 hpal alt on a regular basis... I guess we have a shitty rep dating from overflowing days or smth ?

^ QFT. I've sat in queues for hours for playing what people perceive to be a weak spec for m+. 920 equipped, 1500+ M+ score, Keystone Master. Honestly the best bet is running with people you know.

[SuckMyShield]

i did upper kara 15 y'day, we had 919-930 ilvls.
we died 68 times.
so yeh.

[Dismembered]

You can appear on the leaderboard for the realm of any person in the group.

And the leader is looking for that person which you did the key with while you are in the queue, okay. Only if you remember the names of your group mates and if they are from a realm where nobody did this before etc. it would make a sense, otherwise no, so it is still a stupid thing to go only for the m+ score.

[sharteel]

As other said, it's not (just) a matter of ilvl (910 is fine for +15), but a matter of how many people queue, expecially as dps. Yesterday I was in a pug, we needed 2 dps for +15, in 3 seconds there were 38 applicants...so good luck with that lol XD

[Deleted]

I think I will risk being wrong....

Unless you have a very, very good group, Arcway on these affixes (explosive, teaming, fortified) is a hard dungeon. Certain packs are straight up awful. However 3-chesting is quite possible and it indeed has been done. Nevertheless you classifying it as "piss easy" together with your claim about average 911 ilvl is fishy. I would say that even the top end dungeon runners wouldn't say 3-chesting the place this week is "piss easy".

... also combine it with the fact that this is the lowest ilvl run I managed to find and I am pretty confident that "something is not quite right" . Would you care sharing some logs or whatever?

In other words: Welcome to mmc where everyone is exceptionally good, everything is easy, and a lot off people are actually lying out of their ass.

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It also used to be totally trivial to run +10 for the max ilvl weekly reward. That is currently no longer the case. +15 is certainly doable just fine especially if you don't have to time it, however it is significantly harder compared to what it used to be during 7.2.0

I posted last week tho ? Was tyrannical raging volcanic I think ?

[Master Guns]

You hardly need a 915 healer for a 15, dps sure but a healer can heal a 15 at 900.

[Magnagarde]

It also used to be totally trivial to run +10 for the max ilvl weekly reward. That is currently no longer the case. +15 is certainly doable just fine especially if you don't have to time it, however it is significantly harder compared to what it used to be during 7.2.0

Yeah, it sure is. This week's modifiers are annoying as hell to top it all off.

If I didn't have my guildies with which I do mythic raid progression, I'd probably never even lay my eyes upon a higher level keystone because people keep going for wowprogress scores.

[Casagrande]

I would never pug anyone for a +15. You can put requirements like ilvl, concordance, legendaries, etc. but there are somehow still shit players who can meet any requirement you can think of.

[Usagi Senshi]

Pugged up to a +13, we had a good group, but got a shit tank for the +15 and yeah, didn't finish that one. Will have to try to find another "pushing" pug.

Ilvl of that group was around 910.

[Marrilaife]

Its not hard with good dps who knows what to interrupt and kill for exemple "fel bombs" fast,

Some classes are better some are worse for this but I swear most pugs just aoe like mad and then you just wipe. I did m+ this week on 2 tanks and a hunter, on all 3 chars I topped the damage on fel explosives and had some ppl like this 904 fire mage in a +7 who not only did zero damage to fel orbs but also did less dps overall than my 885 hunter when I was wasting half my focus on orbs. Oh yea, and on the run with my hunter the tank was second on orbs too. Most pug dps are just lazy.

M+ score is not foolproof either, I remember pugging this Russian shaman who had top m+ score on his realm and then he dropped the group midway and did overall less dps than a guildie of a friend we replaced him with, and that "guildie of a friend" had not much m+ score and was back then in some guild that was stuck on 3m NH for ages, so you wouldn't see anything amazing on his profile either. We were all thinking how the f*** did this first guy have stuff like 21 in time during early NH when his dps was so low. To emphasize, it was early NH time when ppl didn't run 27s and such, world top was 23 or 24 back then.

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Pugged up to a +13, we had a good group, but got a shit tank for the +15 and yeah, didn't finish that one. Will have to try to find another "pushing" pug.

Ilvl of that group was around 910.

Tbh if you just want weekly, like I do, what matters the most is whether people are decent human beings or dickbags, and you can't quantify that through any metric. For example last week I pugged HOV+14 and it upgraded to lower kara 15, we all knew it won't go pretty, took us 1,5 hour but we finished it, I checked group members after, most were under 910 and without concordance and healer was 897 with 47 traits. But we did it. I got my chest and coolio.

This week I join COS+13 and I did 1 bad pull whole dungeon and 1 guy starts flaming me, so I left after. If he gets salty now it's only gonna get worse when we get to 15. Best thing was that guy didn't even know the mage can click the enchanting lamp (he was a mage), but played all high and mighty with us. Cba with this kind of pugs.

I deliberately try to avoid pugs that already have hostile descriptions (like "don't be shit" "no noobs" etc.).

[Usagi Senshi]

I deliberately try to avoid pugs that already have hostile descriptions (like "don't be shit" "no noobs" etc.).

I always report those and move on TBH. Way ahead of you.

Hostile and inappropriate descriptions don't belong in that type of tool.

Also by "shit" tank, he was purposely moving trash around and and over-pulling mobs in VotW. Dude was being an ass.

[Marrilaife]

I always report those and move on TBH. Way ahead of you.

Hostile and inappropriate descriptions don't belong in that type of tool.

Also by "shit" tank, he was purposely moving trash around and and over-pulling mobs in VotW. Dude was being an ass.

Yeah can't really measure if a person is decent or asshole through ilvl, wowprogress score, armory or any other metric, only way is to know the person beforehand (run with friends / guild), had my deal of assholes like a healer in eoa13 who thought we were going too slow and pulled deliberately some extra giants then dropped the group.

About report, I kinda lost my faith in that tool, Blizzard doesn't even clear the obvious spambots that pollute the groupfinder with "visit our website for the best deals on boosts", at least I'm glad badboy addon takes care of it since few months ago. In WOD it was horrendous to crawl through all the spam in group finder. And yes, I used to report them, to no visible effect. It was good improvement to badboy adding the one-click-report option, I still click it but I doubt it has much influence on anything.

[Taiina]

No it is not because of:



If you are on a big Server with many ppl running M+ stuff at reset day and you are doing it let's say at the weekend because you didn't have time to make it earlier, you're screwed, therefor M+ Score on wowhead is poop.

Fair point, but as a general rule of thumb, it's a pretty good indication when pugging to push a key because you'll be going for a fairly high score, which no matter what server you're on, will almost definitely be obtainable.
It's better than ilvl or keystone master, but that's imo.

[Deleted]

Some classes are better some are worse for this but I swear most pugs just aoe like mad and then you just wipe. I did m+ this week on 2 tanks and a hunter, on all 3 chars I topped the damage on fel explosives and had some ppl like this 904 fire mage in a +7 who not only did zero damage to fel orbs but also did less dps overall than my 885 hunter when I was wasting half my focus on orbs. Oh yea, and on the run with my hunter the tank was second on orbs too. Most pug dps are just lazy.

I had to chuckle at this... Oh my tanks and my hunter did the most damage to fel explosives. Really? It might have something to do with both of them having the capability to do instant damage to them. A fire mage needs to either cast or have an instant off cooldown. Fel Orbs are just terrible for casters because they have so little life that they die before the cast is even finished. That's why you always have either a melee, a tank or a hunter do them.

It's actually beneficial for the group if the casters focus on the rest instead of the orbs to optimize group dps. Only when there are too many orbs, do the casters help.

But I guess it's much easier to call everyone "bad" and "noob" than putting yourself into their shoes and thinking 5 meter ahead of your own ego...

[groparu]

I had to chuckle at this... Oh my tanks and my hunter did the most damage to fel explosives. Really? It might have something to do with both of them having the capability to do instant damage to them. A fire mage needs to either cast or have an instant off cooldown. Fel Orbs are just terrible for casters because they have so little life that they die before the cast is even finished. That's why you always have either a melee, a tank or a hunter do them.
It's actually beneficial for the group if the casters focus on the rest instead of the orbs to optimize group dps. Only when there are too many orbs, do the casters help.
But I guess it's much easier to call everyone "bad" and "noob" than putting yourself into their shoes and thinking 5 meter ahead of your own ego...

I am having an even worse time killing orbs on my arcane mage alt since there is only 1 single spell that can kill them, arcane blast. Really frustrating is that I know I can't do anything about it and that during explosive weeks , ranged casters are avoided.

[Marrilaife]

But I guess it's much easier to call everyone "bad" and "noob" than putting yourself into their shoes and thinking 5 meter ahead of your own ego...

Yep, doing Arcway with 2 dk dps and 1 ret pala, poor guys, they have no abilities to hit explosive? Same on my hunter, there was a DH in the group that not only did 200k dps in 890 ilvl but barely scratched the explosives. The fire mage was the only guy excused from orbs I'd say that's why I pointed out "some classes are worse at this" but then at least he should top the meters overall as he has the best aoe capabilities and had higher ilvl than my hunter and the DH. If you don't do the orbs at least do the dps?

Best thing is on my main I have exactly 2 abilities that can hit fel orbs because everything else is counted as aoe and doesn't hit them, so I have to tailor my rotation around saving these abilities for orbs, but pugs do not want to do this. Many casters have instants they can throw at orbs, not "just hunters", basically every ranged class except mage has an off-cd instant cast spell.

I'd rather not have to call pugs "bad and noob" and enjoy my pugging experience, but hard to do so when you invite a 920 lock and he does barely more dps than the tank or a 904 ret pala and he gets outdpsed by an 885 hunter, and yea I get ret palas are not in a good spot atm for single target / raiding, but for aoe they're still fine. Blaming it on the class won't do any good either because that should mean you need to stop inviting certain classes to m+, and that's even more "discriminatory".

My guildies don't have any low geared alts they care to run lower keys on (like +7 to +9) so I had to pug a lot this week, and generally the state of pugs is very, very sad. 2 times I did Arcway where both linked people didn't move an inch on the spider boss and just died (with completely different groups). Once I join EOA8 and we wipe 3 times on the first boss and disband.

Elitism in pugs is only halfway explained by "ppl have big ego and want to be carried", the other half comes from streaks of horrible, awful experiences with the "community" where everyone is 900+ (unless a fresh alt) but like 80% of the people who queue don't know their class or the dungeon.

[Dracodraco]

I am having an even worse time killing orbs on my arcane mage alt since there is only 1 single spell that can kill them, arcane blast. Really frustrating is that I know I can't do anything about it and that during explosive weeks , ranged casters are avoided.

You can hit them with targetted AOE now (EG, whatever arcane spell it is you have that splits from the initial target). Our Arcane mage had no issues hitting orbs because of that. I can also hit them with heart strike on my blood DK (as long as they're the initial target), and multi shot on my hunter (as long as they're the initial target).

[Sarevokcz]

You can hit them with targetted AOE now (EG, whatever arcane spell it is you have that splits from the initial target). Our Arcane mage had no issues hitting orbs because of that. I can also hit them with heart strike on my blood DK (as long as they're the initial target), and multi shot on my hunter (as long as they're the initial target).

didnt seem to work with throw glaive or blade dance still

[Dracodraco]

didnt seem to work with throw glaive or blade dance still

*shrug* I don't play a DH. Are both of those targetted AOEs? It doesn't work with Barrage because you don't need a target. It doesn't work with Blood Boil because you don't need a target. Only with TARGETTED aoe.

[Sarevokcz]

*shrug* I don't play a DH. Are both of those targetted AOEs? It doesn't work with Barrage because you don't need a target. It doesn't work with Blood Boil because you don't need a target. Only with TARGETTED aoe.

glaive is, blade dance isnt even while it has primary target bonus damage, neither does seem to work for whatever reason, making it pretty meh for non-demonic DH, as only abilities that actually hit orbs are chaos strike, which you need resources to use and 15s cd felblade