Bad battlegrounds gives incentive for bots

[Ralikon]

There are some really shitty BGs.

I won't even name any, simply because I know most will agree on which are particularly terrible. Of these bad BGs, I argue >5% of players actually enjoy them, while the remainder of players absolutely resent them. Perhaps they tolerate them, through conditioning, but given the choice, they'd prefer a different BG. These BGs are often slow-paced and require a larger amount of players, in relation to other BGs. So, to cater to the ~5%, the game forces players to agree to play something that they don't want to play.

This sucks and all, but it shows the truth of a bigger problem.

Providing bonus rewards when queuing for random battlegrounds forces players to participate in something they may not enjoy. The current system of two blacklist options isn't enough to justify a bad player experience, especially when it's only in place to cater to a low population.

So, what do the ~95% of players do to combat these shit BGs? They either deal with them and move on, or they resort to botting so they don't have to deal with a bad experience.

Of course, the 'grinding aspect' of the game is largely what players bot. However, forcing players to participate in something they legitimately don't enjoy, is simply terrible game design. (you don't boot up Call of Duty, queue TDM, only to get placed in a fucking ground war)


TL;DR: forcing players to participate in BGs they dislike isn't the entire reason people bot, but is one of the incentives.

[RelaZ]

You mean IoC and AV. And yes, all actual PvPers have them blacklisted (except when they're alliance and gearing, when that was still a thing - because they're ally free wins). They're trash. But PvErs love the nostalgic memory of them and thus they can't be scrapped/perma-blacklisted (even though said PvErs barely do 1 PvP activity a year).

[Ralikon]

You mean IoC and AV. And yes, all actual PvPers have them blacklisted (except when they're alliance and gearing, when that was still a thing - because they're ally free wins). They're trash. But PvErs love the nostalgic memory of them and thus they can't be scrapped/perma-blacklisted (even though said PvErs barely do 1 PvP activity a year).

Strand too.

It's good you brought up PvE, because of the BGs named, all three utilize PvE aspects (i.e. something to be attacked that isn't a player). No other BG does this.

[Explicit Teemo Nudes]

And why isn't the option to blacklist these bgs enough? Blacklist AV and IoC and you will have your "real pvp". Problem solved.
You don't have to attack the vehicles in SotA. There will be max 4 players in the vehicles(usually less), so there are plenty of other targets for you to focus on.

This doesn't justify botting. Nothing does. There are other types of games if you don't like the MMORPG style.

[Ralikon]

And why isn't the option to blacklist these bgs enough? Blacklist AV and IoC and you will have your "real pvp". Problem solved.

The problem is that the ratio of blacklists to shit BGs is unequal.

[jackofwind]

And why isn't the option to blacklist these bgs enough? Blacklist AV and IoC and you will have your "real pvp". Problem solved.

Because most of the new era BGs are trash too.

[Charge me Doctor]

No, the only thing that "incentifies" people to bot are people themselves and their feel of entitlement. BGs aren't mandatory, and you can blacklist some of them. And seriously, random BGs? Is this what people say "real pvp" now?

[Explicit Teemo Nudes]

Because most of the new era BGs are trash too.

I really dislike them(mines, gorge) too, but they are still as much pvp as WSG and AB.

[permp]

And why isn't the option to blacklist these bgs enough? Blacklist AV and IoC and you will have your "real pvp". Problem solved.

All the pandaria BG's are boring.

[Ralikon]

No, the only thing that "incentifies" people to bot are people themselves and their feel of entitlement. BGs aren't mandatory, and you can blacklist some of them. And seriously, random BGs? Is this what people say "real pvp" now?

Hold to that all you want, "there's no justifying bad shit", and I won't say you're necessarily wrong. However, placing a 'bonus reward' on a system that forces players to do shit that they don't want to do is bad design.

The bonus acts as an incentive. The bad player experience is baked into it.

[Better]

And why isn't the option to blacklist these bgs enough? .

While avidly against botting, and I think any ban that results from using said bots should be permanent, there simply aren't enough blacklist options for me. I'd need 4 or 5 to be happy. (IoC, AV, Strand, Deepwind, and sometimes Silvershard)

[Fabled]

Personally I have WSG and TP blacklisted, for I feel they are the trash bgs,I don't mind the other ones that much.

[jackofwind]

I really dislike them(mines, gorge) too, but they are still as much pvp as WSG and AB.

I don't disagree, I just hate playing them and getting them in random BG queues is a major reason that I avoid queuing for randoms. At this point the maps are too shit for me to enjoy playing them and I'd rather just queue for specifics and do other stuff while I wait. That's a pretty sad state IMO.

[Caolela]

Blizz usually just perma-bans gold botters and acct. sharing/piloting because they see them as taking money from Blizz and Blizz hates it. Even then they often don't get permas but temp bans so they come back.

Most of the time they don't bother much on the cheats that are problematic for legit players - like kickbots, lag spikes/hacks, rotation bots - some of which are used by raiders too, not just PvPers. If they swung the banhammer seriously and consistently, they'd lose more accts./players than they'd like and a lot of free eyeballs from the streamers and YT'ers people watch to see the "best" players.

You can bet your last Mageweave bag that Blizz does every single thing with profit consideration first & foremost and plenty of PR marketing (mostly BS), not what players think is best for the game.

[Illana]

I hate IoC and have had it blacklisted ever since it was possible, funny thing is that as horde I have over a 50% win rate over 120+ battles there.

The other BG I have blacklisted is temple of Kotmogu, I seem to get it way more than other BGs and it gets boring so fast.

Actually enjoy AV since I usually sit in a bunker and knock people out of it which is great fun

[Deleted]

People automate when they like the reward but hate the job.

You can't raise the quality of bg's to make PvE players like PvP but they surely like the rewards - hence the result: they have motivation to automate it.
As long as you can get neat stuff like mounts&heirlooms some will automate it to get the rewards.

Same in reverse are people buying raid carries cause they can't be bothered to raid legit and just want the rewards.

[RussW210]

Honestly, 90% of BG's that I play I can accurately predict the outcome in the first 45 seconds of the game. Whether it's getting GY camped on Warsong, steamrolling a team at waterworks, etc. You just see your teams skill, and then the scattered spawns are icing on the cake. I'm sure everyone's been in this scenario:

- Kotmogu
- Enemy team has 2 godly healers with high mobility and they have 3-4 orbs at the center already
- Your team has no healers so there's no point

I only enjoy BG's with multiple objectives because they play more like a MOBA. Even if your team is absolute dog crap, you can still occasionally find a "lane" that's in your favor. You may have no impact on the outcome on maps like Alterac and IoC, but at least you're getting to play over being GY camped and trying to run into a wave of impossible to kill healers.

Outside of talking about the maps, the most fun games are when there are no healers. Sure you spend a little time running back, but jesus christ is it frustrating when you can't kill a team of scrubs because his healer is godly and untouchable.

Then there's the rare (though 10% of the time is not rare) games where one of the teams has 4-5 people from the same server including a heal, tank, and DPS who all follow in unison. I honestly think they should get rid of being able to queue for battlegrounds in a group outside of 2 people. Otherwise they should face extreme wait times and be forced against other premades. Even Call Of Duty has mercenary mode for people who don't want to be rolled over by people in organized chat.

[Klingers]

Of course, the 'grinding aspect' of the game is largely what players bot. However, forcing players to participate in something they legitimately don't enjoy, is simply terrible game design.

By that logic everything from to timegates on reputations and quest content, to the legendary system, to timewalking currency grinds, to the Artifact Power system as a whole are bad game design.

Actually, screw it. All of those things are bad game design. Good business sense for player retention, shitty and psychologically manipulative reward loops that ruin the game for players.

[Phookah]

Hold to that all you want, "there's no justifying bad shit", and I won't say you're necessarily wrong. However, placing a 'bonus reward' on a system that forces players to do shit that they don't want to do is bad design.

The bonus acts as an incentive. The bad player experience is baked into it.

Every pvp game makes you do shit you may not enjoy. You don't enjoy every single map or build or class or spec or whatever you may have to use playing competitive surely? I mean, I love Overwatch but I hate certain maps. Doesn't mean I'm going to cry about having to play them occasionally as they come up in random rotation, or having to play a support/tank as needed.

[Xloudman]

Ascended Tier:
Warsong Gulch

Amazing Tier:
Arathi Basin
Gilneas

Good Tier:
Twin Peaks
Alterac Valley
Silvershard

Somewhat Playable Tier:
Kotmogu
Deepwind Gorge
Strand

Probably Holinka's Favorites:
Eye of the Storm
Isle of Conquest