Is WoW getting easier or players are getting better?

[Belisaurio]

Even then, half the raid was AFK

That's not true.
MC had some fight that people just coudn't do shit, and others that only required sheer numbers to beat them (if we have X healing+Y resists+Zdps, we can do it, so all other players that are not needed to reach that numbers "can" stay afk).
But you are talking about vanilla? So AQ40, BWL, Zul'Gurub, Naxx...yeah, alot of people did all this raids being afk...

I can say that I saw more ppl being afk in LFR than vanilla raids.

[Deleted]

I just watching a video on YouTube that shows who had the 1st kill on bosses. Compare to nowadays, it used to take a months to take down a raid/dungeon bosses. But now, it takes less than a week or couple of weeks max to take down the highest difficulty aka Mythic. Is it getting easier or players are just getting good?

Method just wiped 450 times on Avatar before the kill. The sheer amount of wipe should be enough to stop 99% of people any further attempt.

This is only ONE boss vs. the best raid setup in the world and you consider everything got so easy.

Retarded thing to write of and you know that.

[Vaelorian]

That's not true.
MC had some fight that people just coudn't do shit, and others that only required sheer numbers to beat them (if we have X healing+Y resists+Zdps, we can do it, so all other players that are not needed to reach that numbers "can" stay afk).
But you are talking about vanilla? So AQ40, BWL, Zul'Gurub, Naxx...yeah, alot of people did all this raids being afk...

I can say that I saw more ppl being afk in LFR than vanilla raids.

OMG this. Molten Core... yeah people could be afk. Especially during trash. /follow was a thing. I remember that one night when our GM called it, the "hardcore" of our guild did not agree and just roflstomped MC with the remaining 25 people who actually knew how to play and were determined.
During BWL... not so much really, tho at some dragon fight (can't remember the name) we stood LoS to avoid being flamed to death and we had to afk as healers to regain mana. We took turns. But that was it basically.

[socialmaker]

PTR, dungeon journal, addons, inflated ilvls, better (commited) players, 90% of people barely do heroic by the launch of the new raid.

[TheVaryag]

I just watching a video on YouTube that shows who had the 1st kill on bosses. Compare to nowadays, it used to take a months to take down a raid/dungeon bosses. But now, it takes less than a week or couple of weeks max to take down the highest difficulty aka Mythic. Is it getting easier or players are just getting good?

It's been getting easier since Cataclysm, and argubly easier since Wrath. TBC was the real dungeon/raid challenge, and Vanilla... while broken In many many ways, was still a challanging time of It's own but unfairly so. So TBC to me Is still the best and most difficult time of WoW hence why I liked It. I don't like Legion where you're given things on a silver platter, want an epic? Go jump on a vine casket, kick squirel nuts around, grow wisps as a tree, or simply press W with an AoE buff that kills everything around you until you complete world quest...

That's the most bizzare "Challange" I've ever seen on WoW, so bad. Now TBC, you wanted an epic? A specific one too with good stats? Go run the Blood Furnace on Heroic, and no It won't be easy, mobs take CCing, single-targetting you can't just aoe everything or you'd spend too much mana and die mid-fight... I don't care what anyone says about current WoW, TBC had the difficulty down and people whined that It was too difficult and then they toned It down In Wrath until It remained that way for filthy casuals to keep doable.

If you can't take down a challange, due to your bad knowledge of tactics or bad execution of theirof then you just did a mistake and have to do It again. You should be punished for not remembering the tactics and executing them Incorrectly, as well as mis-healing something, not dpsing properly, not tanking properly cause you also couldn't just aoe taunt everything... Sure TBC had many flaws as well, classes weren't all that great In some respects but It was still the best time In WoW over all followed by Wrath's systems and story, despite the difficulty spike going down, the story made up for It for me.

[Wannacookie]

Raids were mechanically easier in Vanilla. Raids were much more difficult in Vanilla. A big part of this was the newness of the game. Another, lack of proper testing of content (fuck you C'thun).

The list of things which no longer exist(in almost all instances) but had to be dealt with in Vanilla:

Filling a 40 man raid
Having said raid save when done for the night
Gearing 40 individuals when the only upgrades exist in a 40 man raid
Farming B.S resistance gear
Hit-capping your hunter for traq-shot
Trying to raid with 30 second lag (thanks Archimonde server).
Finding out mechanics for your selves
Aggro management
Assigning tank targets efficiently with 8 rotating adds and nothing to mark them with (thanks Garr)
Re-clearing lots of trash after 2 hours of wipes
Fighting for important/BiS gear on world bosses

I'm sure I could come up with more, but I think you get the point. A lot of what made Vanilla more difficult was logistical/system issues. That being said, it was indeed more difficult.

Could today's players come in with the additional 12 years of theory crafting, system knowledge, add-on knowledge, and button pushing skills and be more successful? Certainly. But the majority of today's player base wouldn't make it past Garr if forced to deal with all the accompanying challenges of a legitimate Vanilla raiding experience (Sorry, the emulated servers are not a legitimate experience). Each side of this argument has its valid points.

Beyond raiding, Vanilla players, at least those on the cutting edge, were forced to be more innovative. That's simply the nature of coming before. A better question to pose would be: If Blizzard or another company came out with a new MMO tomorrow, who would be more successful? Those on the forefront of progression in Vanilla, or those on the forefront of progression today?

As to the guy who asked when the last time anyone had seen a GM in game?

Onyxia Raid - Beta


-Wannacookie/Otisspunk

[OrcsRLame]

It's been getting easier since Cataclysm, and argubly easier since Wrath. TBC was the real dungeon/raid challenge, and Vanilla... while broken In many many ways, was still a challanging time of It's own but unfairly so. So TBC to me Is still the best and most difficult time of WoW hence why I liked It. I don't like Legion where you're given things on a silver platter, want an epic? Go jump on a vine casket, kick squirel nuts around, grow wisps as a tree, or simply press W with an AoE buff that kills everything around you until you complete world quest...

That's the most bizzare "Challange" I've ever seen on WoW, so bad. Now TBC, you wanted an epic? A specific one too with good stats? Go run the Blood Furnace on Heroic, and no It won't be easy, mobs take CCing, single-targetting you can't just aoe everything or you'd spend too much mana and die mid-fight... I don't care what anyone says about current WoW, TBC had the difficulty down and people whined that It was too difficult and then they toned It down In Wrath until It remained that way for filthy casuals to keep doable.

If you can't take down a challange, due to your bad knowledge of tactics or bad execution of theirof then you just did a mistake and have to do It again. You should be punished for not remembering the tactics and executing them Incorrectly, as well as mis-healing something, not dpsing properly, not tanking properly cause you also couldn't just aoe taunt everything... Sure TBC had many flaws as well, classes weren't all that great In some respects but It was still the best time In WoW over all followed by Wrath's systems and story, despite the difficulty spike going down, the story made up for It for me.

Wow has a variety of difficulty now. The easiest stuff in Legion is certainly not as hard as Heroic Blood Furnace. The hardest stuff makes Heroic Blood Furnace a total joke. Mythic Fallen Avatar would make the vast majority of wow players today physically cry if they had to progress on it.

In other words...

TBC had the following difficulties.

Normal
Hard

Legion has the following difficulties.

Very Easy
Easy
Normal
Hard
Very Hard
Dante Must Die! (Couldn't resist)
Autism
Mathematically Impossible
Designed for Method

Sure, TBC is harder than Legion if you compare TBC's normal and hard content to Legion's very easy and easy content, but if you compare it to Mythic ToS, which I would argue starts somewhere around Very Hard or Dante Must Die! and ends with Designed for Method, then you will see things in a very different light.

[Saiteck]

I actually sincerely would like to raid without any addons at all, I think the challenge would make the game more fun if blizzard decided to block all addon usage

[Beckers]

WoW is not easier, and people are still bad.

You just have more tools in game to find the slightly less bad (or just over-geared) people so you can actually clear stuff now.

[Kiske20]

Back in the days of TBC and Vanilla most there were many things to consider (ranging from threat generation to resistance and attunements). The game itself was more complex from that perspective, where each player had to take into consideration many factors while now you just need to know what to do and have gear for it (the almighty ilvl).

[HeiAggra]

Why all this? Bosses are harder. The thing that makes them easy is the amount of information out there.
PTR, videos, addons, player bases with several years of raids, gearing chars way easier now. All this makes the bosses to go down quicker then before.
In Vanilla and TBC you had to farm gear from dungeons, like armour penetration and resistance and so on.
Player base with 0 knowloadge about the fight, you would learn wipping. so back then would be just gear check and not hard fights.

[Echocho]

Bosses are easier. Addons are better. People tend to overgear shit. Thats the gist of it

Being able to overgear things have to be part of the game getting easier right? Bosses should be tightly tuned around roughly having the best gear from the previous tier, you shouldn't be able to overgear anything while it's current.

[Ehuehuecopter]

"wow is easier"

Method did 450 try for Avatar

OK pretty easy

[Arcrin]

well, on private servers the server first kills are 1-2 pulls for stuff like ragnaros. The game has gotten MUCH MUCH MUCH harder in a real way. what made oldschool hard was getting resist gear, gearing 40 ppl with 3 drops pr boss. and organising 40 "good" players.

but we have waaay better addons now to deal with shit and better class design but even with that overall the game is harder now, its just that top guilds dont have to farm resist gear for 4 weeks before getting kills. just look at mechanics from then and now. you can sum any vanilla and to extent tbc bosses up in what a daily hc boss is now.

also top guilds dont overgear anything they progress only "normal" guilds overgear by the time they hit end bosses. krosus, guarm, helya, guldan, avatar and so on says hi. killed within 1 sec of enrage sometimes after enrage or were tuned in a way that if any1 failed at any point you wiped.

[arel00]

Let's also keep in mind that bosses were a bugged pile of shit in vanilla and TBC, so they needed to be fixed before a kill was even possible to begin with. It's not that C'thun was the hardest thing ever... it's that it was mechanically impossible to kill before a fix. As for stuff like the Four Horsemen, requiring a single guild to field 8 warrior tanks with t3 isn't "hard", it's just extremely long to do.

[Ehuehuecopter]

Idc if mod doesn't want to talk about private server

But just fucking see how people on Anathema did Cthun the first week.

The
First
Week

Now this mean that the game is pretty easy when you know

A. How to gear (edgemaster)
B. How to do
C. MIN MAX point A and B
D. Average Skill Increase after 12 years of playing wow.
E. Add-ons - Remember that one that gave us telegraphed spell on the ground? Was banned for a reason..

Also don't forget that rogue were one of the highest APM in vanilla and was nearly 12 15, compared to now where even healer can push over 50 APM


Game wasn't easier or harder back, was just "new".

Now the actual game is ofc harder than vanilla or tbc because if class can do anything you have to model an encounter fitted for that.

Just imagine peeps in t2 doing tos myth vs peeps in t20 doing aq40

No specific role

[Deleted]

considering they've pruned about 90% of class abilities I wouldn't say players are better, the game is just easier

[Ehuehuecopter]

Sorry link your myth raid history and wow progress score for myth +

Because you are free to say bullshit but at least don't say as an lfr pro


Also this Pruning myth is one of the best bullshit ever created by the monkeys of GD and mmo c

[HeiAggra]

considering they've pruned about 90% of class abilities I wouldn't say players are better, the game is just easier

LOL in vanilla most classes had 2 or 3 button rotations

[Ehuehuecopter]

Vanilla rot was basically white dmg and some spell in between

Caster well.... Uhhhhh so much tc spamming a bolt.


But hey remember having like 484884 totem spell in your UI?

The amazing ward totem, a bis for every spec.